"McR- xx" Reflectors

[colterbay2005]

I ordered a couple McR-18 from the shoppe this weekend and I plan to use them in place of the optic in my new Princeton Tec APEX headlamp......I tried using a reflector out of my McLuxIIIPD but it was too tall but I think that the McR-18 will be a perfect fit and great upgrade for the APEX.

Daniel.

[McGizmo]

Hi guys,
I caught Xochi's question and since I have two Fennix lights and a few McR-18 reflectors, I took the chalenge of testing viability. Interestingly, the McR-18 probably couldn't have been beter sized as a drop in. It does fit and is the same height as the stock reflector. With the one I modded, it would seem that the LED is a "joker". This results in a noticibly larger spot and less contrast between the spot and corona due to a more gradual transition. Now that I think back, the light I modded had a slightly larger spot than the other light I left alone and it may be that I was seeing the difference between a joker and non Joker in the Fenix light. OK, I'll mod the other on and see if my suspicion is correct........

Don't even think about asking for beam shots!

EDIT: OK, I tried to get the other light apart and put a McR-18 in it and it was a no go. I ended up holding the head in a collet on my lathe and using a parallel pliers on the flats of the body to break the head free from the body. That was fine but the light engine does not want to come out and I can't waste any more time on this.

If someone is interested in swapping reflectors, I would state that yes, the exchange is easy provided you can easily take your Fennix apart.

[xochi]

Excellent! Thanks alot , Don. I've already got the heatsink out (it was a nightmare) so now I think I'll order one dem flectors.

[4sevens]

Excellent! Thanks alot , Don. I've already got the heatsink out (it was a nightmare) so now I think I'll order one dem flectors.

I've tried to drop on it and it seems the 18 is just a tad too big. it goes in
but then stops at the threads.

[McGizmo]

4Sevens,

Uh Oh, sounds like some tolerance or dimensional variations here that may not be friendly?!?! In the one I have that came apart, the McR-18 dropped straight down. I was real surprised when I wen to try the other Fenix and had to wrench the head off and the light engine will not budge. It looks like the old YMMV is well in place on this mod.

[nemul]

Sway,
If I did a 52 mm reflector the way I would want it for a LED, the Mag bezel would need to be replaced with a much deeper one!

i'm in for both

hmmm... Mag 2C, UCL, nFlex, o-sink, WXOS, McR-52, McMagBezel, 3xRCR123..

[xochi]

Well,
I just received my McR-18. It is a beautiful little reflector! I also just read 4sevens post about it stopping at the threads and my heart sank. So, I just tried it in a Fenix L1 that I bought from 4sevens and it fit perfectly! Of course, since I destroyed the LE during removal of the heatsink, I couldn't try it out but even without light it really looks gorgeous in the Fenix. When I initially dropped in the flector it did stop at the threads but with a little fiddling and no force, it dropped the rest of the way in.

I believe that the version L1 that I bought from 4sevens is a 2.5 but I could be wrong. I managed to find a 2.0 L1P that I'm hoping isn't potted that will be the home for the McR-18. It would be nice to know if the variances are more prone to certain models/versions of the fenix or particular runs of the McR-18 (mine I just received from the Shoppe).

Xochi

[McGizmo]

Xochi,
I think you mean McR-18. The reflector vendor has been real good on tolerances and this issue with the Fenix is the first I have heard of where a reflector fits in one light and not in another. It is quite possible that both the reflector and the Fenix are within their tolerance range but the two ranges have an interference zone.

It may be that a little sandpaper is required in some cases.

[xochi]

, yeah, I meant McR-18!

I also meant what I said about it being really beautiful just sitting in the Fenix. If the beam profile is similar to the 20 AND all the other ifs of this project come out the way they I hope then I just might be getting close to my perfect EDC. "Might" and "close" being the key words. With this in mind, I think Moby Dick might be an appropriate name for this modded fenix, if it works out.

[tvodrd]

For those who don't favor the squarish beam of the latest KL1, the McR20 is a virtual "drop-in." (Providing you can get it apart. I've been sucessful twice. ) They can either be cut-down a little or a 1/2" long bezel ring can be made to put them in early L1 heads. If anybody remembers the two years I spent mastering the turning-down of optics...............

Larry

[McGizmo]

OK Larry, shall we have a "stupid contest"? Nah, we can both claim the title!

[tvodrd]

Hey, plick,

I just look at the BEAMS! my EDC is gonna get an upgrade to a U-bin and a cut-down McR something-or-other in the near future!

Larry

[Illuminated]

Hi guys - just thought I'd chime in for a minute...

I bought a McR20 some time ago with no particular host in mind. I recently realized I never use the original head supplied with my VIP because I didn't care for the Fraen or the IMS beam patterns with it.

So...on a pit stop home between business trips, I threw it into the lathe and shortened it from the wide end - and viola! What a beautiful beam!

Now I'm using it frequently - and I love it. I've since downloaded the PDF files on all the McRxx reflectors and will hopefully have some time to see what else is possible for other lights I'd like to use more. Funny, though...not a Mini-Mag in the bunch...

Nice work with those reflectors Don!

John

[StoneDog]

So does anyone have a beamshot of a Lux3 in a McR19?

Don, does the .06" offset apply to regular or "joker" emitters?

Jon

[Kiessling]

Of course

LuxIII in McR-19


LuxV in McR-19:


Some other shots of this unusual reflector:

McR-19 vs. L4:


McR-19 vs McR-20:


Cree and Nichia:


No matter what you put in there ... you'll get a relatively even concentrated flood beam with not much hotspot. Very cool.

bernie

[McGizmo]

Jon,
the offset does not relate to the joker. you presumeably could go to a .045" offset with a joker for alignment. I believe Bernhards beam shots are with no offset at all though?!?! The McR-19 works real nice with the Seoul LED as well.

[StoneDog]

Don & Bernie, thanks!!!

I don't know anything about the Seoul LED's - are they a sort of generic Luxeon? I remain fixated on the Lux3 now that "U" bins are available.

I kinda like Kiessling's beamshot. It remindes me (a little) of the NX-05's beam when used with the original low dome Lux1. The benefit here, of course, is the uniform tint.

Hmmm, wonder what an A19 head looks like on a E2e-BK.

Jon

[CM]

I ordered a couple McR-18 from the shoppe this weekend and I plan to use them in place of the optic in my new Princeton Tec APEX headlamp......I tried using a reflector out of my McLuxIIIPD but it was too tall but I think that the McR-18 will be a perfect fit and great upgrade for the APEX.

Daniel.

Have you tried it yet? I'm interested in this mod. I'm just not an optic person and that Apex needs a better photon management system.

[Bob_G]

Jon,

My experience with the A19 in flood mode (not shimmed in other words) is that you definitely want some power to it - say 700mA with a U-bin. It "spreads" the available light over the entire beam, so very different than what people are used to. In other words, with a lower powered LE it seems quite dim.

Mine has a BB500 LuxV, but I've also experimented with a DB700 U-bin LuxIII, and I have to say it has the most useful low I've ever seen with either. It's one of my 2 or 3 favorite lights.

[colterbay2005]

CM,

Yes I have tried it. I first tried to fit the McR-20 (the same one used in the PD) but it was too tall and I could not put the face back on the light....so I thought that the McR-18 would work since it is said to be a good replacement for the NX05 optic. The APEX has what I thought was a typical NX05...but I was wrong, the APEX uses a larger and taller optic than the typical NX05.

So in summary...The McR-20 is too tall but otherwise a perfect fit, a beautiful beam though. The McR-18 is too small and will need to be glued in place because the face of the APEX alone will not keep it in place. But again the McR-18 does produce a beautiful beam.

Solution:

I think that my next step will be the following: use the "too tall" McR-20, use some longer screws, and find a thick sheet of pliable plastic or rubber (any suggestions) that I can cut out to use as a spacer/seal between the face and the backing, thus making up for the difference due to the taller reflector and also retain the waterproofness of the light.

Well none of that probably made a bit of sense....basically the McR-18 is not the perfect, easy swap I expected becasue the APEX optic is not yer typical NX05.

I'm very open to any suggestions.....I really don't care too much for the beam of the APEX and I probably won't even use it until I can make a switch for a better reflector and beam. On the OFF-TOPIC: The 4AA battery case is the best headlamp batt case I know of....would be a good way to power up some kind of WIZ-2/aleph/headlamp configuration.

Daniel.

[Kiessling]

Yepp, shots are non-shimmed with standard LEs.
bernie

[xochi]

Hey Don
I just wanted to post reguarding my impressions of the McR-18 in the Fenix.

I love it! IMO the fenix should come with this reflector. Great sidespill, smooth transition from spill to spot and a signifigantly larger spot than the oem flector.

Thanks alot for making these available. I am a very satisfied customer!

[McGizmo]

cool xochi!

[nemul]

hows the McR-18 look with a LuxV in a minimag? thanks..

[Geogecko]

Does anyone have any beam shot comparisons between the McR-20 and the McR-18?

I'm wanting to use a couple in a project, but am not sure which. I have another LED taking care of flood, but need something that will throw a little further out, but still provide wide coverage, at that throw, if possible. I'm limited in size, so it pretty much has to be either the 18 or the 20.

Oh, BTW, this will be used with a UX1K LuxIII Star. It will probably be driven at nominal current (350mA), or maybe just slightly overdriven, to possibly 500-600mA. I also believe this star has the new slug type.

[McGizmo]

Nemul,
No idea of the 18 with a 5W in any host.

Geogecko,
I don't have beam shot comparisons but perhaps someone else does. The 18 is just a cut down version of the 20 so figure a larger spot and corona angle on the 18 VS the 20 but by how much, I can't guess. With a Joker LED, you will have a less defined and concentrated spot and more light in the corona. A better beam for close to mid range but not as strong at distance. To allign the focus, file off about .015" from the rear of the reflector.

[Geogecko]

What I'm shooting for, as far as throw is concerned, is to see well about 100 feet out in front of me. Is your reference to a "Joker LED" the one I'm talking about using? Also, how would I know that I've taken .015" off the reflector (buy a caliper)?

Are you planning on upgrading your reflectors to conpensate for the new die positions? Reason I'm asking, is that if I end up making 100 or more lights, I'd rather not have to spend the time sanding down reflectors...just wondering.

[nemul]

Nemul,
No idea of the 18 with a 5W in any host.

looks like im just goin have to try then huh? lol

[McGizmo]

What I'm shooting for, as far as throw is concerned, is to see well about 100 feet out in front of me. Is your reference to a "Joker LED" the one I'm talking about using? Also, how would I know that I've taken .015" off the reflector (buy a caliper)?

Are you planning on upgrading your reflectors to conpensate for the new die positions? Reason I'm asking, is that if I end up making 100 or more lights, I'd rather not have to spend the time sanding down reflectors...just wondering.

Fair questions!

A caliper would be the best way to measure the height of the reflector. As far as plans go, this is a sore subject for me since I have yet to get a straight and firm answer from Lumileds (via Future). I was given the impresion that Lumileds has reverted back to the original pedestal height and that current inventory of LED's with the new sink would have the original height and not be "jokers". I purchased 500 Luxeon III's based on this understanding. Every one of them is a joker!

Ironically, for me, in the case of the deeper reflectors, I find I prefer the beam I am getting by having the die .015" behind the focal point of the reflector. I finished a new Ti light for myself last night and experimented with both the stock as well as joker tuned reflector and opted for the stock 20 mm.

At present, the only reflector I have redesigned and ordered for the "J" is an McR-18-J. I have some of these on order for the shoppe and any builder who might want some. I do have drawinngs for the 27L-J as well but these have not been ordered. I am starting to provide these McR reflectors to other builders and manufacturers and depending on qty needed and viability in general, these reflectors can be altered for the Jokers or even altered for specific build requirements. I am open to exploring any variations which have some potential.

If Lumileds is going to stay with the new die location on the Luxeon III's then I will have to consider that on re orders of reflectors. If in fact they are going to move back to the original but unspecified height of the die prior to the heat sink change, then this will need to be considered.

The McR line came to be primarily for designs I have been building. The line now has some life beyond my projects and I want to support this growth if and when possible. I am moving away from personal build projects and designs so availablity of reflectors will ultimately be a function of aftermarket demand as well as OEM and other builder's support and usage. At present, I have a near full time job doing contract work for other flashlight programs so it is becoming less likely that I will be engaged in many new programs of my own design and doing. I have components on hand and coming in which represent enough builds and time to move well into 2006 (provided there is any demand for my lights! )

[Geogecko]

Good points! Ah, now I see where the name Joker comes from.

I sent you an e-mail, before I fully had time to read your response here. Based on what you have said, it sounds like you may be too busy...

So would you recommend the 20mm reflector for my application (~100 feet of throw)? That is more of what I was leaning towards. That is the reflector used in the PD, correct?