General rant on battteries

Firstly, the Duracell vs Energizer issue, something which I've been trolling around the net for info.

While it looks like everyone has their own conclusions as to which one was better , in EVERYTHING I found, three things occured to me:

1) Standard Energizers do better at low current drains than standard Duracells. This means that for non-regulated 1-5 LED lights, Energizers will do better.

2) When it comes to higher drain stuff (say 300-500mA), Duracells perform significantly better.

3) As for the premium high-power alkalines, the Duracell Ultra slaughters the Energizer E2, standard Duracells and Energizers. So for high power applications (like halogens torches), Duracell Ultras may actually give you more light/$ than other 3.

Also it looks like Ray-O-Vac has decided to enter the premium alkaline race with their new Max Plus range. They claim its 11% better (and up to 28% better in high-drain devices) but only time will tell.

Plus, RayOVac also has some new NiMH battery design called IC3. Basically they claim that its capable of charging in 15 minutes and of course even more power.
http://www.rayovac.com/ic3_pdfs/ic3bro_download.shtml

Also it looks like Toshiba's new alkaline has disappeared from the face of the earth. I've tried emailing them but I didn't get a response. There was also some talk about the heavy-metal content (Nickel) of these batteries causing some environmental concerns.

Finally (yes I've got a lot to say), I've found an interesting fact on rechargable alkalines (BIG, Grandcell, Renewal, etc)... they're NOT rechargable!

While I can't be bothered reading up on the chemistry behind it, here's something I lifted from USENET:


-----------------------------
When Rayovac first brought out the Renewable Alkalines, there was a LOT of discussion about whether or not alkalines can be recharged. The fact it, they can't. The chemical reaction, just like in carbon-zinc
batteries, is non-reversable.

However, they can be put into a charger (both alkalines and carbon-zinc) and "renewed", and both will act as though they've been recharged; that is, they will deliver more power. However, the renewal
process is only breaking down certain chemical bonds that act as internal shorts, reducing the power available.
-----------------------------

Weird huh?!

Just for the record I try to use NiMh batteries for everything but flashlights, especially LED...Why? Well because LED lights land so long the batteried would self discharge faster than the flashlight! Actually, it is not good to pull NiMh batteries as low as flashlights pull them

Now, as far as Energizer vs Duracell I'll tell you what I use...neither. I use rayovacs, $10 for 24 at Lowes (Can't even get them that cheap at Costco last time I checked) that comes to something like a little less than .50 per battery. AA and AAAs. You can get I think 12 Cs or Ds for your $10 and 8 9V batteries. Also (And this is pure marketing, but it's icing on the cake for me) they come in nice, reclosable containers that keep the batteries all together, I know I know you could take that container and fill it with ANY brand battery but the Ray-O-Vacs are cheap and the really are decent batteries so...

The cheap Costco batts are back. $11.99 for 48...

For this week only,

Wallgreen has Duracell 8PK-AA/AAA (or 4PK-D/C) on sale for $5.99 for 2 which is not a bad price.

K-Mart has coupons for buy 2 8PK-AA/AAA and get $5.00 off. K-Mart also has coupons for buy 2 and get 3rd free.

So I went to K-Mart and tried to price match Wallgreen price and still use K-Mart coupons. It did not work at the 1st K-Mart but the manager at the 2nd store eventually gave in and let me use 3 coupons. But he would not let me combine both types of coupons and still price match.

Never the less, I walked out with 6 8PK-AA for $3.00! Actually, those 8PK were actually 8(regular)+2(Ultra). So I got 48Duracell and 12Ultra for $3.00

- Vikas

P.S. I did my part to hasten K-Mart's demise

I need some of those reclosable plastic containers...

If anyone has any extra... I'd appreciate it!

(And I'll pay!)

What sizes...if you can buy the batts by your house your wayy better off because by the time I shipped you the container...but if thats what you want I will get you whatever size you need (if they make it)

While I can't be bothered reading up on the chemistry behind it, here's something I lifted from USENET:

When Rayovac first brought out the Renewable Alkalines, there was a LOT of discussion about whether or not alkalines can be recharged. The fact it, they can't. The chemical reaction, just like in carbon-zinc
batteries, is non-reversable.

However, they can be put into a charger (both alkalines and carbon-zinc) and "renewed", and both will act as though they've been recharged; that is, they will deliver more power. However, the renewal
process is only breaking down certain chemical bonds that act as internal shorts, reducing the power available.


Dunno 'bout this info ... been using "Renewals" for years in various devices ... treating them right, some of my AA's are 2-3years old.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dunno 'bout this info ... been using "Renewals" for years in various devices ... treating them right, some of my AA's are 2-3years old. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding?! What type of devices and whats the charge capacity like now?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Just for the record I try to use NiMh batteries for everything but flashlights, especially LED...Why? Well because LED lights land so long the batteried would self discharge faster than the flashlight! Actually, it is not good to pull NiMh batteries as low as flashlights pull them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try to use NiMHs everywhere as well but some applications (like the ever increasing number of remote controls) I use alkalines. I also stock up on alkalines whenever I'm travelling.

Actually believe it or not but NiMH cells aren't damaged by deep discharges. You'll only have a problem if you use 2 (or more) cells and one is completely discharged and the others are still going fine.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now, as far as Energizer vs Duracell I'll tell you what I use...neither. I use rayovacs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, for most devices most alkalines will perform similarly.

The issue is when you get high-drain devices (digicams, portable TVs, halogen torches) then something like Duracell Ultra (or possibly the new Ray-O-Vac Maximum Plus) will probably give you more power/$, especially if you shop around like Vikas!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Someguy:
especially if you shop around like Vikas!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is not actually what we call "shopping around". This would be more in the class of "legal stealing". TX
(actually, I've used coupons in grocery stores where they paid me to take a product out of the store)

I just ran across this battery test-
http://www.professionalwireless.com/battery.html

Nothing real exciting, but the more data we can get, the better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>No kidding?! What type of devices and whats the charge capacity like now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flashlights, pager, Sony 8D cell boombox, cordless microphones. (2 mics. receive about 6 hrs use per week. 2 AA Renewals in series per mike. I THINK the draw is about 120ma. Batteries are rotated into a Rayovac PS1 charger after 1-2 hrs use for a total of 8 batteries being used. Lifespan at this point: 2 1/2 yrs.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Someguy:
While I can't be bothered reading up on the chemistry behind it, here's something I lifted from USENET:
-----------------------------
When Rayovac first brought out the Renewable Alkalines, there was a LOT of discussion about whether or not alkalines can be recharged. The fact it, they can't. The chemical reaction, just like in carbon-zinc
batteries, is non-reversable.

However, they can be put into a charger (both alkalines and carbon-zinc) and "renewed", and both will act as though they've been recharged; that is, they will deliver more power. However, the renewal
process is only breaking down certain chemical bonds that act as internal shorts, reducing the power available.
-----------------------------
Weird huh?!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's see, batteries work by moving electrons from one charged ion to another. A normal battery has ions that lose one (1) electron each and they move over to an ion that gains one (1) electron each. Not all molecules/atoms in the battery participate in this exchange, so no battery seems to have 'perfect' capacity, but that doesn't stop theoretical maximum capicity from being a good metric.

Given that Renewal rechargable alkalines have about 60 to 70% the capacity of normal alkalines but can be fully deep discharge cycled some 25 times before you kill them (much much more is you discharge them less, probably leading to a nice curve of some sort indicating the maximum usable capacity--##of recharges * depth of discharge), they either actually recharge or normal alkaline cells are less than 1 / 15th (25 * .6) of theoretical capacity.

Okay, since you can get some 2.8Ah out of a AA if you speak softly to it, and since a Li cell of the same size (half of a CRV3) gives about half that capacity, multiplyin by their respective voltages will give a wattage capacity. It somes out to 4.2 Wh for the alkaline and 4.8 Wh for the Li cell. Hmm, they're not that much behind. Unless the Li cell people are really dragging their feet (I thought current cells were over 70% of theoretical capacity, already) then rechargable alkalines *really* recharge.

Oh, and I've been using them for a decade and been quite happy with their charge characterisitcs. The charges are good and bad and the cells used to randomly die and leak, but most of that is better now. Still prefer NiMH, though.