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Thread: McE2S for C/M bodies - prototype evaluated !!!

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default McE2S for C/M bodies - DIY guide included

    EDIT: Since more and more folks are discovering this thread and have questions as to what the Shoope sells and how to put it together, I am re-writing this top post with detail instructions and reusing the photos that I posted later on this thread

    To start, let make sure that we use the same terminology. The stock complete, OEM switch on the left is the standard press-to-activate Surefire switch. This is what we are going to call through this DIY the “host”. The assembled switch on the right side is what you buy from the Shoope and is what is going to replace the guts of the standard Surefire switch:


    Again, just to be extra clear, this is what you are buying from the Shoope:



    So we basically have to remove the OEM guts of the OEM host:
    1) Remove the spring:


    2) Pull out the core. Just grab very firmly and pull out with force:



    3) We then remove the retaining ring. This simply unscrews out counter-clockwise. Some folks have reported that they have to heat up the part a little for this to start moving:



    Once you are done, this is what it looks like (new guts on top)


    4) Now you must enlarge the hole in the retaining ring. Just make it large enough that the new switch guts goes in but small enough that the o-ring can keep the guts from falling out:



    This is how the new parts will go back into the host:




    5) Put the outer rubber button back inside the host, screw the "modified" retaining ring back into the host, and finally press in the new guts into the enlarged hole in the retaining ring (if done properly, once "in" it should not fall out by gravity alone):


    Here is what it looks like when you are done:


    You should end up with some useless parts as shown here:


    6) Pat yourself in the back for a job well done

    7) Screw the new two-level "C" switch into your favorite LED-driven "C" or "M" host and have fun

    Will
    Oct 1st, 2005

    ************************************************** **************
    Don,

    I saw in some older tread that you had made a small adapter ring out of aluminum that would allow your McE2S for "E" bodies to be fitted to "C" and "M" bodies switches. I respect that fact that there might not be enough business to justify making the adapter, but can you please share with me the dimensions of such ring so that I can at least make one for myself? Maybe others here would try to make their own as well [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Thanks in advance,
    Will
    (who would love to have one of these on my current KL6 and future KL5!)

    EDIT: Look towards the bottom of the tread for an evaluation I just posted of a prototype two-level switch for "C" bodies provided by no other than Don himself [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img]
    Last edited by wquiles; 10-01-2005 at 04:49 PM. Reason: needed to clarify how to put together

  2. #2

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Will,
    I have been giving this more thought and believe I have a simplier solution than that I have previously shown. I need some new parts to confirm and I ordered them but either ordered the wrong size or was shipped the wrong size! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] I am still doing some investigation. Provided I don't run into any conflict in IP or previous agreements, I will either provide a solution or at the very least some viable suggestions.

    I hope you have a classic size LOTC switch for host?!?

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    [ QUOTE ]
    McGizmo said:
    I hope you have a classic size LOTC switch for host?!?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, I do. I am ready [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Thanks to the 3W BugOutGear module, I suspect that this "new" McC2S (replaced the E with C !!!) would be a great hit with the several hundred folks who have ordered these little neat modules, let alone every KL5 and KL6 owner out there.

    Thanks to your McE2S I have come to realize that you "don't" need full power; not all of the time. Yes, high power is great, but a simple, elegant switch like the McE2S makes my KL4 head incredibly versatile. Every single person I show my KL4/McE2S is like "darn! - that IS a nice little light!".

    Yes, I also have the U2, which is the high water mark for a simple, reliable, adjustable light, but for most folks two levels is all you really "need" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Thanks,
    Will

  4. #4

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Hi Will,
    Sorry it took so long to get back to this! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

    Anyway, I realized that it was posible for a larger O-ring to be used on the main body of the 2S module for centering and isolation in the battery tube. This meant that a simple machined disk could be soldered to the PCB to extend its diameter. Actually a larger diameter PCB could be made at a lower cost.



    I suppose we should see if Wayne would be interested in the project. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] He could sell the larger PCB and O-ring as a modder's kit for the "Classic" .

    The newer style LOTC's have a rivet that connects the main body to a plastic button which is on the other side of the jam nut. To take this apart, you grab the main body with some needle nose pliers after removing the spring and just pull it out of the cap:



    You then need to remove the jam nut to get the plastic button out and the nut needs to have its hole opened up to 3/8" diameter (drill or rattail file or dremel):



    The older style LOTC's can also be modified but you may have varying levels of success in removing the original components.

    I tried one of these versions on a KL6 (30 ohms) and it works great. I also tried one in a black 6P that is hosting a KL3 and it also works real nice (60 ohms chosen).

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    [ QUOTE ]
    McGizmo said:
    Hi Will,
    Sorry it took so long to get back to this! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No worries dude - this is great news [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img]

    So all we need now is to convince Wayne? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Do you by any chance have the dimensions handy for the new overal diameter of the PWB and the new O-ring size?

    Will

  6. #6

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    The New PCB or an extension disk should be about .800" in diameter. The O-ring I used is a dash 203.

    If you want to E-mail me your mailing address, I'll send you an O-ring and one of these modified PCB's with disk. Let me know what resistor total you want too. (First one for you is free and then bend over!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img] )

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* tylerdurden's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Hmm, now I wish I hadn't sold my M2! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* tylerdurden's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Well, now I have an excuse to buy the L5. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Great idea! Mine's ready to go.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Don,

    Email sent - thanks much [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I will report as soon as I get it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Will

  12. #12

    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Will,
    In comming......... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Tyler,
    You might consider the new KL3 as well; pretty cool!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: McE2S (two stage switch) for C/M bodies?

    Thanks - I will report back when I get it and will add photos and Lux measurements on my lights [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Will

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Don,

    First, thanks again for trusting me with your prototype. I hope that my evaluation/photos is enough "reward" in the short term. Longer term, I am ready to buy at least 3 additional units right away - PayPal ready!

    So lets get started. Here is the prototype switch unit that I got from Don to test/evaluate next to my L6:


    A closer view:





    Here I start the dissasembly of the host switch per the high-level directions from Don:








    Here is a good image of the inner workings of the factory switch next to the prototype:


    Per Don's instructions, we need to make this whole larger. As the material is rather soft, I decided against the dremel tool this time and used a rat file:


    In no time, the whole is ready:
    EDIT: Make the whole just big enough for the top to slide with resistance from the o-ring as this is what will keep the module from falling out.


    And here I put it back together:






    Of course, now I have some useless parts laying around [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]


    Lets start with the testing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Please note that Don sent me this particular prototype with a 30Ohm resistor as I requested for the "LOW". All photos taken with a Canon Rebel XT with the kit lens set to 18mm, and manual exposure of 1 sec @ F5.6 with automatic white balance. Wall is about 15 feet from the camera and my daughter's toys are about 1 foot away from the wall.

    Here is a G2 with a BOG 3W module modded by me with a UX1L LuxIII running with the stock driver on two Rechargable CR123 cells. First on LOW then on HIGH:



    Here is my L6 (modded for 1A) on LOW and then HIGH



    And finaly, here is my M4 with a TurboHead and an LED module built by me using a LuxV WX1T with a Downboy @ 1A, LOW then HIGH:



    For comparison only, here is my U2 on level 1 and then on level 6 (using the stock switch - not using the prototype):



    Comments: The prototype worked great and it was very easy to install. It worked with 3 different drive circuits so I would expect that like the original McE2S this one will have wide use on any/all "C" bodies that drive an LED.

    The only things I would like as improvements are minor, but worth mentioning:
    - there is nothing holding the "module" inside the host tailcap. I don't know how to "fix" this, but I would gladly buy at least 3 more - I like it that much!
    - The stock spring presure was a little bit too high for my taste, but easily fixed. I have done so as well on my EDC that uses a McE2S switch (it is literaly a hair trigger which is fine since I have the flat top with its recessed button).
    - It took more than a full turn to go from high to low, but again, this is something I also modified on my McE2S (its about a 1/2 turn on mine).
    - The modified tailcap did not go as deep into the body compared to the stock switch before it would turn on. You can see the larger-than-normal gap in the photo above of the L6 with the extra parts right below it - note the lanyard and the gap. The o-rings were still engaged, so no worries here as nothing is compromised.

    So how is it? This thing rocks - I want (scratch that), I NEED 3 more of these [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img]

    All we need now is to convince Don (and Wayne?) to get this into production [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Thanks again Don for your trust - you are awesome [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    Will

  15. #15

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Will,
    Great work up here! Now to comment on the improvements suggested.
    1) If you opened the bore in the jam nut to 3/8" ID, the O-ring on the button should retain the module in the tailcap and provide pseudo lock out as well. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]
    2) the main body can be modified into a hair triger as you have suggested and you can use the original SF spring instead of the one with the McE2S module as it may be softer in some iterations.
    3) If Wayne will do the larger diameter PCB (I sent him the dwg but he has to turn it into a real file that can be used), this will result in a module that is not as tall as this proto so the cap will come down further on the battery tube before the switch engages.

    BTW, if you have a Pelican M6-LED, you will find that this switch should work on it as well. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img] (compresses the spring more but does work)

    So bottom line, bug Wayne! I did my part! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif[/img]

    I have some PD's to build if he would send me the converters! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif[/img]

  16. #16

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Just did the layout. I need to find a place that can do this thickness board.

    Wayne

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Don,

    1 - I made the hole a tiny bit past the size of the o-ring on top - that is why it falls off. The hole needs to be tigher around the O-ring - good to know. I edited the post above to note than for future modders [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    2&3 - Excellent!

    Looks like the road is paved for this to become a reality. I am more than happy to provide not only the photos listed but any additional testing/photos that either you or Wayne need to make this a go - just ask [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Will

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Guys -

    Great work!

    I presently have alum stock in the lathe for adapting this concept to the G2. The G2 needs a different top button to work with the existing tailcap body and rubber switch cover.

    I have already turned out the brass adapter ring to adapt the resistor board to the "classic" configuration, but need to finish the top button piece to make it work on the G2 (non-lockout tailcap).

    I *think* I can make this work, but will have to try it out to verify for certain. Too bad the new LOTC's aren't quite available as replacements yet [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

    Again, nice work guys!

    John

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Don't send any more stuff to Will - he doesn't take enough pictures. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Guilty as chaged [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Will

  21. #21
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    the M4 hi-beam is awesome!!!

    joe

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* leukos's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    I'm in for one of these whenever they are available. Hopefully it can work in the G2Z tailcap too! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Would this fit in a U2 tailcap?

    If so, do you think it would work?
    And give the U2 two brightness ranges?

  24. #24

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    jtice,
    One of the first things I tried was the 2 stage on the U2! High and low versions of preselected level. Should be cool! Not! Didn't work. The light flickers on low switch level. No joy! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* jtice's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh CRAP! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif[/img]

    oh well [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
    that would have been SWEEEEET though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    thanks for the reply Don

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Still, the new switch works with the L6, my LED module on the M4, and the 3W LED module from BOG, so there are plenty of C/M hosts other than the U2 which would benefit from this [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Will

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* leukos's Avatar
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    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Any updates on these? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  28. #28

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img] I'll check! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  29. #29

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    The boards have been ordered. Just waiting for them now. I think they were ordered with a 10 working day schedule. Has it been two weeks?

    I usually get email notfication when they ship. Haven't seen it yet, but, I expect one any day now.

  30. #30

    Default Re: New prototype switch arrived !!!

    Update:

    The boards arrived yesterday. After inspection I noticed I goofed the inside hole size. I'll have to scrap these and re-order correcting the hole diameter.

    Sorry for the delay, I'll keep you posted on any updates.

    Wayne

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