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Thread: "McR- xx" Reflectors

  1. #91

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Geogecko,
    Yeah, sorry, way too busy!

    The 20 mm is more efficient due to its greater depth and yes, it is the reflector used in the Aleph 2 as well as PD.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  2. #92
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    What would I expect to see by using the 20mm reflector with a Lux V WWOT?

    I'm starting to think that may be the way to go. In an outdoor test, with a PD, U2 and a Light & Motion HID, the throw of the PD was quite a bit more than the HID, but the side spill was lacking (compared to the HID). When comparing the U2 to the HID, the side spill was quite a bit more, and the throw was more in line with the HID.

    I realize that the PD and U2 have different sizes of reflectors, so, what I'm wondering, is what a Lux V would give me with a PD reflector (20mm).

    I was going to use two Lux III's in this design, but think I could get away with one Lux V, and cut most costs down by $35.

  3. #93

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    By trimming off the top McR18, it fits perfect on JIL CR2. Thanks, Don.

    Warren,

  4. #94
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Really...what does the MCR-18 reflector give you in terms of a beam pattern?

  5. #95

    Popcorn Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    more intense center beam with Fenix-like-sidespill...

  6. #96
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Geogecko ... here are close-ups of a LuxV in a McR-20:






    ... and here's the comparison with a range of other McR-xx with a LuxV and LuxIII.

    In all those shots the typical variables (camera settings, surroundings, target, ...) have been the same as have been the LuxV and LuxIII LEs for maximum comparability.






    And here are some classics for a comparison in thesame setting:




    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
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  7. #97

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    shot w/ LuxV with McR-18, maybe?

  8. #98
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    @ 22,000 lux with the HOLA!!! (You know you have too much light, when you still can't see what you're looking at!)

    Thanks for all that Bernie.

    I like what I'm seeing with the LuxV and the 20mm reflector. A nice broad beam, with just a little throw mixed in. The larger reflectors seem to lose side spill, in an effort to have more throw, at least, if what I'm looking at is correct.

    I think I'm set on the 20mm reflectors. I've got some on order from the Sandwich Shoppe. I'm liking those WWOT LuxV Star's they have too, but wow, $44! I'm opting for the WO, because it seems like things look more real with that tint, at least, when looking at grass, trees, and what not. I'm basing this on a comparison between the HID and the U2 (which seems to have a more cyan tint to it's LED), and then, of course, my PD. I like the cool tint of the PD (which I think is a YO) for the tasks that I use it for, but outside, I like the tint of the U2.

    So, I assume that the DB917 is a DownBoy regulator @ 917mA? Spec. on a LuxV is 700mA. If I heat sink the LuxV's really well, can I assume that 1A is a safe thing to do, or should I shoot for closer to 900mA?

    [Edit: Oh, and Don, thanks for providing a source for screws, that is MUCH better, $4 for a box of 100, versus $155 for a box of 100!!!]
    Last edited by Geogecko; 11-23-2005 at 03:42 PM.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Uh ... Geogecko ... a word of caution !!!

    In an Aleph2 head you need to be very careful about heat ... and driving a LuxV at spec (700mA) is toomuch for that head in constant burn. 917mA overdrive is nuts!
    I chose the 917mA for this comparison but would never use it in this small head!!!!

    Also ... there are beam artifacts in the LuxV / 20mm combo (rings in my case ... you see them in the first pic upon closer inspection) and you might need to shim the LE a but away from the reflector to smooth out the beam.

    And yes, it is basically a flood light.

    Another option would be the Aleph19 head which gives a concentrated flood with an acceptable beam quality with any LED you might slap in there ... it's rather cool and I actually rpefer the 19mm over the 20mm for the LuxV.

    Some pics:

    Aleph19 LuxV:


    Aleph19 LuxV 400mA vs. SF L4 (stock at 660mA)

    less exposure:


    McR19 LuxIII:


    McR19 vs McR20 (LuxIII):



    In those pics the LEs are not shimmed and just screwed in ... and with any LED you get an acceptable beam that can be further improved with shimming in some cases.

    Other examples with the Aleph19:






    Some other shots of interest:




    Aleph19 BB400 LuxV (underexposed)


    SF L4 stock 660mA same shootout:



    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
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  10. #100
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Bernie.

    I'm planning on using this combination in a bike light that I'm making, not in an Aleph head. I think I'll have enough mass to warrant driving it at least at spec. I think the block under the Lux's will be between 0.25" and 0.50" thick, and it will probably be a 2" head or so, with a solid amount of mass as well.

    So you think the 19mm reflector would be better than the 20mm? How do you shim the reflector up from the Lux? Better yet, was is the best method of attaching the reflector, if not counting on the bezel holding it in place? I may need to rethink that idea.

    Thank you for all your help. I'm sure it's not easy going through all those pictures.

    I'm not sure the rings would bother me too much, but if it was obvious when looking at terrain, then I'd probably want it better than that.

    I still need to order the LuxV. I've got the LuxIII's on the way, along with the 20mm reflectors.

  11. #101
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    The rings are a white-wall problem only.
    And yes, I think the 19mm is far better with a LuxV than the 20mm as it gives you a "concentrated flood" that has some throw and only the hint of a hotspot, meaning you don't have any annoying brightness shifts in your beam.
    I never considered the LuxV in a 20mm a good choice, but the 19mm is very cool with the LuxV.
    Of course that is IMHO and YMMV.

    As for those tech-questions ... might wanna ask in the McGizmo or Homemade Forum? Better in the Homemade I think ...

    Nope, not easy doing those pics, but it's worth it as I can use them over and over

    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  12. #102

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiessling
    ...And yes, I think the 19mm is far better with a LuxV than the 20mm as it gives you a "concentrated flood" that has some throw and only the hint of a hotspot, meaning you don't have any annoying brightness shifts in your beam.
    I never considered the LuxV in a 20mm a good choice, but the 19mm is very cool with the LuxV.
    Of course that is IMHO and YMMV.
    Did you lift up 19mm reflector 0.06" above of Luxeon as Don recommended ?

  13. #103
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Guess I'll have to order a 19mm reflector to go with the LuxV when I order it. Thanks again for the beamshots. That helps a whole lot, and keeps me from having to try options that don't look like they work.

  14. #104
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Nope, I did not lift up anything, and as the LE is a rather old one I don't think it could have been a "Joker" either. The beams of the McR-19 weren't artifact-free (as you can see), but good enough and outside those few artifacts won't matter anyway.
    But for the most beautiful beam you'd have to shim I guess
    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  15. #105

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    can someone please do a McR-18 w/LuxV beamshots.. Thanks

  16. #106

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Warren,
    Shimming the reflector off the the LED is required to bring the image into the focal point but you do lose light out the side. For a flood beam the McR-19 works surprisingly good on the Luxeon, especially the 5W, dropped all the way down. I have some first article 19 mm reflectors comming in next month which I have designed for fixed lighting and I hope will provide minimal hot spot and artifacts. They will hopefully be a good and tight flood of relatively even light disbursment. They might have some applications in portable task light applications and then again maybe not.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  17. #107
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Hmm...well, I'm hoping to get a little throw out of the 5W, not a lot, but just a little. I have a BL-3000 that will be taking care of the flood, but of course, it is very wide angle, so even if the 19mm reflector is a flood beam, it will still throw further than the BL-3000.

    I guess I'll have to try some out. If I needed, I may just have the guy that's doing the housing, make me some shims. For now, I could just use some card stock to shim it, and get the thickness just right, then measure it, to get the thickness I would need from the aluminum shims, or whatever they will be made of.

  18. #108
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo
    Warren,
    Shimming the reflector off the the LED is required to bring the image into the focal point but you do lose light out the side. For a flood beam the McR-19 works surprisingly good on the Luxeon, especially the 5W, dropped all the way down. I have some first article 19 mm reflectors comming in next month which I have designed for fixed lighting and I hope will provide minimal hot spot and artifacts. They will hopefully be a good and tight flood of relatively even light disbursment. They might have some applications in portable task light applications and then again maybe not.
    Will you be selling these through the Sandwich Shoppe?

    Also, what beam angle is this new reflector going to be? I know a lot of bike reflectors are either 10 or 15 degree reflectors.

  19. #109

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    It will be up to Wayne if he wants to handle these reflectors loosly on the shoppe. It wouldn't surprise me. However, these are a flood reflector! The viewing angle is about 42 degrees by design but that is based on a infinitely small image source. I designed it specifically for use with the Nichia Jupiter for a fixed light program but it does provide an interesting flood pattern with the Luxeon LED's. There are a few bands of illumination that are not too sharp in contrast from one to the other. There is a center spot that is brightest and it may be within your tighter beam angles but I haven't had the time or priority of evaluating this reflector beyond its intended use.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

  20. #110
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    If the new reflector has a 42 degree viewing angle, what is the current 19mm reflector designed for?

    Also, if you don't mind, I'd be interested in what the viewing angles for the 20 and 18mm reflectors.

    I guess there is more to understand about viewing angle. Some light on the 10 degree bike light reflectors comes out just past the light (basically lighting from 170 or so degrees), but I guess the idea is that most of the light is in the 10 degree viewing angle, at least, if I understand that correctly.

    It may just require me getting a few reflectors, and seeing which one I like best. I've already got a couple 20mm ones, and plan to order one of the 19mm ones that the SS has in stock. If neither of those two look like what I want, then I may consider getting an 18mm and one of the new 19mm if they become available.

    Thanks for your help.

  21. #111
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    What's the best way to re-size one of these reflectors? I may have to shave off about 1mm from the OD of a McR-27. My fanciest tool is a Dremel.

    Length looks OK, but since I brought it up: how safe is it to sand off these reflectors from the top to reduce their length (just a tad bit, of course). Any ill effects on the reflective coating, reflective properties, etc.?

  22. #112
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    I am sure I am just missing it, but could someone point me to a beam shot of a Lux III with the 18mm reflector - please.

  23. #113

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    GreenLED,
    Sanding should be fine. The reflective coating is very easy to scratch so be careful. The coating is a film in itself and where possible work the cutting tool into the aluminum as opposed to the force lifting the reflective coating away from the al. A good file may do a better job for you.

    HarryN,
    I don't know of any beam shots off hand but if you can find one of the Orb raw, you will be looking at a McR-18.
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  24. #114
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    The McRs are, IMO, the best photon-management solutions existant for LS LEDs. (Don't let it go to your head, Don!) One of these days, I"m going to design a light based on a reflector, rather than a cell. (You know, Thread the front of one for a bezel ring/window, glue a .20"-thick light eng. to the back of it, and thread the rear of it for a 2-stage batt. case! )

    Larry
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  25. #115

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Larry,
    I hear you! I did glue a window right into the front of a 38mm and threaded the rear for the back end business. It reminded me of a hermit crab out of its shell.

    ***********

    BTW, The shoppe now has some McR-18-J reflectors on hand.
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  26. #116
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Don.

    I've got a lot of choices now, and I think by now, you know my application. However, I think I have changed how I was doing things.

    Instead of using a BL-3000 LE, I'm just going to go with 3 Luxeon LED's.

    1. What I'm wondering now, is with the 5W LED's, assuming they are Jokers, what reflector would you recommend for a nice flood beam (good amount of side spill). I noticed your 18mm reflector is now available as a -J variation. Several people here (maybe just you?) have recommended the 19mm (not a -J version, dropped all the way down). Are you planning a 19-J to be available?

    2. What would you recommend for a LuxIII to provide a wide spot beam? Almost no sidespill needed, but a wide spot?

    3. What about a LuxV to provide a wide spot beam?

    Ideally, it would be nice if the reflectors used for the LuxIII and the LuxV are the same length, but this probably isn't likely, if I use two different sizes.

    Thanks.

  27. #117

    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Geogecko,
    I am not sure what your application is but my memory is shot and mind cluttered.

    The McR-19 was not designed for the Luxeon joker or regular. It was designed for the Cree 7090 so when it is used with the Luxeons, the focal alignment is way off. The result though is a prety good flood. I have no idea if it is what you are after. You also have the option of going for efficiency of light transmision in exchange for a quality beam. To this end, you might be better served using an optic lens like a hemisphere or full sphere of acrylic.

    If I am following your beam discription correctly, the best example I have seen is with a half ball in front of a LED.

    There's no free ride here, get some parts and get to your bench!
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  28. #118
    Flashaholic Geogecko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Quote Originally Posted by McGizmo
    Geogecko,
    I am not sure what your application is but my memory is shot and mind cluttered.

    There's no free ride here, get some parts and get to your bench!
    1. A bike light.
    2. Darn, I was hoping I could get away with it.

    Sounds like I need to buy an 18-J and a 19. I've got a couple 20's already.

    I was hoping to be able to run all 3 LED's off of one series circuit (most efficient), but if I wanted to provide the ability to not only dim, but to turn some of the LED's completely off, I'd have to have a couple on one circuit, and a single on another...not exactly a cheap or simple driver design.

    Anyway, I guess I'll have to experiement a little. I don't mind having a few reflectors lying around, as they aren't all that expensive. It's the LuxV's that get a little on the expensive side...

    I was hoping to not have to use an optical lens in from of the LED. I was hoping to use saphire lenses...
    Last edited by Geogecko; 12-06-2005 at 12:18 PM.

  29. #119
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Geogecko,

    Not sure what picture you've got in your head, sounds like a three reflector light with a combination of spot and flood.

    Something I think you need to consider is the LDF lens. It will kill most of the spot while enhancing the spill of most any reflectored light. For instance, three McR-20s, with a combination of LDF and clear lenses would do nicely for your needs I think. One to one comparison, a McR-20 with LDF lens would be more satisfactory than one McR-19 for your use I'd think.

    I'd suggest you remove the variable of the jokers from your thinking. Just because there's a difference, doesn't mean that difference is relevant, and in your case I doubt it is. Also, the difference in the basic natures of the reflectors dwarfs any difference in focus the joker may make.

    The LuxV doesn't really work with the McR-20 me thinks. And it's a pain to deal with as the relationship between Vf and V-in is problematic with normal power sources - i.e. 3V batteries - and the drivers available. A single McR-27 with LuxV would make an interesting bike light though, if you could arrive at the right drive level. It has a HUGE spill area and a fairly diffused spot - your basic wall of light.

    I just bet though, if you got three McR-20s, three LDF lenses and three LUXIIIs (like Fred's TWOHs) and played around with where you put the LDFs (all three, or maybe one clear in the center and LDF to the sides) you'd have a functional, small, easily driven package that you'd be very happy with.
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  30. #120
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    Default Re: "McR- xx" Reflectors

    Bob, thanks for the advice.

    Where would I get an LDF? Does the Sandwich Shoppe carry them?

    Your idea is exactly what I had in mind. I was wanting to have a couple different types of beams available, but ideally, want to use the same reflectors, and same Lux's, if possible.


    I was wanting to use the LuxV's, because I was planning on using some WWOT bin's, which provide about 170 lumens each (so they say...), so that's about 510 lumens of output, which is about what I'm looking for.

    I was planning on using an 11.1V Li-Ion 4Ah battery pack with this light. The driver will be a custom design, constant current, buck-boost regulator.

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