PlayboyJoeShmoe
Flashaholic
When do you think we\'ll see....
Lithiums in more common sizes like AAA, C, and D?
A Lith aaa for my Arc would be sweet!
Lithiums in more common sizes like AAA, C, and D?
A Lith aaa for my Arc would be sweet!
When do you think we'll see....
- Thread starter PlayboyJoeShmoe
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Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
Their chemistry is a bit hard to master. That's why we don't see em in AAA, C or D sizes. When we do, I don't wanan imagine how low the resistance of the D cell version is.... maybe good enough for 10 amps current draw for 1 hour? Maybe more!
Their chemistry is a bit hard to master. That's why we don't see em in AAA, C or D sizes. When we do, I don't wanan imagine how low the resistance of the D cell version is.... maybe good enough for 10 amps current draw for 1 hour? Maybe more!
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
Most non-SureFire CR123's spec out a recommended maximum current of 1.5 A. The Lithium AA's recommend a maximum current of 1.4 A. As 2 AA Alkalines in parallel can handle more current than a single D alkaline I doubt if you'll see more than 3 amps on a D lithium.
Most non-SureFire CR123's spec out a recommended maximum current of 1.5 A. The Lithium AA's recommend a maximum current of 1.4 A. As 2 AA Alkalines in parallel can handle more current than a single D alkaline I doubt if you'll see more than 3 amps on a D lithium.
star882
Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
There is already duracell ultra(1.5v lithium).
There is already duracell ultra(1.5v lithium).
carbonsparky
Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
I believe there has been a AAA lithium battery made seems to me it was discussed awhile back here? As to why they don't make many standard sized sizes, I would guess manufacturers don't want us to mix up 3 volt lithium cells for 1.5 volt. The newer 1.5 volt lithium AA allow for safe replacement for most applications and may explain why it seems to be hanging around. People have a habit of suing someone when they are to stupid to read the instructions. The main reason you will not see the larger batteries is that there is transportation laws that do not allow for air shipment of lithium batteries above a certain mass. The lithium ion batteries must be excluded from this somehow. You can find military batteries that are bigger but you will not find commercial batteries above a certain size.
I believe there has been a AAA lithium battery made seems to me it was discussed awhile back here? As to why they don't make many standard sized sizes, I would guess manufacturers don't want us to mix up 3 volt lithium cells for 1.5 volt. The newer 1.5 volt lithium AA allow for safe replacement for most applications and may explain why it seems to be hanging around. People have a habit of suing someone when they are to stupid to read the instructions. The main reason you will not see the larger batteries is that there is transportation laws that do not allow for air shipment of lithium batteries above a certain mass. The lithium ion batteries must be excluded from this somehow. You can find military batteries that are bigger but you will not find commercial batteries above a certain size.
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
Even the AA lithium cells are made for photo applications. With what appears to be the battery manufacturer's philosophy in place, lithium cells of standard sizes like C and D will not happen.
The battery manufacturers are still making the 123 lithium cells for photo applications, whether companies like Surefire makes flashlights that use them or not. Other than Surefire 123 cells, which are apparently private labeled, the battery manufacturer doesn't give serious consideration to it as a flashlight battery.
I've heard that 123 cells photo applications are now all for previously manufactured goods; no one is making new products. If that is the case, then eventually you can expect to see the 123 cell eventually made by only one manufacturer to insure availability for previous goods, and the price to skyrocket.
If you'd like to see the 123 cell succeed as a flashlight battery, instead of encouraging companies like Surefire, Brinkmann, Streamlight and Arc to make the lights, we need to plead, beg and request a 123 flashlight from Rayovac and Energizer.
Rayovac and Energizer are the ones that decide what will and won't be a flashlight battery. They will build flashlights to sell their batteries. If they don't make flashlights to use a particular battery, then that battery isn't being made for flashlight use.
Even the AA lithium cells are made for photo applications. With what appears to be the battery manufacturer's philosophy in place, lithium cells of standard sizes like C and D will not happen.
The battery manufacturers are still making the 123 lithium cells for photo applications, whether companies like Surefire makes flashlights that use them or not. Other than Surefire 123 cells, which are apparently private labeled, the battery manufacturer doesn't give serious consideration to it as a flashlight battery.
I've heard that 123 cells photo applications are now all for previously manufactured goods; no one is making new products. If that is the case, then eventually you can expect to see the 123 cell eventually made by only one manufacturer to insure availability for previous goods, and the price to skyrocket.
If you'd like to see the 123 cell succeed as a flashlight battery, instead of encouraging companies like Surefire, Brinkmann, Streamlight and Arc to make the lights, we need to plead, beg and request a 123 flashlight from Rayovac and Energizer.
Rayovac and Energizer are the ones that decide what will and won't be a flashlight battery. They will build flashlights to sell their batteries. If they don't make flashlights to use a particular battery, then that battery isn't being made for flashlight use.
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I haven't, Saaby. I'm operating on hearsay on that statement. But it wasn't that there are none being sold. It was that there are no new models being designed around the 123. Regardless, the 123 will never be considered a flashlight battery unless Rayovac or Eveready markets a flashlight requiring them.
MicroE
Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
I fear that Empath and Saaby are BOTH correct. The current point-and-shoot camera designs use 123's. The trouble is that the days of the point-and-shoot are numbered.
Everybody is buying digital cameras that use AA's. The digitals are eating away at the silver halide camera market.
At some point in the near future there will be only a few production cameras using 123's. At that point Duracell and Energizer will both get out of the 123 business and the prices will skyrocket. What will Surefire do?---Marc
I fear that Empath and Saaby are BOTH correct. The current point-and-shoot camera designs use 123's. The trouble is that the days of the point-and-shoot are numbered.
Everybody is buying digital cameras that use AA's. The digitals are eating away at the silver halide camera market.
At some point in the near future there will be only a few production cameras using 123's. At that point Duracell and Energizer will both get out of the 123 business and the prices will skyrocket. What will Surefire do?---Marc
MicroE
Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
There is a company called Tadiran that sells Lithium batteries in 1/3 AA, 2/3 AA, AA,
C, and D.
I called today but they do not sell Lithium AAA. Customer service could not explain why the AAA was left out.
Check them out at
http://www.tadiranbat.com/
---Marc
There is a company called Tadiran that sells Lithium batteries in 1/3 AA, 2/3 AA, AA,
C, and D.
I called today but they do not sell Lithium AAA. Customer service could not explain why the AAA was left out.
Check them out at
http://www.tadiranbat.com/
---Marc
Willmore
Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
If a D or C sized cell was made with the same kind of properties as the AA Li-Fe cells, it would have about the same capacity as normal alkaline D and C cells, but would have a lower internal resistance.
Since they recommend 1.4A draw for the 2.9Ah AA cells, we can assume that the D will scale the same way. The nominal capacity for D cells is 27Ah, so we can expect them to safely supply 12A or so.
This is just a lot of 'if'. There is little financial incentive to ever make these cells and there is no reason that they would just 'scale up' the AA design. They'd probably trade off some of the lower resistance for more capacity. I mean, who needs a D cell that can supply 12A for two hours? What are you doing, arc welding?
If you need to crank that much, use NiMH or PbSO4--or a big parallel pack of Li-ion.
Now, find me a cool power source for those cute little rechargable cars....
If a D or C sized cell was made with the same kind of properties as the AA Li-Fe cells, it would have about the same capacity as normal alkaline D and C cells, but would have a lower internal resistance.
Since they recommend 1.4A draw for the 2.9Ah AA cells, we can assume that the D will scale the same way. The nominal capacity for D cells is 27Ah, so we can expect them to safely supply 12A or so.
This is just a lot of 'if'. There is little financial incentive to ever make these cells and there is no reason that they would just 'scale up' the AA design. They'd probably trade off some of the lower resistance for more capacity. I mean, who needs a D cell that can supply 12A for two hours? What are you doing, arc welding?
If you need to crank that much, use NiMH or PbSO4--or a big parallel pack of Li-ion.
Now, find me a cool power source for those cute little rechargable cars....
hank
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
Tadiran's nowadays are all 3.6v chemistry, so their C and D aren't direct replacements for alkaline C and D cells.
Long, long ago I was able to buy flashlight batteries from REI -- 1.5v lithium chemistry -- for winter mountaineering, usable at very cold sites. I don't know if they're still available. They were something like $10 (1980 dollars) each.
Tadiran's nowadays are all 3.6v chemistry, so their C and D aren't direct replacements for alkaline C and D cells.
Long, long ago I was able to buy flashlight batteries from REI -- 1.5v lithium chemistry -- for winter mountaineering, usable at very cold sites. I don't know if they're still available. They were something like $10 (1980 dollars) each.
Charles Bradshaw
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
I think REI still sells Eveready Lithium AAs. The old chemistry was 1.5 volt (gold/red case). The E2 lithium AAs (current product) are 1.83 volt before load. Eveready holds the patent(s) on the direct AA replacement for Lithiums.
As a result, you have to be careful that you don't overdrive your light with them. Particularly if it doesn't have regulation.
I think REI still sells Eveready Lithium AAs. The old chemistry was 1.5 volt (gold/red case). The E2 lithium AAs (current product) are 1.83 volt before load. Eveready holds the patent(s) on the direct AA replacement for Lithiums.
As a result, you have to be careful that you don't overdrive your light with them. Particularly if it doesn't have regulation.
PhotonRanger
Newly Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
If you want a nice corporate brush off, go the Energizer web site and send them e-mail asking about Lithium AAA.
http://www.energizer.com/contact/default.asp
I do it often anyway, just to let them know there is consumer interest in that product. Let's browbeat the Bunny 'til we get some!
If you want a nice corporate brush off, go the Energizer web site and send them e-mail asking about Lithium AAA.
http://www.energizer.com/contact/default.asp
I do it often anyway, just to let them know there is consumer interest in that product. Let's browbeat the Bunny 'til we get some!
Anthem
Newly Enlightened
Re: When do you think we\'ll see....
Mesage sent, awaiting brush off...
Mentioned how handy they'd be in survival kits and road kits where they're stored for ages and in freezing climates. Hopefully they'll collect enough good reasons to give them a go.
Mesage sent, awaiting brush off...
Mentioned how handy they'd be in survival kits and road kits where they're stored for ages and in freezing climates. Hopefully they'll collect enough good reasons to give them a go.
