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Thread: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell LED Light (CAD) SPY005

  1. #1

    Default Introducing an EDC 2-Cell LED Light (CAD) SPY005

    EDC Two-Cell LCD Light Feeler (CAD) SPY005

    Hello everybody! I am excited about the prospect of manufacturing and offering a run of flashlights to the CPF community. After several months designing the light and bouncing the ideas off many of my personal CPF friends, it is now ready for its introduction. Please take a look at this proposed design and let me know what you think.

    The SPY is a two-cell every-day-carry using 123s. At less than 3.2” long the CAD pictures below show this to be a tiny light (the US quarter is to scale). In a very retro-spy-gear style, the light employs a super micro rotary switch that controls 6 levels of output. See the small round chrome rotary dial just parallel to the bezel. To operate the light you turn the rotary switch one click at a time, from off up through ever-higher light levels. The switch has a stop at off and high so the user will be able to feel the switch and get to the light level desired and also be able to turn the light off without looking at the beam.

    My prime goals for this light are; it must be bright and dim, it must be long lasting for work and play and I want it in my pocket. My intention is to make it high quality, fun with cool features and beautiful.

    The time frame for the completed light is December 2005. It will be as powerful as leading edge (4th quarter 2005) LED technology will permit but also with a practical run time indicative of a two-cell light. In the November time frame a decision will be made to go with the best LED immediately available. If that is not the K2 then I am planning to provide an upgrade path to the K2 when it becomes available.

    Specifications:
    · Proposed name: “ SPY005 ” (SPY released in 2005)
    · Batteries: two CR123 run in series (or rechargeable RCR123s)
    · Proposed LED; Luxeon 3 or K2, Under 4Vf and up to 1500 mA, Lambertian projection
    · Six regulated light levels, high efficiency buck/boost converter
    · Proposed current levels: 1500, 750, 300, 125, 15, 2
    · Rotary switch is mil-spec and rated for a minimum of 10,000 full cycles
    · Reflector is IMS 20 or McR-20 TBD (pictures below show IMS 20)
    · Switch can not come on accidentally in pocket because it is smooth and must be purposefully rotated
    · Body made of 6061-T6 aluminum HA III natural finish and other finishes
    · Bezel is 1” in diameter and is chrome plated on outside surface
    · Water resistant with o-ring seals at the head, cap and dial
    · 1.4% of gross sales will be donated to CPF
    · Six month comprehensive warranty, replacement parts and service will be available for 5 years

    My specialty is machining. A large production CNC vertical machining center is my primary tool. It is only natural for my concept light to be a machined product and not a turned product. A two-cell light fits nicely in your pocket if the batteries are side by side (parallel). My design keeps the light short and thin. It is actually smaller than the average flip cell phone. I am a very proud machinist and my perspective is to make this a high-end intricately machined product like other very fine custom light products found here on CPF.

    The SPY005 has a few unique features worthy of note. The bezel is made of chrome-plated aluminum. The bezel and the case of the light make up the exterior heat sync area. Inside the light, the bezel is thermally connected directly to the LED mounting plate with thermal paste. The lens and reflector are secured with a screw on ring and sealed with an o-ring. There is also an o-ring at the body. The reflector and bezel are designed to fit together with high tolerance. This affords a very compact unit that is always perfectly aligned. The outside diameter of the bezel is only 1” but, here is the good part, the light path is .75” in diameter.

    Another unique feature is the battery cap. It is smooth and clean because of a trick hidden latching mechanism that can be operated with any type of stylus. You push on the button inset in the edge of the cap and pull the cap off to replace the batteries. This cap is o-ring sealed to the back of the light. I am still contemplating an o-ring around the release pin button verses a smooth tolerance fit there. Without an o-ring some gas venting is allowed for. The button can be pressed with any pointy object like a car key, ballpoint pen, small screwdriver, matchstick etc. You get the idea.

    The control knob is also o-ring sealed to the body. It is attached with a snap ring and cannot come off with out disassembling the light from the inside. It interfaces to the rotary switch with a blade protrusion. There is a physical stop built into the knob so that no high level of torque can be transmitted to the switch’s internal stop. The switch is mounted directly to the converter board. The battery pushing on the converter board springs hold the converter board in place and engaged to the control knob. No service is necessary because of the placement of the o-ring, no dirt can get to the knob’s bearing surface.

    I am planning a lanyard that is all cloth and leather that will fit around the bezel. Taking the bezel off and sliding it around like a collar will attach it. For those of us who do not use lanyards it will of course not change the appearance of the light because no attachment point is needed for this design. I am talking with a local beading shop to design a fun optional lanyard that is very cool too. It may be pricy though.

    Some but not all of my advisers think the 1500mA level is too high. I know it is not very useful with a Lux3. At 1500mA the Lux3’s life is shortened and the increase in flux output is minimal over a 1000mA level. However with a K2 or similar LED this will enable my light to output in excess of 100 lumens. And that is the eventual goal. If you do not agree with this plan then please let me know. Nothing is set in stone yet.

    I will not be selling the first run of ~20 lights. They will be prototypes and as such will likely be flawed. Some will be available to select fellow CPF’rs to peruse and review and in some cases beat with a metal rod. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I am planning to start prototype production of this light as soon as its design phase is complete (a few weeks yet). I will not be selling pre invention lights either. The prototypes will be complete before I will except orders for the final production run. The numbers, quantities, costs, lead times and the final configuration including the what LED will be used will all be known before hand. Also, it is my plan to only require down payments at the time of the signup.

    As some of my CPF friends know I run an invention consulting business and a machine shop. This affords me the control and creativity to make this complicated light a reality. In comparison to other projects on CPF this will be very heavy on the machining, polishing and plating requirements. My estimate for the final cost of the light is $345 (preliminary estimate). With such a short-run specialized product no phase of this project will be profitable for me and I am OK with that. I am doing this to keep my machine shop busy and because I am a hopeless flashaholic. I have donated the time to design this light and I know I will be donating much more time yet. The only part I can’t give away is the machining phase, this will meet my machine shop minimum requirements or I cannot move forward.

    I am of course searching for suppliers for various components. I have recruited a CPF electronics guru, Wayne Yamaguchi, for partnering with me on this project. Wayne is custom designing a controller board that will be regulated at each light level and that will interface with the rotary switch. Another of my established partners is a best friend who owns a large job shop and who will be producing the turned components. I also have a long time relationship with a good metal plating company. I will be using Chris at flashlightlens.com for the lenses. I currently lack an LED acquisition and sorting partner. I also will need some CPF liaisons. All partners will be compensated for their time.

    It is important to point out here that I owe a lot to several CPF people for guidance on this project. The first is dat2zip for guiding me to what kind of emitter and electronics make the most sense for my light. Secondly, several people (andrewwynn, tweek, Mr Bulk, tvodrd, DaGunn, Ginseng and others) have given me very valuable feedback that has steered me in the right direction on options and features. I could not have gotten this far on my own.

    I love lights and our community and want very much to produce a light for CPF. Being in the manufacturing business I realize this flashlight is an extensive project. I welcome everyone’s perspective and input to ensure it turns out good. At this point I am testing the waters with this concept and need feedback from you. So, I am looking for a show of hands to determine the interest for a light of this type and cost.

    The series of pictures below show the light outfitted with some different bezels. These options are a work in progress. Also near the end you will see a bezel design I have shamelessly stolen from Ginseng’s Aurora2. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Comments on these and other ideas are greatly encouraged. So without further gilding the lily and with no more ado, I bring you the SPY005.



















































    This is not a sign up thread, but please post with your reactions and comments.

    THANKS FOR LOOKING.



    Sincerely

    David Livingston

  2. #2

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SPY005

    I like it!

    Jeff

  3. #3

    Default Re: EDC 2-Cell LED Light (CAD) SPY005

    thanks

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SPY005

    Interesting ... are you planning on having the body injection-molded?

    It looks like it's designed to be held somewhat like a cigarette lighter.

  5. #5
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    Kiessling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    COOL ! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
    Interested.

    But I see problems with the water seals ... too many of them and maybe too complicated, too.
    Maybe a magnetic switch and a simple "pull-off" tail instead of a "release button" might be better in this aspect?

    Agreed on the 1500 being too high ... but this issue is in reality a non-issue as it stands and falls with the LED being used and should be able to be adjusted in the last minute ...

    Nice cooperation! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    bernie

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    I am in ... I have always loved the side by side configuration. Strongly agree with Kiessling, water entry will create problems. Is this a patent infringement of any type? It's a popular arrangement, but does anyone call it there own? Looks very much like a popular dive light. If it can be made reliable and water resistant, I'm in. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #7

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    An innovative and refreshing design. Very appealing!

    I do have one comment and it is that the LED mounting and surrounding areas look like they provide a minimal amount of mass for thermal sinking. The head on a KL4 is substantially more massive and after several minutes, it gets quite warm even delivering only something like 700mA to the emitter. But then the KL4 circuit is not that efficient.

    You might also consider an alternate configuration which can make use of Pila 150S or 168S lithium ion rechargeable cells.

    Great work Dave.

    Wilkey

  8. #8

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SPY005

    idleprocess

    This run of lights will be all aluminum including the body. And yes, the light can be held in a couple different ways.


    Kiessling

    I will make the o-ring seal surfaces smooth and toleranced so no water or humidity can get in.

    If you have an idea for how to hold the tail-cap on I would love to see it. Nothing is set in stone yet.

    Cheers
    Dave

  9. #9

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Ginseng

    I agree, this light will get hot if you run it on high for very long. The plate the LED is glued to is .150 thick and will transfer the heat out to the bezel and body quickly but this tiny light is no match for the heat dissipation of a KL4.

    If there is demand for this kind of variation in my light, there is no reason I can think of why the body can not be made longer for the Pila cells.

    Thanks for your help and comments Wilkey.
    Dave

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    If you're going to injection mold it out of plastic, you might try one of the special high-thermal conductivity plastics like this.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    [ QUOTE ]
    nerdgineer said:
    If you're going to injection mold it out of plastic, you might try one of the special high-thermal conductivity plastics like this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is a wonderful plastic that I have come across before. I do not have plans to make a plastic version of this light. If I did this would be a great plastic. Its thermal properties are amazing for plastic. I do not need its electrical conductive properties as I could easily run a shunt across the two end cap terminals.

    Cheers
    Dave

  12. #12

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Looks like a fun project. I would embrace a machined concept as opposed to the usually "turned" products that are so familiar. Ever since seeing the SF X200, I thought it would be cool to machine something like this. Hats off for a cool design. Had you considered two small threaded caps on the back side to access the batteries? You could thread mill the O.D. threads on the body and turn some small caps with o-rings to seal. Not quite as clean as your obround style rear cap, but maybe something to consider. Also, nice renderings. What solid modeling software? SolidWorks, Pro/E??

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    It looks like 2005 will be the year of the side by side lights. Nice clean design.

    It looks like the two cells load in (-) first, or are they in series ?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    My pleasure, Dave! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Wilkey

  15. #15

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    RPM

    I looked at the X200 too. My light started with the centered bezel like that.

    With my cap the batteries actually touch. The separate battery cap concept forces the batteries apart and makes the body larger.

    I use Autodesk Inventor for CAD work. The CAM software I started with years ago ran in the old Mechanical Desktop. They ported it over to Inventor and my upgrade path was set for me. I have much $$$ invested in the CAM software and so it is not easy to switch. Do you use SolidWorks? It is very similar to Inventor.


    HarryN

    I thank you and everybody for your kind comments. This has been a labor of love but a long road. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy23.gif[/img]

    The batteries are in series. Mr Bulk also suggested running them in parallel and I have not had the time to talk to Wayne and consider that option throughly. One problem is the battery cap is not electrically conductive, under one ohm, to the body. So a change would be needed to the cap in order to facilitate it. I also do not believe it would relax the requirement for a buck-boost converter and would require the converter to handle about 3 amps on its input.


    Cheers
    Dave

  16. #16

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    I had the extreme pleasure of seeing this prospectus firsthand prior. And all I had to say was

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img][img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img][img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img]
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img][img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img][img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    Ah'm IN!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Data,
    Very cool!

    [peanut gallery] Is there a reason you are using a face seal on the knob instead of a bore seal? Would you consider putting an O-ring groove in the knob so one could add an O-ring for "grip" at will and remove if not needed? It looks like the battery partition web could accomodate a couple blind tapped holes for a pocket clip?!?[/peanut gallery]

    Regarding the 6 watts of power to a LuxIII or K2, I think that heat will be a significant issue given the size of the light. 900 mA on a X200 gets pretty dang hot and that additional 600 mA will be to a very great extent more heat and not light. I think we have to wait some more time before the efficacy will allow for some great flux in little packages. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    If you decide to go with an aluminum reflector, perhaps I can trade you some metal for mill work! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Hi Data - I am very familiar with the challenges and benefits of side x side designs.

    edit Nightshade - There is quite a bit of prior art in this area, both commercial and small run lights.

    As far as price - just MHO, but you are pushing the limit pretty hard. The only way I would buy such a light would be if it truely was a "Made entirely in USA or had EU content." If it is just machined / assembled in the US from far east electronics, it kind of takes away from the quality concept of the light.

    There are good board shops and electronics available which meet these criteria.

    Earlier this month I received my shipment of boards for a very similar light, but not as sophisticated of electroncs. Wayne does a nice job on his electronics designs.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    COOL!

  20. #20
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Cool looking light.

    Why do you need the boost part of your buck/boost
    converter? With a 6V supply and a 4V LED you should
    be able to suck the cells pretty dry without using
    boost.

    Greg

  21. #21

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Mr Bulk

    Thanks so much. You were a great help to me in the development of this light. I owe you Charlie. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]



    McGizmo

    The only reason I chose a face seal over a bore seal was I wanted to keep the knob to .500 in diameter. Note that the switch fits inside all that and it is .300 in diameter. As an example if you change the knob to .600 in diameter it gets very close to the bezel (I do not want the knob hanging below the bottom of the light). So to sum it up, I do not think there is room for a standard bore o-ring seal. I do show an o-ring groove cut into the body so it will stay put and not be able to squirm up and out. I did not draw the groove properly yet as it will have to blend completely into the bearing surface.

    Put an o-ring groove on the outside of the knob? That is an excellent idea. Thank you. I have had several people voice concern about the grip in this knob. Before I go off and tell you what all their ideas were, I need to explain a little more about the switch I have chosen. I have lots of rotary switches laying beside me here on my desk. The two that "feel" the best are from Cole Industries and Grayhill. In testing them for feel I came to the conclusion that the .500" diameter smooth knob transmitted the right amount of torque with the Grayhill switch. Until the prototype is built we will not know for sure if the smooth surface on the knob is adequate. Your idea of an exterior o-ring groove is good and I will add it to some of the prototypes. Thanks Don.

    Yes there is room for a couple 4-40 holes in that part of the body to secure a pocket clip. I have been putting off the decision to add a pocket clip until I find out if it is something everybody would want or not. So please speak up people! I love having pocket clips on my flashlights to keep them from rolling off the table but I do not have that problem with this light! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    As for the 6 watts going into a K2 in this light, I know it will get hot fast! When it does, turn it down. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    I love the McR-20, we will have to talk. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


    Cheers
    Dave

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    You are correct, the best ones are the grayhill switches.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    very inovative light, it looks like it's gonna be a BIG hit here and if you decide to market it, it looks like it would do well in that endeavor aswell.

    doug

  24. #24

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Cool Dave!
    Now that you have gone "public", I am much more comfortable with your design and discussion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Have you looked at metric O-rings as well as the standards? There are quite a few sizes and in 1 mm as well as 1.5 mm cross section.

    As for a clip, I think that light is begging for one! Bezel down is my vote but those "hat boys" will want it the other way. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Man, if I had access to equipment like you do, I would go for a tandem rig but I'd put two LED's and twin head lights on there and go for more lumens for less power! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif[/img] A couple 18 mm reflectors at right angle to the battery tube and a switch at top between the light engines........... :dream: [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Anyway, again, very novel and I look forward to standing in line for one! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* andrewwynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    love the light.. Don has a good point about the o-ring on the dial.. i'd find a switch that has the o-ring built in or seal around the shaft.. the edge seal looks like trouble. I second the concept of a clip possibility as well... i would definitely want one of these lights in my growing collection.

    Oh.. i would design the driver to be able to output 1500 max but stick to something close to design spec for the LED used.. i.e. 1000-1100 for Lux3 and 1500-1600 for K2.

    I reallly really like Don's reflectors.

    -awr

  26. #26

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Data,
    If that design could carry a wallet, it would be the one Samuel L. Jackson carried in "Pulp Fiction". Very nice and innovative.

    As far as price is concerned, it's way out of my range but I had dirt for dinner [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif[/img] . Given all that light will involve I think it's pretty reasonable and I think that it's a great idea to create something that cool for cpf'ers and at the same time keep the guys in your shop busy.

    I agree with Andrew about sticking to spec for LED.

    Personally, I love pocketclips for lights and they are absolutely essential for anyone who does work with tools while on ladders. Bezel up is nice for hat use which really enhances a lights usability but this light may be too heavy for that to be practical. If so , I vote for bezel down since my Arc4 really took many hits to the lens and bezel while clip carried. It might also be possible to design a rail for the clip to slide into and lock. The rail is attached to the light and the clip slides into the rail in whatever direction the user chooses for the situation. The rail could also be used for other attachments like the swivel Don is so fond of or a clamp mount. Sure, this light is pretty damn complex to make already so forget all that and just make a simple and effective bezel down clip. Or don't since I'm making suggestions and can't even buy one [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] .

    The 20 mm aleph reflector is the 'Kind'. Best reflector I've had the pleasure to EDC ( Don when will the HDS retrofit be available ? (this hookah sure smokes smooth [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/duh2.gif[/img])).

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    A great design it would appear! I'll be following this one "fer shur"!!

    Karl

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* StoneDog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Very nice light! While a pocket clip would be nice, some provision for a simple lanyard would be nice. Nothing fancy, just something like one might find on a small mobile flip-phone.

    Jon

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Christoph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    Aww man I think I just wet my self.
    I will have to get a second job thats all there is to it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif[/img]

  30. #30

    Default Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

    HarryN

    Made in the USA, every bit of it. . .almost. . .well not really! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] My machine shop is in Pennsylvania and Wayne’s shop is in California. This is as close to Made in the USA as you can get. But really no closer than any of these great modders lights here on CPF.

    You bring up an important point, maybe the light should say "Made in the USA" on it.



    greg_in_Canada

    Wayne tells me that when you add the efficiency of the converter to the system the battery current will be close to the LED current. When you pull 1500mA from a CR123 they really drop. I will pass on saying more about this and defer the question to Wayne and others who know more about it than I.


    diggdug13

    Thanks.


    McGizmo

    I will have to look more at the metric o-ring sizes. It is funny you said this because I did look at them and did not think there was a very good selection in MSC. Please point me in the right direction.

    That twin bezel light design you are talking about sounds great and it sounds somewhat like andrewwynn’s project. And speaking of Andrew . . .


    andrewwynn

    Without your input early on I wouldn’t be anywhere. I mean it, I can’t thank you enough. You are a gentleman and a scholar. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    That knob is not connected to a shaft on the Grayhill rotary switch! The Grayhill rotary switch is of the “screwdriver actuated” type, it has no external shaft! The cool part of this design is that the knob is attached to the body from the inside of the body. This has some very important advantages. First the knob is structurally mounted very firm. If the light is dropped on the knob no force is imparted into the delicate switch internals. Secondly, if the user applies high torque on the knob the knob itself has a travel limit built into its underside that interfaces with the body. So no high level of torque can be transmitted to the delicate switch internals. Don’t get me wrong, this switch is of the finest quality available, it is mil speced and will last for years and years of use in my light. It’s just that it is important to isolate these delicate mechanical devices. Finally, this knob design is sealed to the elements. Note that the inside bore of the knob is the bearing surface!!! The shaft on the knob is only used to hold the snap-ring and therefore axially secure the knob to the body. That o-ring keeps all the contamination out of the bearing surface. It has to be there for this design to be robust. To ensure the o-ring stays in place I will put a sufficient groove in the body for it to fit into.

    Yes, Don’s reflectors are the bomb. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif[/img]

    BTW I agree completely with your assessment on the converter output. Thanks again for your help and kind comments.


    Cheers
    Dave

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