Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEASE!

OK CPF experts, I need your help! Lots of research by me has not turned up a clear winner.

I need to purchase a Digital Camera for work (Not for me personally, but for a multiple users in a large dept). My department is a large Nutrition & Food Services dept for a large hospital (I am the IS person for the dept), and we need a Digital Camera for the Dept.

We do lots of special high end catering events, and lots of special foods etc.

The camera will almost always be used indoors, and will be mostly used for:
-Close ups of plates of food
-Special event activity
-Taking pictures in a very large kitchen, of production staff preparing food etc.

Picture output:
Posting on the Web, Screen Size maximum size
Printing 4x6 or slightly larger
Occasionally printing on 8½x11

Price Range 250-500
Less would be good, only because I think that the camera has a high chance of getting lost or damaged.

Here are my requirements:
-Rugged, durable sturdy (wont break if occasionally dropped or if roughly handled or stuck in a pocket)
-at Least 5x OPTICAL ZOOM (prefer 10-x-12x for close ups of chefs cooking and event activites without having to be "in their face" when taking the picture.)
-Digital zoom does not matter, it will be turned off.
-4 AA batteries (no propritiary batteries) I want to be able to buy a bunch of NiMh 2500 MHa AA's and not worry if they get lost during an event. Also, when someone says "grab the camera" and the batteries are not charged up, I want to be able to use Alkline batteries in a pinch, while the NiMh's are getting re-charged.
(Will be posting a seperate post regarding Li-Ion alternatives for 2AA batteries)
-Smaller, so that it could be carried in a pocket.
-IMAGE STABALIZER for still shots (I think this is important!)
-3MP or better, but as the trend is for more MP, 4 or 5 MP would be better
-Made by a REAL Camera company, not a "johnny come lately" brand. (Like a computer company etc)
-Mostly point and shoot, and zoom, I do not need a bunch of buttons that people in my dept will not use. It can have options, but must have a nice "point and shoot" automatic function, as who knows who will be using the camera.

I do know about Steve's Digicam site:
Steve's Digicams THE BEST CAMERAS

Here are some of the cameras that I like, and while all of these are very nice, "winners", none of them seem to be the absolutely perfect camera for my dept.

Although I have always liked Olympus, it looks like I am leaning towards a Canon or Panasonic.

KODAK EASYSHARE Z740
z740 review at Steves Digicam

Olympus C-7000 Zoom

OLYMPUS C-5500

Canon PowerShot S1 IS
steves-digicams.com review of the Canon S IS

My personal favoite, (the one I will probably buy for myself:
PowerShot S2 IS: Canon's new monster zoom compact
Canon S2 IS Home page

Konica Minolta DiMAGE Z5

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5

Olympus_C_765
Olympus Camedia C-5500/C-55 Sport Zoom Digital Camera

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ1 Digital Camera
or its sister, the DMC-LC2
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ2

Olympus Stylus 410 Digital

There, that about covers all the major players. All of these are great cameras, but none of them seem to meet all of my criteria.

The Panasonic DMC-LZ2 might be a good choice, but, as nice as Panasonic is, it is not a "camera" company.

My personal favorite seems to be the Canon S2 IS, but as much as I like it, it might be a tad too expensive (still have to add extra memory and rechargable batteries for ANY camera), and might be too complex for multiple users.

If I could magicly create my own camera, it would be this:

The physical body of the Olympus Stylus 410 Digital (Metal, small, lightweight, splash proof) with a 10-12x high quality glass Zoom lens, and Image Stabalizer, with 2 or 4 AA batteries as the power source and took standard, inexpensive media memory cards.

But that camera does not exist, as far as I know!

And remember, this is not asking what is "the best camera for me", but rather, the perfect camera for multiple users in a large dept, when lots of other things are going on.

So any suggestions?

Hey Budd,

Here's my perspective on this quest. I am a former professional photographer, and while "hospital" isn't synonymous with fancy night out, you go on to mention high-end catering and special events. So, it sounds like you want the pictures for both record keeping and marketing purposes. And you mention it will almost always be indoors.

Thus, the key problem will be light. Now maybe your dining rooms have great big windows, or your kitchens have terrific and even lighting. But, let's imagine the worst case scenario, it's an evening black tie dinner for docs. In that case, none of these cameras have flash units that will put out enough light for beautiful pictures.

Even though you don't need high resolution for web pages or a pamphlet or brochure, you need enough light. And I think that suggests an additional flash unit that sits in a hotshoe on top of the camera. That will give you much cleaner, brigher, flattering light for food pictures, people pictures, everything.

The flash on all small digicams is 1) too close to the lens and 2) in the same plane as the lens. This will result in flat, unattractive lighting and red eye. You've seen it yourself, everything looks flat and one-dimensional in the pictures, as well as beady red eyes on people.

I'm not saying you need an expensive professional camera, or photographic skills. Really, just a camera that takes an additional flash on top, and the flash unit that swivels, and you will get infinitely better pictures that with any integrated flash.

For example, these cameras do this:

Canon G3
Canon G5
Nikon 5700
Olympu 7070

These are just examples, and I would even recommend buying a used camera with a hotshoe, which would only be a few hundred dollars, to get this added capability. Outside, in the park or backyard, any digicam will be fine, but for indoors, and low lighting, I think you need more light.

What do you think?

daloosh

ilovemypanosioc fz15 but itmay be over kill for you. since ya would nevver need such a big zoom

daloosh,

Thanks for your reply! Very detailed and observant.

Actually, my Hospital has two staff photographers that work full time as Photographers, and they have some real high end equipment, so when the CEO is posing with the Govenor, or Dr. Cooley is posing with former first lady, etc, our professional Photographer is taking the pictures.

Actually, I never knew that SLR cameras existed, until I saw one of our Photograohers using one, about 7-8 years ago.

So our dept, while we might take a pic or two at that "black tie event" during the main event, (and we do several of those a year), we would not be the primary photographer. Rather, we would be taking pictures of the entrees, the table presentation, maybe the presentation chefs, etc, at that black tie event.

Rather, Plate presentation, kitchen shots, setup of events, employees doing presentation cooking, or prep work in the kitchen, and similar pictures will be taken.

We are currently developing hundreds (actually it is over a thousand) of new recipes, and we want to take pictues of the presentation, and put in a book, and online, on our intranet, the pictures.

While I like that Canon S2 IS, I am thinking that a Kodak or a Panasonic DMC-LZ2 might be a "better fit" for the dept.

Just fyi, we have 200+ employees in our dept, and my Hospital is St. Luke's Episcopal Healthcare System , so we are not your average community Healthcare facility.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

Perhaps not as well known or popular for digital still cameras as the likes of Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Konica Minolta, etc., Panasonic has been making some serious inroads into the market. The use of Leica brand (or designed) lenses has helped bring some "cred" to the brand in this segment. The FZ series of digicams featuring the Leica 35-420mm (35mm equivalent) f2.8 lens has gotten some very positive reviews, and have even influenced the design of recent models by the "real camera" makers. Of course they've been making video imaging gear for years, so it's probably safe to assume they have a good idea of how to get those images on to a memory card.

I've got an "old" (circa 2003) FZ10 that does an superb job even though it's "only" four megapixels. Having previously owned Canon gear exclusively, I was reluctant to go with a Panasonic, but I don't regret it now. I'd say they're worth keeping on the shopping list. What ever your choice, I hope works out well for everyone!

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

[ QUOTE ]
sotyakr said:
Perhaps not as well known or popular for digital still cameras as the likes of Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Konica Minolta, etc., Panasonic has been making some serious inroads into the market. The use of Leica brand (or designed) lenses has helped bring some "cred" to the brand in this segment. The FZ series of digicams featuring the Leica 35-420mm (35mm equivalent) f2.8 lens has gotten some very positive reviews, and have even influenced the design of recent models by the "real camera" makers. Of course they've been making video imaging gear for years, so it's probably safe to assume they have a good idea of how to get those images on to a memory card.

I've got an "old" (circa 2003) FZ10 that does an superb job even though it's "only" four megapixels. Having previously owned Canon gear exclusively, I was reluctant to go with a Panasonic, but I don't regret it now. I'd say they're worth keeping on the shopping list. What ever your choice, I hope works out well for everyone!

[/ QUOTE ]hey i was al;wauys wondering whats the diference between a fz 10 and fz15 do you know? there both 4 megapixel and 12 x zoom

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

I've been doing some research lately also. I think 4Mp is enough but a lot of the newer cameras are coming out in 5Mp versions so choose which one you can afford.

The Canon S1 IS looks like a real good one, but behind the rest at only 3Mp. The S2 IS might just be the ticket. I'm going to look at that one myself.

Otherwise the KonicaMinolta Z3 or Z5 look good. They have all of the features you stated including image stabilizaion. I might get the Z3 just because it is a bit cheaper right now. They can also mount an external flash which I agree would be real helpful.

The Panasonic LZ models also look good and reviews put their image quality at better than the KonicaMinolta.

If you intend to use flash indoors then you don't need image stabilization in which case the Fuji 5100 looks good. It seems to me to be a bit simpler for the less technical user.

I would tell your users to NOT drop the camera, and guard it with their life so it doesn't get lost/stolen.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

raggie, the FZ15 is a newer model that has the same lens and 4 megapixel imaging chip as the FZ10, plus some updated electronics and a slightly different body (larger grip), but minus a couple features like the hot shoe for an external flash. The FZ10 was replaced by the 5 megapixel FZ20.

[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:


[/ QUOTE ]hey i was al;wauys wondering whats the diference between a fz 10 and fz15 do you know? there both 4 megapixel and 12 x zoom

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

I'm not really qualified to comment on the cameras, but I'd definitely agree with your preference for an AA based camera. With the new Energizer 15 minute chargers they can now be turned around with surprising speed - if someone says grab the camera, you aren't going to be going through dozens of alkalines while the cells take their eternity-and-a-half to charge. Murphy will always ensure the batteries are dead when you need them, a 15 minute system will put some control back in your hands /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The Energizer seems to be able to charge everything I throw at it, too, so no proprietary batteries required. Stick to the good stuff by Sanyo and you should be fine.

What I do know is that my next camera will be powered by AA NiMH /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

the number one things to consider is digital zoom is usless ya can just use phtoshop or something else to get better results also dont buy a camera on megaipxel alone i rarher have a good 2 megpixel caemra with good lens then a 7 megpixel with bad lenes.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

Raggie33 -
-Digital Zoom is worthless!
-2 MP with a good lens is better than a 7 MP w Bad Lens

I agree with both points!

Everything I have read says to "turn off" the digital zoom, and do it later with photoshop or whatever.

That is one of the good things about high MP cameras and lots of memory. If you set your camera to the highest resolution, and have lots of memory to hold lots of pictures, you can do lots of editing later.

Also, good point about the lens. This is why I wanted a digital camera by a "camera" company and not a computer company.

However, "sotyakr" comments above about the Panasonic:

==========
The use of Leica brand (or designed) lenses has helped bring some "cred" to the brand in this segment. The FZ series of digicams featuring the Leica 35-420mm (35mm equivalent) f2.8 lens has gotten some very positive reviews, and have even influenced the design of recent models by the "real camera" makers. Of course they've been making video imaging gear for years, so it's probably safe to assume they have a good idea of how to get those images on to a memory card.
===============

Make me lean even more towards the Panasonic for work.

For me personally, I still kind of like the Canon S2 IS. After this is out for a few months (and the price is discounted more!) I might purchase this one for me!

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

Oh, and the thing about MegaPixels (MP),

If you are taking pictures to put on the web, or to make 4x6 or 5x7 prints, and all you do is "point, shoot, and print" (maybe a little red eye reduction) a 3 or 4 MP camera is all you need, the rest is just not used.

Actually a higher MP camera could work against "point and shoot and print" users, as each picture, if set on max resolution, will take up more space in the camera, and the user will be able to store LESS pictures on the camera!

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

I own an Olympus C5050 and a FL-40 external flash. It is only a 3X zoom, but taking 5MP photos you have plenty of resolution to crop heavily and still print good 4x6 or 5x7 prints.

Using a 1G flash card (approx 300 5MP jpg photos) and 2300mAH AA batteries I can basically shoot all day without changing batteries. When we went to Hawaii I took and viewed over 200 pictures in one day and still didn't need the extra batteries I took along.

There are a lot of good choices but I sure can't complain about the set-up I have.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

+1 on the post above regarding lighting/flash.

you CAN NOT expect get a decent photo of anything in low to moderate lighting with a small camera flash. In the best case, you end up with a brightly lit subject against a dark/black background.

More often, you end up with a flat or washed-out subject in the center, a dim area surrounding it, and black around that.

Then there's reflections, red-eye, etc. Very very hard to get presentable photos with the mini-flash...

For the kinds of photography you're talking about (trying to make food look nice on a plate, multiple people doing things in a large space, etc), lighting will be your #1 concern, and it's the #1 problem for pocketable cameras.

Run, don't walk, to the list above of cameras that have an accessory flash shoe, and buy an older/cheaper one of those, and a halfway decent external flash.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

I bought a bunch of Panasonic FZ1 (12x stabilized optical zoom) and Fuji S5000 (10x optical zoom) for gifts last Christmas. The following article sold me on the FZ1:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/030807.htm

This photo was shot with an FZ1 at maximum zoom, no tripod:

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

A couple of points.

Although it's great to be able to do things yourself, sometimes the results needed call for a pro (or pretty knowledgable person) with the right tools for the job.

If you get a point-n-shoot for the department and someone gets 'tagged' to snap some shots, the results will most likely look like some snapshots. Flat lighting, red-eye, poor composition, etc are easy to get unless someone knowedgeable is wielding the camera. Get someone photographically knowledgable -AND- with some decent tools and you'll get better results.

Close-ups are not that easy to do right. Food still-life shots take some work to get the arrangement and lighting just right to get the photo to look good. By good, I'm thinking glossy magazine ad good. You mentioned putting the images into a book, so some pretty good quality shots would be needed there.

And there is a HUGE difference in the quality difference needed between a 4x6 and an 8x10 print/image. A decent 3MP camera should be enough for the 4x6 shots, for 8x10 (especially if you do some editing and cropping) I'd go for more pixels (or a decent digital SLR).

And you'll have to remember to set the image resolution on the camera settings to max for decent larger pictures.

I agree with your requirements wish list as reasonable, you seem to have come up with a decent set of 'wants' for the camera. The ruggedness is probably the most iffy.

The moon photo by will42 is pretty amazing for a 12x HANDHELD shot, but being critical, the shot is soft.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

[ QUOTE ]
MoonRise said:
A couple of points.

Although it's great to be able to do things yourself, sometimes the results needed call for a pro (or pretty knowledgable person) with the right tools for the job.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks,

As I noted, our Hospital already has two professional photographers.

However, at special functions, they would be taking pictures of the people, or main event etc, and would not be available for such "unimportant" shots such as kitchen prep or plating etc.

Boy, we were just about completely sold on the Panasonic DMC-LZ2, up until we read that there is no viewfinder, only the LCD panel.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

Any chance you can look at used equipment? I have a Canon G2 which I think would work well for what you are trying to do. The newist version of this is the Canon G6 which looks like about $540 street price. The gotcha of course is that is a bit higher than your target price and what you really want is something a bit cheaper so you can factor in a flash and other accessories.

The cool thing about the "G" line is that even tho it is not an SLR, you can get a wide angle and a macro lens. It also has a hotshoe for a flash.

So, I'd see if you could swing something like:

-Canon G2
-Decent flash
-spare battery
-external battery charger
-Decent tripod (if you can't borrow an existing one)

If you can swing it, you could also pick up:

-wide angle lens
-lens adapter
-macro lens

Notes:

For food you probably don't need the macro lens. The camera has a macro mode already - you only need the macro lens for real small stuff.

I know it isn't AA batteries, but the li-ion battery pack it uses works very well. If you had a second battery and an external charger I don't think you'd miss it.

-john

Edit: Here's one I found on eBay. Looks like they are going for about $150 - $200 bucks. Disclaimer - I don't know anything about this particular seller. I was just looking for an example price.

Edit2: FWIW, are some sample shots from my G2 (all slightly reduced quality JPGs): White Lilly (1.4M); Chelsea "reflecting"; Sophie "demondog" (1.3M)

Edit3: FWIW, Prints from this camera (on a Canon i960) look photo-realistic at 8x10. Great printer too, BTW.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

Hey, I hate to hijack the thread but it's a pretty on topic hijack. Do any of you have experience with the Canon S1 IS and a panasonic lumix dmc-fz5? I'm looking for a camera for personal use, family pics, vacations, Stars if this is possible, outdoor stuff. The S1 looks like it will do all I want (at about 115$ cheaper) but I don't want something that will irritate me cuz it's slow from shot to shot and the MP difference (3.2 vs 5) has me wondering too. I've read that the viewfinder on the lumix is poor in low light but the camera generally takes great pictures.

I'm also wondering if I should wait a couple months till the canon S2 IS is out to see what happens pricewise to these cameras.

Re: Digital Camera for Work-Need Suggestions PLEAS

I will chip in my opinion for the Canon G? series with an external flash. Even though you don't think so, flash is going to be one of the most important features to you. And external is the ONLY way to get a good picture. With most pictures being indoors with flash, the stabilizer is not really needed. And if you take pictures outdoors, the external flash becomes almost MORE important. On a sunny day, an on camera flash could never fill in the shadows. So an external is of paramount importance to you.

Canon G5s or G3s are going fairly cheap now if you find them new. Or used is even cheaper.