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Thread: "McR- xx" Reflectors

  1. #1

    Default "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Hi guys,

    It has come to my attention that there should be a thread regarding the various reflectors I have designed and are being used in some of my lights as well as other mods, lights and what have you.

    Below is a current line up:



    Brief description:

    McR-19: This reflector has a short focal length and was designed specifically with the Cree 7090 LED in mind. It is relatively very deep compared to its exit diameter and probably acts on more of the light generated by the LED than any of the other reflectors. As it turns out, it also works well with many other LED's. Focal allignment seem to be very good with the Nichia Jupiter as well as the Seoul Semiconductor LEDs. With the Luxeon's, the McR-19 works as a flood refflector with the rear face of the reflector against the top face of the LED package. If the reflector is elevated about .060" further above the LED, the focal allignment is very close and there is a concentrated spot as well as concentrated and tight corona or spill portion to the beam.

    McR-18: This reflector is an off shoot of a reflective curve and focal length first encountered with the McR-20. Orb Flashlights has been using this reflector recently in lieu of taking the McR-20 and chopping it down. This reflector exists primarily due to Rob and Orb. Spurred on by a question posted on CPF, with a little investigation I discovered that the McR-18 will retro-fit in many of the lights designed initially for the NX05 optic as well as other possible hosts. Examples will be shown in further post(s). In particular, the McR-18 will fit in the original McLux, the LongBow and drop in to the mini mag AA.

    McR-20: This was the first production reflector I had made based on a focal length and curve I devised and initially visited in smple 17 and 35 mm configurations. I opted for the 20 mm as I felt it was the maximum size reflector that could be used in a 1" OD head. The first light to use this reflector was the Aleph 2. It is also being used now in my McLuxIII-PD. This reflector has been used in various mods and lights by others. I had the exterior profile stepped to allow modders to cut it down to other sizes as needed. Rob at Orb used it for his Raw until we agreed to go with a specific reflector in hia application (see the McR-18). The McR-20 is a reasonably deep reflector with orange peel and gives a moderate spot and useable corona when paired with a Luxeon LED. It is designed to fit down on the shoulder of the Luxeon for general focal allignment and can be fine tuned from there if one is so inclined.

    McR-27L: This reflector exists now in pre-production samples only. It is an extension on the McR-20 and uses the same focal length as the McR-18 and McR-20. It is intended to capture more of the emitted light and redirect this light into an apparent tighter spot as well as a more concentrated corona. The pre-production samples have agressive orange peel on the surface and the result is a flood beam of realitive bright and concentrated beam angle with a center portion that extends the reach noticibly beyond the McR-20. In lux measurement, it falls short of the McR-27 but not by noticible amounts to the naked eye. This reflector has no current host but some proto's are being evaluated and considered. Likely due to its depth and the orange peel of the pre-production samples, this reflector works with a Luxeon 5W as well as its intended Luxeon LuxIII and in the couple sample assemblies I tried, there is perhaps a hint of a null or donut on a white wall at close distances but no visibility of such in actual use. The McR-27L seems to be about the same depth as the SF KL5 reflector but with a smaller exit diameter. This reflector can be used in heads from an OD of 1.250" and larger.

    McR-27: This is my first reflector of a parabolic nature and is based on the venerable Pelican M6 reflector. It was first seen as a component along with the McCapsules and used as a mod for the Pelican M6 incandescent lights. It then became the reflector used in the McLux PR heads and then the McLux PR-T heads. The first Aleph, the Aleph 1 uses the McR-27. This reflector is similar in performance to the IMS 27 but typically has a slightly tighter and more intense spot portion to the beam. It has been used in various mods and other lights.

    McR-38: This reflector uses the same focal length as the McR-27 but with more reflective surface to act on more of the LED's output. The result is an apparent tighter and more intense spot as well as corona. At the expense of more real estate, this reflector is basically more efficient than the McR-27. This reflector is used in the Aleph 3 head as well as by others in some mods and such.

    McR-45: This reflector is yet an extension on the McR-38 and of course the McR-27. It shares the same focal length. The limited production reflectors have a more agressive orange peel so the effects of this reflector are somewhat less obvious than they otherwise would have been in comparing to the McR-38. This reflector will measure higher in lux than the McR-38 but the difference is most apparant in comparison in real world use where one can see a greater reach in both the spot as well as the restricted corona of the beams. This reflector is being used in the McLux HD45 which is now starting to become available in small numbers on the shoppe.

    ***********************************************

    Aside from the McR-27L which is not available yet in production pieces, the rest of these reflectors are available to modders and interested parties from the shoppe.

    For other builders, I am open to working with you on a wholesale level but please understand that I am not in a position to expand overnight in inventory numbers of significance or strictly on speculation. I have done and will do specific designs on a case by case basis but don't pretend to be an expert or even an adequate in the field of reflective optics and their designs. So far, I have done a pretty good job of faking it but the potential of a bomb is always there!
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  2. #2

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    If you need dimensions of any of these reflectors, I have a directory of PDF files HERE.
    Last edited by McGizmo; 09-26-2005 at 05:38 PM.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  3. #3

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    reserved*****
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  4. #4
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    The diameter of the "steps" on the O.D. of the McR-35 do not seem to follow your earlier efforts. Have you gone metric, or something, or did I get a freebee 2nd? (Actually, the dia's aren't nice metric numbers.)

    As to a "custom" production, I was thinking along the lines of a McR-14.25.

    Obligatory

    Larry
    So much for not being able to find my happy a** with both hands and a flashlight! (Do not look into Tank Searchlight with remaining eye!)

  5. #5

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Hi guys,
    I think I'll leave this thread open for comments and/or postings of examples of use of these reflectors. If the thread gets too long, we can bring the initial post forward to subsequent continuation threads.

    Off the bat, I took a pic of some uses (Beyond Rob's successful Orb Raw) of the McR-18. From L to R is a LongBow, MagAA and McLux original (with LD emitter ):



    ALthough I have no definite plans yet as to hosting of the McR-27L, I am personally happy with the utility of its beam both with the LuxIII and Lux5W and do have production pieces on order. I have visited a twisty version of a light that can use the new Yamaguchi "x2" converters and a proto was done with a 2x123 twisty pack and a heavy wall head. It is shown below along with an "Aleph 27L" proto that I am using with a BB700/ 5W LE for testing purposes. Again there are no final plans at present ant this thread should not be diluted with comments regarding possible hosting of the 27L. If you have ideas on this specific reflector, please start another thread for discussion of it.

    My thoughts at present are to move forward and that it makes more sense to look at a host for this reflector that also utilizes the 'x2" converters. I am still looking into the viability of a clickie rear, 2x123 with twisty "x2" front end. If I can come up with a good clickie switch, one could set the front end ahead of time and use the rear for momentary or constant on or one could leave the clickie in the "on" position and use the light in the simple and viable, multi level, off - low- high activation from the simple head twist. Frankly, I am not convinced the clickie is necessary and I have found that the proto below that is twisty only works fine for my non tactical needs.



    The McLux III with "x2" converter sample from different angles:






    And my latesest use of a McR-19 is in a custom one off PD that hosts a Nichia 395UV driven at 150/490 mA:

    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  6. #6
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    For our convienience I stickied this important thread.

    Looking good, Don! Bring'em on!

    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
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    Flashaholic* PEU's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    I will try the bigger reflectors (38/45) for sure, are they available right now from Wayne?

    I have an order for converters and I cant resist the urge to test them


    Pablo

  8. #8
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    McR -14.25 in the "works."





    Larry
    So much for not being able to find my happy a** with both hands and a flashlight! (Do not look into Tank Searchlight with remaining eye!)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Any plans to alter any of the reflectors to accomodate the lower die heights we are seeing with current production Luxeons and will also be part of the K2 spec?

    I've already built one light engine using one of the new 'low die' emitters, and the hot spot, at least in the A2, is now slightly more diffuse when compared to an A2 with an older light engine.

    I tried the same experiment with my A3 head, but could see no real difference - though I don't have two A3 heads to make side by side comparisons with.

    This was not a well controlled experiment so there may be other variables at work here, but I thought I would raise the potential issue for comment from those more knowledgeable!

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* PEU's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    that design cries for some unknurled area


    Pablo

  11. #11

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    By the way, the McR-18 fits very nicely in the ancient Arc LS
    It adds 1mm, but works well Much nicer beam than the ims17.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Imagine a McR45 and a W-bin LuxV driven at spec....never thought I would drool at reflectors...
    "a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -Warren vs District of Columbia, after three women were raped, beaten for 14 hours and police never came after numerous 911 calls were placed

  13. #13
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by PEU
    that design cries for some unknurled area


    Pablo
    For more than once, I agree with PEU! (Don;t let it "go to your head." Pablo! ) It's a proto for establishing internal dimensions.

    Larry
    So much for not being able to find my happy a** with both hands and a flashlight! (Do not look into Tank Searchlight with remaining eye!)

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* Lunal_Tic's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    The 38mm works in a military angle head light. The process can be found here


    lunal tic (n)
    a distinctive behavioral trait or quirk directly related to or caused by light [15th cent. Latin lunaris. Ultimately from an IE word meaning “light,”] and [Early 19th cent. Italian ticchio.] see also: moon quirk

  15. #15

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    wasblinded,

    Good question but I am not sure how to answer at present given the fact that it is easy to shim the reflector away from the LED a tad with no loss if one wants to tighten the beam but since there are so many LuxIII's still around that would have the problem of needing to move forward further into the reflector if it were optimized for the "new" style, I think it is premature to make a move at present. My limited experience with the K2's so far has been that they work fine with the current reflectors. It may well be that optimal tuning has not been visited but then at some level, optimal tuning could be done on a case by case basis and is subject to subjectivity! .

    Another thing to consider is that the actual height of the die may or may not agree with the apparant height of its image. The older LuxIII's have a tiny convex-plano lens in the top of their domes. I have not seen the new style yet nor do I know if it has retained the same dome design?!? The K2 does not have this and its distribution pattern is different than that of the Lux III. I personally prefer the reduction in sharpness of projection that you get from the orange peel and this softening or blending of the projection not only gives you more lattitude in adjustment, it also makes it more difficult to find or identify an "optimal solution". I have discovered that the sharp delineation from spot to corona can be a distracting edge or artifact in real use that I prefer to not be there. I concentrate on the beam when I am evaluating it but prefer not seeing it when I am using it to se the target; if that makes any sense. If I were working with very smooth surface reflectors focal adjustment would be more critical and I might be more concerned about the newer Luxeons.

    Larry,
    Have you tried choping a 19 mm yet? (You and Peu need a room!! )
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Does anyone know what McR-xx reflectors fit in Mr Bulk's lights?
    VIP
    VIP w BH
    LionHeart
    LionCub

    Thanks

  17. #17

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    I don't believe any are simple drop ins.

    The McR-20 can be used with some tweaking in the LC. I put a McR-27 in my LH with some modification to reflector and the light.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo
    Have you tried choping a 19 mm yet? )
    Don, Excuse my ignorance but by 'choping' do you mean

    1. Reduce short end so LED lens is further in reflector and beam changes.
    2. Reduce the overall length
    3. Reduce the outside diameter of reflector.
    Thanks
    David............................................. "A few of my Home Built lights"

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* knifebright's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Cy you can get them at the sandwich shop. the 18's are out at the moment. I jsut picked up a few 20's as well as a small fouturne worth of U-bin stars and emmitters.
    jimmy
    "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user" Colonel Jeff Cooper >>>100% safe Queen Free!<<<

  21. #21

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    David,

    By chopped, I meant reducing the OD down to Larry's target diameter; a removal of the front end. The 19 mm has a much shorter focal length than the 20 mm so even at reduced diameters, you still have a reasonably deep and effective reflector. With the Luxeon's, the 19 can be stood off up to .060" to tighten and sharpen the projection of the beam. The light loss from backing the LED away from the reflector is more than made up for by the gain in the more intense rays which are then being redirected by the reflector.

    ************

    I have a modded Mag AA that hosts a McR-19 and when you first turn it on, you have a good flood beam. As you adjust the reflector further away from the LED, you can see light from the corona fan into a spot that provides more reach (throw) of the beam. Unlike the stock light with the incan, this adjustment from flood to spot is artifact and donut free.

    The McR-18 are currently in very short supply but I have a large order in process. Its versatility in retrofit was not fully appreciated or explored and although the shoppe started out with a fair number of reflectors there were apparently a couple orders in quantities that essentially cleaned the inventory out. I have a few more I held back in personal reserve that I will get to Wayne and Cindy and perhaps the members here can go light on the quantities ordered to spread the access for experimentation until the shelves get filled once again.

    For any given focal length of a parabolic or psuedo parabolic curve, as you increase the depth of the reflector by providing more reflective surface further away from the focal pont or LED, you increase the percentage of light output that is managed by and redirected by the reflector. Due to imperfections in the reflective surface (orange peel) as well as a non infinitely small point source of light (image) and deviations in the curve as well as focal allignment, a deeper reflector of the same focal length can be seen to concentrate both the spot and corona portions of the beem into smaller angles of distribution with higher intensities of light within. To my vision, more significant and noticible at a glance than the increase of the throw of the spot is the increase in effective range of the corona.

    The 19, 27L and 45 mm reflectors are examples of this. It is beyond the spot where the strength of these reflectors can be seen, IMHO. The trade off is of course in real estate and flashlight size required to support the deeper reflectors. Both the corona and spot portions of a projected LED have a field of view and range in which they are viable for illumination. Variations in the depth of reflector used, of the same focal length, will act on both the throw as well as the field of view for both spot and corona but not to the same magnitude. With a perfectly smooth and alligned reflector acting on a relatively small image or source, increasing the depth of the reflector would increase the intensity of the spot with little change in its field of view. This increase would have little effect on the intensity of the corona but it would reduce its field of view as the exit angle of direct (non reflected) light is reduced. With orange peel, on the surface, the reflected beam is more divergent and some light is out of column and added to the corona. Increasing the depth of an orange peeled reflector Reduces the apparent field of view of the spot, reduces tha actual field of view of the corona and increases the intensity of light in both portions of the beam. Of significance, at least to me, increasing the depth of an orange peeled reflector also blurs the transition edge in the portion of the beam where you go from the spot into the corona region. The contrast of light in the overall beam is reduced by a deeper orange peeled reflector.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  22. #22
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    Thumbs up Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Don,
    It seems you have already updated the McR-27, the opening of the McR-27 in the first picture is smaller than the original McR-27, and there is also something different in the bottom.
    Great work!
    Wondering when this new reflector will be available
    Last edited by hifipenny; 09-05-2005 at 12:07 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Thanks for the great explanation.
    David............................................. "A few of my Home Built lights"

  24. #24

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    HiFipenny! Oh man! Now I need to re-shoot the pictures!

    Good observation! That reflector is not a McR-27 but an original Pelican M6 incan reflector! Haste makes waste and I just grabbed parts out of an "optics" box to get the photo done.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  25. #25

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by tvodrd
    McR -14.25 in the "works."





    Larry


    WOW very very nice Larry


    Doug
    *****************************************
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  26. #26
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo
    And my latesest use of a McR-19 is in a custom one off PD that hosts a Nichia 395UV driven at 150/490 mA:

    Wow, if I ever had the need for a UV light...

    I am now starting to see what this term "flashoholics" means...

  27. #27
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Don,



    Thanks for the detailed information on each reflector - awesome!

    Will
    Please no PM/Visitor Msg's. Email for questions/Paypal: wquiles [at] gmail {dot} com. Please visit my new website.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Being metal do these provide any worthwhile heatsinking to a lux? Because of the placement over the lux I'm thinking not.

  29. #29

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    sflate,
    The reflectors that seat down on the LED have poor thermal contact there but may have decent thermal contact within the head walls and if so, add to the "thermal reservoir". In other cases and depending on the application, the reflectors may be in a good and direct contact with the Heat sink itself and again will add in mass capable of thermal relief. Ultimately the steady state of the light will be a function of how well and quickly the heat is passed beyond the light, prior to steady state, any material within the confines of the light that has reasonable thermal connection will serve and aid in sharing the thermal load.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    At the risk of showing my ignorance: Do any of these reflectors work with xenon lamps? Or could they be adapted into a xenon lamp reflector?
    My lights, all AA, neutral or warm: 3 Fenix TK20s; 2 Malkoff M30WFs; 2 Shiningbeam Romisens (5A); Dereelight XP-G R5 (close enough); UK 4AA incan.

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