Personal opinion on rescue priorities and integrity

I have been working at our Taskforce command post ever since the hurricane hit. There is an ongoing animal rescue effort at the back of the compound. Because we supported their effort, we gave them internet access for roughly 10 days and initially allowed them to use some of our computers to send out reports as they needed (no longer though, we are standing down the command post).

As a whole I have never met a more arrogant, self-righteous, (and now thieving) bunch. The professional people there have been quite decent, but some of their volunteers (but not all of course) are acting like they are on a mission from God and that nothing can be allowed to hamper them. They have started looting from our supplies for the hurricane survivors to support their people. They have taken over more of the site than they are leasing, and then been abusive to the people that own then place when they were called on it. They have stolen gasoline out of our tanks that was intended for law enforcement vehicles. Deputies have been forced to deal with them several times, and some have been written criminal summons due to their behavior. A few have been banned from the property.

I will personally NEVER donate any funds to any of the organizations there, but then again I may not ever donate to the Red Cross either after this. One of the professional vets that we have spoken with suggested unofficially that maybe 60-80% of the animals there might have to be put down. Random groups of well-intended but misguided individuals are going into New Orleans and collecting every stray that they see and overwhelming the animal rescue effort with animals that are so sick that they should have been put down when they were found. It is a tragic situation and I appreciate where these people's hearts are, but their behavior and lack of civility to the humans sharing the site may well end up getting them kicked out.

ADDING:
The comments above are addressing the pet rescue, not the horse rescue. Everyone that I have spoken with has said that the Horse rescue people are a good bunch.

Please understand, I am not trying to start any argument or flame war or anything of the sort. I have very limited internet access right now and may not check this thread for several days. My point is that if these agencies should have better command and control in place over their volunteers and better pre-planned logistics in place. I know that these people are working out of the goodness of their hearts, but they need to get their heads straight about the process as well.

Re: PLEASE help the animals

Thanks Danny for that post. I would hope that isn't the situation everywhere. I certainly respect one's right to love and respect their pets and other animals as well. We don't own a dog at the present for a reason. We've had to get rid of two dogs due to moves. These dogs were hand trained by my wife (who indeed knows how to train them) and they certainly became "part of the family".

I never want to be in the position to have to get rid of another "member of the family" like that again.

However, as humans we need to realize that there indeed is a priority to survival. My pets would NEVER have that priority over a human life. I've said this here and there, perhaps in private...but if there is 1 baby, child, adult who is hungry and needs help - they are at the top of my list. Humans first.

I am compassionate but realistic. We need a system of checks and balances. For example, there are "radical groups" who could communicate their protests without the radical means & methods that they use. Their actions are detrimental to their cause. Maybe there is a time and a place to "block" an active whaling ship - I don't know - not my "area of expertise" thankfully. I don't mean to say that the folks that you've described are guilty of crimes to the extent of other "radical groups", but on a smaller level - they are.

I know the folks who want to help the animals "think" they are doing the right thing, they are full of passion towards their cause. That's a very good thing, but there has to be a prioritized task list with respect to the rest of the team. These folks you've described to us have are working against their cause and they don't even know it. Perhaps there are animals that could have been rescued, but will not be due to their actions.

In my years in the USAF, and in other jobs that I've held in the transportation and disposal of hazardous materials & wastes, emergency response to incidents...there has always been training, a chain of command, prioritized checklists & actions...TEAMWORK, etc. They are "part" of a team, that's part of a bigger team...everyone has to do their part for it to work or the machine breaks!

I'm sure a lot of these folks want to help reaaaaal bad, but perhaps have no training in such an event. It's sad, I'm not defending them - just trying to rationalize/figure out why they seem to be doing more harm than good.

Sorry for the ramble, but we as humans have got to be sensible and not let the "forest be clouded by the trees" in a situation like this. I can't imagine them breaking the law, stealing gas & supplies from your organization or anyone for that matter. They are causing more harm than good.

Hopefully it was an isolated group, but not likely.

Re: PLEASE help the animals

sig ya know i like u freind but i think a my dog as any other family memebr he sure is nicer lol

Re: PLEASE help the animals

The thread from which this was taken was a humanitarian request for animal rescue. While the new topic introduced may be worthy of discussion, within that thread it was disruptive to it's goals.

I've created, and moved your posts to it's own thread for you to discuss the topic, without impact to the other.

all i know is the only person i know for sure 100% loved me was my dog so .ihave a place in my heart for all dogs they love for no reasons as a money or wealtyh or cars they just love ya

let me also say all dog owners feel the same and they have nothing left at least give em there dogs

Thanks for the inside report, revolvergeek. There has been lots of vagueness in the national news reports since the onset of the gulf tragedy and it's nice to get these first hand reports from you, Chop and others.

Interesting first-hand report. Thanks

I'm starting to really think it is time (well, I've always thought this way) that individuals, families and neighborhoods take charge of their own rescue and survival needs, and get the dang bureaucrats of every level and the "do-gooder" groups out of the "business".

Yeah, I'm over-reacting and probably less than half the populace could actually take care of themselves in an emergency, even given the training and equipment to do so.... But if our society was capable of self-sufficiency, we could do things more promplty, efficiently and with a lower price-tag than the way things are now. :candle:

raggie, raggie, raggie, you didn't comprehend my words (or I didn't explain it well enough).

It's not about how you feel about your dog, I agree with you. It's about how these people who think they are "rescuing" animals are actually hurting their mission.

They are acting and thinking out of emotion & misprioritized passion - thus clouding their judgement, resulting in illegal acts that are actually causing animals to "NOT" get rescued now.

Actions such as theirs will "turn more people off" to their cause than to promote it. It's working on me!

I have to wonder about some people though. Some give me the impression that if a pet and a fellow human being were in a situation where only one could be rescued or fed - they would rescue the pet?!

I'll leave it at that - this could easily get into one of those threads where folks feel the need to argue/present their case as to why they would rescue that pet instead of the person and IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT AT ALL! Again letting emotion and passion cloud judgement....

Sigman said:

<<snip They are acting and thinking out of emotion & misprioritized passion - thus clouding their judgement, resulting in illegal acts that are actually causing animals to "NOT" get rescued now.

Actions such as theirs will "turn more people off" to their cause than to promote it. It's working on me!

snip>>...

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Couldn't have said it better Sigman:thumbsup:

Jim

Empath,

Although I might debate the 'tangental' part, I appreciate you moving it and not deleteing or editing the post. The 'personal opinion' title is apt because I do not speak for any individual or agency involved in the rescue effort other than myself. Yesterday was the first day that I have worked less than twelve hours since the hurricane hit and I am somewhat worn around the edges. I am an animal lover and I have had pets all my life (two cats in the house right now, one outside and two tanks full of fish) and it worries me to see people giving their hard earned money to 'organizations' that do not use it well.

Sigman got my point right on the head in his summation for Raggie. The problem *to me* is that many of the volunteers in the animal rescue project are making enemies of the people that could help them the most on future rescues (cops/deputies/firemen) and could be helping them more now.

First to Sigman: I'm very sorry about your dogs...we may not realize the consequences of our acts at the time, only to be painfully reminded for the rest of our lives.

I appreciate this first-hand report, but must emphasize that it doesn't represent ALL animal-rights activists/organizations. I do however relate with their sentiments, while condemning those particular actions.

That said, I admit to similar feelings in support of many neglected or mistreated human beings and other creatures, whose existence is marginalized and taken for granted, particularly helpless young children.

Personally, I find too many in positions of authority have a tendency to take themselves way too seriously, especially when assuming sole responsibility over others' lives...

A little God-given humility, plus a healthy understanding of the difference between compassion and pity, could prove sobering in these difficult situations.

Undoubtedly significant decisions must be made in the heat of the moment and one is often caught up in the excitement; however such power too easily inflates perceived self-importance, to the detriment of all.

Americans' intensely critical introspection is one of the country's greatest strengths, IMHO. There will be plenty of food-for-thought coming out in the wash, after this horrendous event has passed.

Meanwhile, from what I've read, Noah's Wish has the most professional effective approach to the animal problem, specializing in natural disasters as they do. My $$$ will support them.

I attended a vegetarian food fair here in Toronto yesterday, but only one of the many rights organizations had ever heard of them, although their reports were apparently very positive.

I'm in no position to judge ANYONE trying to help, actively sacrificing themselves on the scene, under such awful circumstances. My prayers, gratitude and heartfelt respects go out to each of you.

God bless!!!

Sigman said:

I have to wonder about some people though. Some give me the impression that if a pet and a fellow human being were in a situation where only one could be rescued or fed - they would rescue the pet?!

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The thing is that such a hypothetical black-and-white situation rarely exists in the real world. Many pets consume far less food than humans, so feeding one might only mean that the humans might eat a little less, not starve. If things were so dire that even the survival of the humans was in question, then maybe this might be an issue but that's not the case there. Once you're out of the disaster zone there's more than enough food. This isn't an end of the world scenario here. The simple fact is that this animal crisis was manmade by arbitrary rules which prevented people from bringing their pets to shelters, or even now by rescuers who refuse to take these pets even as they take their owners. It's simple lack of planning. Everyone and everything could have been provided for had plans been on the books and implemented for such a crisis. Because there were no plans, both man and beast are suffering. I'll grant that the animal rescuers acting like a bunch of common criminals is inexcuseable, but given the rumors that animals are beings arbitrarily shot I understand their haste to rescue as many as possible.

Oh, and given a choice between rescuing a pet and some of the two-legged animals down there, I'd chose the pet in a heartbeat and put the human out of their misery. I simply can't abide by a blanket statement that a human being always takes precendence over a pet. Usually yes, but some human lives are simply not worth a damned thing. You have scores of people down there who never contributed anything to society, and chose to make a career of victimizing their fellow human beings. Rescue them? I wouldn't do so if I gun was put to my head.

Don't know if it is on topic but I was volunteering with a friend of mine for some time in an animal rights organization and once or twice attended their meetings..

Well there were some great people but must say also more than a few veeery strange people too...

Looking like a cult almost sometimes, just like having the values messed up and giving almost fanatic importance to not so important issue.. I mean I have nothing against a little hard work to help those animals sometimes in bead weather and terrain conditions and all, but that does not mean that I'll make them more important than my family or something, to make them a "center of universe" and talk all the day round only about them with such pathetic expressions...
And all that strange stories and gossips... I think a lot of people there were some frustrated individuals that desperately need something to be occupied with, to make them feel important or something... I seriously think that at least two or tree among prominent members might have psychiatric diagnosis

eventually we got enough and left...

Even their actions on the TV or the newspapers we see from time to time... well I don't know, maybe that's my problem of not understanding them but things like marching nude or locking oneself in cages... don't know what will this achieve? Attention for sure but I don't think people will take them seriously...

I'm sorry though as I agree with their ideals but unfortunately this methods and the people at least in my opinion can make only an bed effect on public opinion.
Help the animals, give a few lectures, stamp the materials (and with sound scientific bases if possible) and stay down to earth - that is what I would like to see and not a bunch of eider hippielike people or old women lost in time and space or some psychically challenged individuals and some with questionable motives...

Well there are a lot of organizations, might very well be that that one was just a bed example...

They would think same way about us probably though

I mean, I appreciate their effort, support their ideals, avoid wan there is a reasonable substitute leather materials, don't eat meet, feel bed to see animals suffer from human hands without a reason and all that but just don't feel comfortable around fanatics of any type.

Peta types creep me out...

More bureaurcracy equals less personal, with individuals always the victims, intentional or not. However, those whose main job appears to be acquiring increasing control over others, while carefully protecting their own pampered asses, ought to be tarred and feathered, then run out of town. Instead they're usually protected by those of similar ilk, once again bamboozling the general public.

Political power struggles infest every group...my local 'humane' society euthanized one poor old stay cat I'd brought in for a medical exam, after assuring me it would be returned and in spite of offers to adopt it, just to prove who was in charge to a particular board member. For these people, co-operation becomes a potential threat, with all of us seen as fuel for their ambitions. Honestly, it makes me want to puke!

Speaking as someone who has helped to find and manage "volunteers" It can be ludicriously hard to find people that are willing to do a good job and not get that exact attitude.

I've decided that people not getting paid often seem to think that they are above any law or any management requests. Since they aren't getting paid they can do whatever the heck they want sort of thing. And sadly I've seen people steal from the organizations that they are supposedly giving their time and effort to. My mother in law helps to manage the local volunteer group that raises money for our local humane society and she will tell you the same.

For short term things, or for a few hours a week, you can get some excellent people, but for longer term projects like this, it doesn't matter how well intentioned, you'll only be getting people that can't hold down, or can't get regular jobs because of exactly the same problems that you're seeing in them.

Dont judge the whole organization by this though, what you're seeing is not the norm, eventually they do locate and work with some really incredible people, you just can't post a sign and get a whole lot of them on short notice thats all.

2dim said:

There will be plenty of food-for-thought coming out in the wash, after this horrendous event has passed.

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Hopefully many lessons will be learned and faults corrected!!

I sorta see things jtr1962's way... some animals of the 4 leg types are WAY better than more than a few hundred thousand 2 leg types.

That said, going absolutely crazy about anything isn't always good.

DarkLight said:

Peta types creep me out...

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I'm a member of Peta......

People Eating Tasty Animals.:naughty: