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Thread: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads thread

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads thread

    I have been using the search function a lot lately and I am very confused [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] as to what folks use in their SureFire turbo heads. I want to experiment but would hate to learn the hardway and instaflash those expensive SureFire lamps [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

    I have an L3 and M4 and given the 3xcell and 4xcell body and have been trying the KL6 head on various combinations, but there are far more possiblities once you use incandecent lamps with the KT4 when using regular CR123's or PILAs (168s and 150s, and with the bored-out bodies the larger PILAs and the mightly 18650 bare cells).

    From the Surefire site, we know the "normal" combinations:
    3xcell (M3T):
    - MN15
    - MN15

    4xcell (M4)
    - MN60
    - MN61

    6xcell (3xcell voltage - M6)
    - MN21
    - MN20

    For example, here Size15's does an awesome job of possible combinations of lamps on the M3 and M3T:
    Click here for the link


    From the post above the N2 should also work on the Turbo head on 3 normal cells. That post also shows the X4T LED module, and although it does sounds extremely cool, I have never seen a beamshoot of that module compared to anything else. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

    What about when using rechargables/PILA's, specially with the A19 extenders?

    What I would like to politely ask is for folks to post here what combinations of lamps and batteries they have used in their M3T, M4, and M6 (and beamshoots, if available) so that we can keep this information in a single post for easier sharing.

    Thanks, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img]
    Will
    <font color="red">Please Note:You do not have to post the whole link since in most cases it is far longer than the width of the page. You can edit your post and change it to display a short description. Thanks, Al [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]</font>

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* deranged_coder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    FWIW, I have the KT1 turbohead conversion and use it with my 6P. I also have an MN15 LA (local dealer did not have any N2 LAs in stock when I went) and an A19 extender to be able to use the turbohead in a 3x123 configuration for more oomph.

  3. #3
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    I am not qualified to comment on using batteries other than those intended by SureFire..

    TurboHead Lamp Assemblies:

    The TurboHeads (TH) Lamp Assemblies (LA) come in two main types:

    1) N-Type (old style)

    2) MN-Type (Millennium style)

    There are two main differences between the N and MN types

    1) The outer spring contact is a lot shorter than the inner spring contact on the N-Type LA compared to the MN-Type LA for which both springs are of similar length. This has implications when using the Millennium TurboHead - especially as a "CombatLight / Tactical-light or WeaponLight" because the N-Type LA's can sometimes produce less than 100% reliable contact.

    2) The filaments of N-Type LA tend to be thin and short compared to the longer and sometimes thicker filaments of the MN-Type LA. This means that the N-Type LA usually have more of a 'point-source' creating smaller, rounder beams - using more subtle fine stochastic reflectors these can project intense beams of pure light further than MN-Type LA that require more obvious stochastic finishes to produce pure beams.

    Notes on TH LA's:
    The N-Type LA's are not etched to identify them - the Lamp Assembly bases towers are coloured.
    The MN-Type LA's are laser etched to identify themselves.

    TurboHeads:

    SureFire have five main types of TurboHead (TH).

    1) "T" 3" diameter "Extended Range" TurboHead with Lexan window.
    NB: There are several known variations within this type with regards to style of rim and reflector finish. It is most often found to have a fine stochastic finish designed for the N-Type LA.

    2) "TRTH" 2.5" diameter so-called Threaded Rim TurboHead with Lexan window.
    NB: This TH features a protruding bezel rim that is threaded on the inside. Designed for the N62 LA and used by the L120M LeopardLight Lamp Module and early 12PM & 12ZM Tactical Entry Lights.

    3) "SRTH" 2.5" diameter so-called Short Rim TurboHead with Lexan window.
    NB: This TH is exclusive to SureFire Dealer "LPS" Here
    It does not feature a protruding bezel rim and has a fine stochastic finish very similar to the "T" TH and optimised for the T-Type LA - specifically the N2.

    4) "KT" 2.5" diameter TurboHead with Pyrex window.
    NB: This TH is the current version. It's reflector has a more obvious stochastic finish designed for the MN-Type LA.

    5) "Millennium TurboHead" 2.5" diameter TurboHead with Pyrex window.
    NB: This TurboHead is the current version. It's reflector has a more obvious stochastic finish designed for the MN-Type LA.

    TurboHeads replace the standard bezels of 'regular' SureFires...
    "T", "TRTH", "SRTH" and "KT" TurboHeads require an adapter collar to attach to standard bodies (for example the G2/9P etc).

    The Millennium TurboHead only interfaces with "Millennium bodies" such as the M3/L6/M4/M6 and Millennium WeaponLights.

    The TurboHead for the 9AN - the KT3 will only interface with the 9AN.
    The TurboHead for the 9N - the T3 will only interface with the 9N.

    The TurboHead Kit for the 8NX/8AX/L7 - the KT5 has a special adapter collar to attach to these bodies. Please note that the 8-Series adapter collars used T5 and KT5 have different styling but are interchangeable.

    Note that although the adapter collars of the T5/KT5 are specific to the 8-Series bodies, the TH's are the same as the kits for the standard bodies (T1/KT2 etc). Therefore the SRTH swaps with the KT5's TurboHead and be used on the 8NX for example.

    Classic TurboHead Lamp Assemblies:
    N1 - Two-SF123A (supplied in the KT1 and T1).
    N2 - Three-SF123A (supplied in the KT2 and T2. NB: Later KT2's were supplied with the MN15).
    N3 - KT3 (9AN) or T3 (9N) only.
    N4 - One-B65 NiCad Battery Stick (supplied in the T4) for 6R and 7Z bodies.
    N5 - KT5 (8NX/8AX/L7) or T5 (8X).
    N62 - Four-SF123A (supplied as part of the T-62 and L120M, and used by the 12PM & 12ZM and Classic LeopardLight.

    Lamp Assemblies for the Millennium TurboHead:
    MN15 & MN16 - Three-SF123A - M3T etc.
    MN60 & MN61 - Four-SF123A - M4 etc.
    MN20 & MN21 - Six-SF123A - M6 etc.

    Notes:

    N2, MN15 & MN16 are interchangeable (But N2 should not be used in WeaponLights or heavy-use Tactical "CombatLights" such as the M3T). Note that the MN5/MN16 beams are oval and may not produce 'perfect' beams in Classic TurboHeads due to the larger, longer, thick filaments.

    MN60, MN61 & N62 are interchangeable (But N62 should not be used in WeaponLights or heavy-use Tactical "CombatLights" such as the M4. Again, the MN60 and MN61 are better suited to TurboHeads with heavier stochastic reflector finishes such as the Millennium TurboHead and KT TurboHead.

    KT1, KT2, KT3, KT5:


    T1, T2, T3, T4, T5:

    Please Note that the adapter collar for the T5 is knurled rather than styled like the collar for the KT5. However, they are interchangeable.

    KT4 (Millennium TurboHead):


    Left to Right:
    "T"
    "SRTH"
    "TRTH"
    "KT"


    And another photo of some TurboHeads with their adapter collars removed:


    Examples:

    6P+A19+KT2
    8NX+KT5
    ("T" and "SRTH" TurboHeads also shown)


    9NT (9N+T3)
    9AN+KT3
    9AN
    Last edited by Size15's; 11-25-2011 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Updating

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al,

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

    I am simply flored - that was awesome! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    Thanks much,

    Will

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    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    This photo shows some of the differences between the reflector finishes:


    These photos show a number of different TurboHead models and "creations":




    I hesitate to post this photo:

    Notice there are two different types of spring contacts - the "N-Type" and the "MN-Type".
    Notice also that one of the MN-Type TH LA's is finished in purple rather than the current black (identified by laser etched marking) - When the Millennium Series was first released they continued with the coloured way to identify the LA. This caused confusion, not to mention with the introduction of more TH LA SureFire were running out of colours to use!

    Question
    Can you identify the two MN-Type TurboHead Lamp Assemblies in the photo?

    There are many different combinations...
    How about this one?


    Or this one?


    I guess that a lot of people will "create their own M4" using an M3T and an A19...

  6. #6
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Shelby Chan gathered together some pretty useful beamshots and included also for our interest some impressive photos of the bulbs and filaments:

    Click here

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    I run one M4 with 2 168s Pila’s and the N2 lamp
    M3T on 2 150s Pila’s with the added Pila spring
    My other M4 I added 2 A19’s and run 3 168s with the MN61
    I have been cautioned about running 3 like that but I have not had any problems doing so, thus far. YMMV
    Topper [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al,

    Thanks for the additional pictures and for the tip on listing links - I understand what you mean [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Will

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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al, that is a wonderful presentation, and nicely executed.

    Bill

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    Flashaholic* larryk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    I have owned in the past a M6 and a M4. The m6 had more of a flood beam and the M4 had a tight beam. My question, is it posible to get the tight beam of the M4 with a M6 ? Larry.

  11. #11
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    larryk,

    The reflector inside the Millennium TurboHead can be removed (although the bezel is sealed and it is not meant to be dismantled) and therefore there is scope to for a modified reflector to be created and used.

    Not the easiest thing to do but possible with enough time, money and skills.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* sween1911's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al,

    Aren't the reflectors/housings for the Millenium Turbohead (KT4 in M3T/M4/M6) all the same part? I would think that the lamp assemblies are what's responsible for any difference in beam pattern and not the reflector itself. Perhaps shimming the lamp assembly when it's installed in the reflector might change focus? Maybe using a thin (heat resistant) washer over the lamp to sit on that shoulder where it contacts the reflector. Anyone ever tried anything like this?

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Looking at the close tolterance and close matching of metal contact between the lamp and the turbo head, the bulb is designed to transfer heat to the head for longevity, so if any shim is used, it should transfer this heat to the head.

    Will

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* sween1911's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Maybe one of those thin bronze washers used for bushings/bearings. That should transfer the heat nicely. Would have to find one the right size.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* leukos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al,
    I'll nominate you for "Post of the Week" if you would like! Thanks for the pics and info. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    In a parabolic reflector there is only one focal point - quite what part of the parabola you use depends on a variety of things but you've seen how making the reflector deeper (KL6) or wider (TurboHead) can increase the intensity of the beam.

    Different reflector curves (other than parabolic) can also be used.

    If you shim the Lamp Assembly you are changing it's position in the reflector - defocusing it. If you want to change the light distribution but retain the most efficient light output (use as much light as possible to form the beam) then it follows the reflector has to change shape. Well that's my understanding (and I admit I don't know anything really).

    Thanks for your kind words guys.

    Al [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Flashaholic* larryk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    My experience with other lights, mostly spotlights is that you would need to move the bulb a little further forward into the reflector. using shims would bring the bulb backwards making it even more of a flood pattern. Larry.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al,

    You are not really from this world, are you? Where in the solar system did you originate?

    Just a guess but I'm thinking it was probably pretty bright.

    Jokes aside, the preceding information you so freely gave is really astonishing.

    Thanks,
    Vhyper

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Al, how about making this a sticky thread? It is a great resource and should not get buried. Move it to reviews?
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img]

    Bill

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    Flashaholic* Pydpiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Seems to be alot of interest in turboheads over the past little while, this thread deserves to be resurected.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Speaking of which:
    I've been compiling a list of all "mini turbo heads" (roughly 1.5 to 2 inches, or 38 to 51mm) available on stock flashlights or as separate parts. 90 percent of them are for use with incandescents, but a few, like the Aleph 3, are for LEDs. Where should I post my list--General? or Incandescents?

  22. #22
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    My D3/SRTH is on the way! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Edit: Ok Size 15's. After reading some of the many threads on THs...IMO it seems that the best combination of a focused beam, good throw and runtime would be the SRTH/N2.

  23. #23
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Hmm... I'll think about making it stickie...
    Better I think for now to keep the topic alive with posts of interest!

    Al [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  24. #24

    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
    Luxman said:
    My D3/SRTH is on the way! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I plan on doing a similar setup in the near future (read: as money allows) - let me know how yours turns out! Thanks!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    BlueGerbil,
    I have not tried the D3/SRTH/N2 outside yet..but wall test shows a very nice tight beam with slightly oval shape. As for wall throw, no contest compared against the M3 even with the 225 lumen MN11. M3 spot is MUCH larger and MUCH less defined. I can easily see the SRTH/N2 spot defined anywhere within the M3/MN11 spot. I wish I had the M3 KT4/MN16 system to compare against... Since my goal was throw, and not a lot of light covering an area, I am very happy with the D3/SRTH/N2 system...and I like having the extra runtime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
    Like another CPF'er told me, I can always get the KT4, but maybe I should get the SRTH while I still can...

  26. #26
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    OK I thought I would gain clarity by reading this post - but alas I am confused again.

    I want to buy (I guess) a KT2 to be used with both a C3 and a C2. What lamp assemblies can I use in this assembly?

    Also what other THs would fir the C3/C2/6P/G2(ha ha)/etc series?

  27. #27
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    The KT2 has the N2 lamp for three-SF123A batteries.
    Therefore you can use the KT2 on the C3 straight away.

    The KT1 has the N1 lamp for two-SF123A batteries.
    Therefore you can use the KT1 on the C2/6P/G2 straight away.

    If you get the KT2 for the C3 you use the KT TurboHead and purchase the N1 lamp and use it on the C2/6P/G2.

    Al

  28. #28
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Are there any other lamps that I could use with this TH and 2/3 battery configuartions? Would my money be better spent on a different TH? Obviously is my goal is to maximize TH benifit based on all the lights that I have.

    Can I use the MN15 &amp; MN16 in a 3 cell configuartion with a C3 and KT2?

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* leukos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    "Can I use the MN15 &amp; MN16 in a 3 cell configuartion with a C3 and KT2?"

    Yes.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre

    Thanks for the info - I don't want to buy the TH and be limited to a 100 lumen bulb. I will want to run that 225 lumen bulb and have some fun!

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