Pilot in need of a good light.

Alin10123 · Oct 29, 2005

Hey guys,
I tried doing a search for threads on a good light for a pilot but it just sort of came up with a ton of threads but none of them were really specific to my questions.

Is there any light you guys recommend?
Basically it's going to need to be able to do a few things. It's got to have a dim feature so that i can read maps and charts and stuff at night. I have seen the A2 Aviator. Which LED color am i supposed to get to preserve my night vision and stuff be able to read everything on the charts? I've heard conflicting of red or the yellow/green.

Also, the A2 aviator has a brighter Xenon bulb. However, that xenon bulb is only 50 lumens. Is is 50 lumens really that bright? I need to be able to walk around the plane at night to check on certain things like leaks, brake conditions, fuel sump, and just basic exterioe checklists. There will be some lighting at the airport tarmacs and stuff. The lighting wont be bright enough for me to see all of those things. But i'm sure it will take away from the effectiveness of the light.

The only other light i have right now is the elektrolumens pentalux. That's a little big since it's a 4D light. I"m looking for something a little smaller but with lots of light output and lots of throw so that i can see in case the conditions are less than ideal.

Anyone else a pilot here? Is this light bright enough? 50 lumens just seems kind of wimpy. lol

Or is there another light that you guys recommend that's better?
thanks in advance.

Bullzeyebill · Oct 29, 2005

The A2 should suffice. The A2 has been tested in a Integrating Sphere by one of our good light builders, McGizmo, at better than 70 lumens, closer to 80, I believe. The leds are fairly bright, maybe too bright for preserving night vision. Cup your hand over bezel to reduce glare, and reduce lumen output of leds. A2 is a quality light, with good customer backup. Talk to SF. Maybe they can set up an A2 for reduced led output.

Bill

Vee3 · Oct 29, 2005

I used to be a pilot. My boss would tell me to pick up this stuff here and pilot up over there (hehehe).

The A2 with red LEDs is all you'll need unless you're trying to inspect the aircraft as it flies overhead. 50 lumens is really plenty enough.

NotRegulated · Oct 29, 2005

Ditto. Surefire A2. Check out Opticshq.com. CPF discount.

Alin10123 · Oct 29, 2005

Bullzeyebill said:
The A2 should suffice. The A2 has been tested in a Integrating Sphere by one of our good light builders, McGizmo, at better than 70 lumens, closer to 80, I believe. The leds are fairly bright, maybe too bright for preserving night vision. Cup your hand over bezel to reduce glare, and reduce lumen output of leds. A2 is a quality light, with good customer backup. Talk to SF. Maybe they can set up an A2 for reduced led output.

Bill

is 70 lumens bright? I really have no idea.

frettedfive · Oct 29, 2005

Alin10123 said:
Hey guys,
I tried doing a search for threads on a good light for a pilot but it just sort of came up with a ton of threads but none of them were really specific to my questions.

Is there any light you guys recommend?
Basically it's going to need to be able to do a few things. It's got to have a dim feature so that i can read maps and charts and stuff at night. I have seen the A2 Aviator. Which LED color am i supposed to get to preserve my night vision and stuff be able to read everything on the charts? I've heard conflicting of red or the yellow/green.

Also, the A2 aviator has a brighter Xenon bulb. However, that xenon bulb is only 50 lumens. Is is 50 lumens really that bright? I need to be able to walk around the plane at night to check on certain things like leaks, brake conditions, fuel sump, and just basic exterioe checklists. There will be some lighting at the airport tarmacs and stuff. The lighting wont be bright enough for me to see all of those things. But i'm sure it will take away from the effectiveness of the light.

The only other light i have right now is the elektrolumens pentalux. That's a little big since it's a 4D light. I"m looking for something a little smaller but with lots of light output and lots of throw so that i can see in case the conditions are less than ideal.

Anyone else a pilot here? Is this light bright enough? 50 lumens just seems kind of wimpy. lol

Or is there another light that you guys recommend that's better?
thanks in advance.

Don't let the 50 lumen rating of the A2 fool you... I think SureFire was being a bit conservative when they rated this one. I'll put the beam of my A2 up against the beam of my 9P (105 lumens with a P90 lamp), and I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell much of a difference. It's quite staggering the amount of pure, white light these little things can throw. The biggest plus of the A2, in my opinion, (and the reason for its higher cost) is the regulation circuitry for the incandescent bulb. What this means is that you will get a consistent white beam through the majority of the juice in the batteries. Only when they're about to be sucked dry will the light start to turn dim and yellow. It also means that your bulb life will be lengthened, thanks to the "soft start" that the circuit provides.

As for being bright enough to perform pre-flight checks at night, you must realize that this is exactly the task SureFire intended this light to be used for. They claim it will illuminate the tail of a 747 parked on the tarmac, and I believe them. My A2 has been seeing a lot of use recently at my friends house. We've been using it to assist with some restoration work on a '73 Ford pickup he recently bought. Even in broad daylight the A2 will perform admirably when called upon to light up the shadowy underside of the truck or a darkened corner of the engine compartment.

With the regulated incandescent bulb being so nice, the LED feature of the A2 is just the icing on the cake. Mine is equiped with the fairly new yellow-green LEDs. My friend has one with red LEDs. While red is certainly the best choice for preserving your night-adjusted vision, color recognition for reading maps can suffer. The yellow-green LEDs put out a very soft, pleasing light. I find that it's very easy to read text by this light. However, like with the red (or any colored LED for that matter), color recognition on maps and the like can suffer. The opinion seems to be that white LEDs offer the best color recognition, but at the expense of being harder on your adjusted eyes.

I love having it with me when I travel, because the amount of light produced by the LEDs is just perfect for navigating unfamiliar hotel rooms. It lives on the nightstand in my room whenever I retire for the evening. I think that you should give the A2 a try. I feel that it will be plenty bright enough for your purposes, despite the seemingly lower-than-the-average-SureFire lumen rating. Plus, it offers multiple levels of light and it fits comfortably in your pocket! Try doing that with a D-cell light! Good luck in your quest for the right illumination tool.

frettedfive · Oct 29, 2005

Alin10123 said:
is 70 lumens bright? I really have no idea.

To answer your question, yes, 70 lumens is pretty bright. Consider the following...

A quick search (someone please verify this if possible) revealed that a 4D-cell mag lite produces approximately 59 lumens, is approximately 14 inches long, 1.6 inches in diameter, and weighs about 37 ounces.

By contrast, the A2 puts out an estimated 70-80 lumens (again, despite the rating), is about 5.6 inches long, 1.1 inches in diameter, and weighs around 4 ounces.

One thing I just noticed in your original post is the comment about throw. Unfortunately, the one thing you're not really going to get from the A2 is "lots of throw" SureFires, in general, are not really made to be long distance lights. But something tells me that if it'll throw far enough to light up the top of a 747's tail (about 6 stories high), that it'll throw far enough for your needs.

Wolfen · Oct 29, 2005

I really like the Aleph III for throw with good side spill. The light also has a two stage (high / low) switch.

From The Sandwich Shoppe

"The Aleph 3(38mm) 2x123 consists of an Aleph 3(38mm) head with a DB917 Light Engine, 2x123 powerpack and a Standard tailcap with 60 ohm McE2S 2-stage switch. "

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.c...d=602&osCsid=f9104da7069427a7521f794a5dead9fb

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/93471

Alin10123 · Oct 29, 2005

frettedfive said:
Don't let the 50 lumen rating of the A2 fool you... I think SureFire was being a bit conservative when they rated this one. I'll put the beam of my A2 up against the beam of my 9P (105 lumens with a P90 lamp), and I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell much of a difference. It's quite staggering the amount of pure, white light these little things can throw. The biggest plus of the A2, in my opinion, (and the reason for its higher cost) is the regulation circuitry for the incandescent bulb. What this means is that you will get a consistent white beam through the majority of the juice in the batteries. Only when they're about to be sucked dry will the light start to turn dim and yellow. It also means that your bulb life will be lengthened, thanks to the "soft start" that the circuit provides.

As for being bright enough to perform pre-flight checks at night, you must realize that this is exactly the task SureFire intended this light to be used for. They claim it will illuminate the tail of a 747 parked on the tarmac, and I believe them. My A2 has been seeing a lot of use recently at my friends house. We've been using it to assist with some restoration work on a '73 Ford pickup he recently bought. Even in broad daylight the A2 will perform admirably when called upon to light up the shadowy underside of the truck or a darkened corner of the engine compartment.

With the regulated incandescent bulb being so nice, the LED feature of the A2 is just the icing on the cake. Mine is equiped with the fairly new yellow-green LEDs. My friend has one with red LEDs. While red is certainly the best choice for preserving your night-adjusted vision, color recognition for reading maps can suffer. The yellow-green LEDs put out a very soft, pleasing light. I find that it's very easy to read text by this light. However, like with the red (or any colored LED for that matter), color recognition on maps and the like can suffer. The opinion seems to be that white LEDs offer the best color recognition, but at the expense of being harder on your adjusted eyes.

I love having it with me when I travel, because the amount of light produced by the LEDs is just perfect for navigating unfamiliar hotel rooms. It lives on the nightstand in my room whenever I retire for the evening. I think that you should give the A2 a try. I feel that it will be plenty bright enough for your purposes, despite the seemingly lower-than-the-average-SureFire lumen rating. Plus, it offers multiple levels of light and it fits comfortably in your pocket! Try doing that with a D-cell light! Good luck in your quest for the right illumination tool.

wow, thanks for the insight.
You mentioned that you would easily put it up against your p90 lamp that is rated at 105 lumens. What about the L2? That's rated at 100. Would you said it would easily outthrow and is brighter than that? or a light like the E2D that's only rated at 60 lumens?
I guess i got confused while searching through the threads on the aviator. One member here i believed mentioned that he classified the A2 in his "better than no light" pile of his collection. Was that guy for real? Or did he kind of not know what he was talking about?

thanks

Grox · Oct 29, 2005

Good question. I don't know the answer to your question but I will say this: throw has less to do with lumens than it does to do with lumen management. What I mean by that is that with a good reflector which is able to focus the beam and project it well, a lower rated light may be able to out-throw a higher-rated one.

I think that the a2 with red leds would be perfect for your needs. Quite honestly, the incandescant beam of the a2 is bright enough for you to do most things with and is optimized for throw. Surefire's website says that it was designed for tail inspections of 747s and from my own experience with the light it certainly could throw that far. You won't have problems using in an aviation context but don't forget the red leds because the other colours are too bright. As well as that, the incan bulb is (I find) better for depth perception and colour rendition than an LED.

frettedfive · Oct 29, 2005

Alin10123 said:
wow, thanks for the insight.
You mentioned that you would easily put it up against your p90 lamp that is rated at 105 lumens. What about the L2? That's rated at 100. Would you said it would easily outthrow and is brighter than that?

thanks

You're welcome!

I purchased an L2 for my father's birthday present back in June. He is a towboat captain, and I thought it would make a good dual-brightness light for him to use in the wheelhouse of the boat, as well as for illuminating the darkened deck at night. He has been very pleased with it, and said that it would illuminate the sides of barges on the other side of the river from where he was (no idea about the distance involved, though) Unfortunately, upon his recent return to the boat after being home for a while it appears to be missing from its usual place in his suitcase :mecry:. We're busy looking around the house to see if he might've forgotten to pack it.

I've never had a chance to compare the two side-by-side, so I can't really comment on the differences in throw. I can say that, best that I can recall, the L2's high beam seems to be a bit brighter than the A2... to my eyes at least. I'm willing to bet, though, that it has something to do with the different color temps between the LED L2 and the incandescent A2. The L2's beam has a very bluish-white tint to it. They're both more than bright enough to inspect an aircraft at night, I feel.

Alin10123 · Oct 29, 2005

Is what makes the difference here the circuitry?
Like you were saying that you would put the P90 module up against the A2 anyday. Although the peak lumens ratings are different. With the P90 slightly higher, but with the color and the circuitry, is that what makes you say that the A2 will be brighter than the 9P with the P90 module?

thanks

coldsolderjoint · Oct 29, 2005

well.. im a pilot.. private single and multi engine land

i got about 125 hours.. mostly training tho..

heres my opionion for all its worth..

i flew a cessna 172 and a beech dutchess..

heres the coolest light ive found.. my instructor actually introduced it to me.

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=1515&CATID=169

it looks kinda gay.. but its real nice to have that thumbwheel when your hands are all tied up.. plus it is flat so it wont roll into the blackness.

i also used to keep a AA mini mag clipped in a pocket on my kneeboard.. and a back up 3D mag in the seat back pocket. both with red lenses.

i used the 3 d with clear lens for preflight.. thats what jon king recomends on his videos.

of course.. i always had plenty of extraa batteries in my flight bag..

frettedfive · Oct 29, 2005

Alin10123 said:
Is what makes the difference here the circuitry?
Like you were saying that you would put the P90 module up against the A2 anyday. Although the peak lumens ratings are different. With the P90 slightly higher, but with the color and the circuitry, is that what makes you say that the A2 will be brighter than the 9P with the P90 module?

thanks

Well, I didn't say that the A2's incandescent bulb is brighter than the P90 assembly in a 9P... they're pretty darn close, though. What I'm trying to say is that I would put them up against one another and there's not a whole lot of difference to be seen with the naked eye; despite the difference in lumens. The A2 throws a beautiful beam. To put it another way, between the 6P, the 9P, and the A2, the A2's beam is much closer in appearance and perceived brightness to the 9P (105 lumens) than the 6P (65 lumens). Granted this is all based on my observations and wholly-unscientific method of shining the lights against the white walls and ceiling of a dark room.

The voltage regulation circuitry goes a long way towards improving the appearance of its incadescent bulb when compared to other, non-regulated SureFires like the 6P with a P60 or a 9P with a P90. The more runtime you have on a set of batteries, the more you notice the difference. When the non-regulated lamps have started to dim noticeably, the A2 is still going bright and strong. The thing is, when it finally does dim you'll definitely notice it immediately. It's not a gradual ramp-down; it's more like falling off a cliff. This happened recently while working on my friends truck that I mentioned earlier. But then you just pop in some fresh 123's and it's back to beautiful white light.

Grox · Oct 29, 2005

The circuitry in the a2 does two things. 1. It mantains the brightness of the incan bulb as long as the batteries can hold up to it (50-60min). 2. Soft-starts the bulb, gradually ramping up the current in the first 50ms when you turn it on. Invisible to the human eye but means that it's rare for an a2 bulb to fail.

The circuitry doesn't really have much to do with the brightness compared to say the 9p - the 9p has a higher voltage and higher current to play with. My advice is not to worry about the lumens ratings or peak beam lux or measurements like that too much. They only give you a ballpark idea of how bright a light is.

Kris · Oct 29, 2005

The A2 would be a better choice for you. If you are ever in conditions with fog, smoke or ambiant light (like airport lighting or street lights) an incandescent light will work alot better than an LED. An incandescent beam will cut through fog or smoke better, while an LED will look like a bright wall of smoke or fog right in front of you (it's like driving in the fog with your brights on).

I also think that the L2's low output beam is way too bright for what you want. You could use a F05 red filter on the L2 that would reduce the intensity of the light some, but the F05 filter is not a flip-open style filter so you would have to remove it every time you wanted to use the high beam to inspect your plane. The A2 is not as bright when using it's LEDs (this should help preserve your night vision) and I'm not sure that red would be your best color.

In conditions with ambiant light like airport lighting, the incandescent beam of the A2 will work better.

As for colors, red is the best color to preserve night vision, but it may wash out colors on your charts and maps if they have red print. I can't really give you any advice on lighting colors for use in a cockpit, this is an important safety dicision that you will need to discuss with other pilots, try different colors yourself or research online. Maybe Surefire has researched this and can give you advice.

Check out this link:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/hotspot/articles/5079.html?PF

joema · Oct 29, 2005

Re A2 at 50 lumens, there's the spec, then there's what actual tests reveal.

Flashlightreviews.com tested the A2 and overall output was 57.5 output units, roughly equivalent to 82 lumens.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_a2.htm

By contrast they tested a 3D Mag (on new batteries) at roughly 33 lumens.

To me it's a no brainer. You're a pilot. The A2 is made specifically for that application. It has plenty of incandescent output, is regulated, plus LED output for cockpit use.

Another possibility is the HDS EDC U60 XR, which has adjustable output. It's smaller than the A2, doesn't have the same output (but still roughly 2x a 3D Mag):

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/hds_edcu60xr.htm

But you can't go wrong with the A2 for this application.

Alin10123 · Nov 1, 2005

Thanks for the input.

HarryN · Nov 1, 2005

The only comment I have about this combo, is that there are a number of subtle aspects of vision at low light levels, which can easily distort your actual experience. It does not take very much light to make the "this color is best for night vision" discussion almost meaningless.

It might be useful to pick up a few colors of a very cheap LED light and try reading your maps with them before picking the correct secondary color for your light - for your eyes.

I did a test just on my own family, and we did not pick the same colors.

Solstice · Nov 1, 2005

I agree with HarryN that at low levels, red may not be the best choice if reading is involved. While its true that it is the only color that can preserve night vision at somewhat higher intensities, it is not very easy to read with IMHO. I have recently been using an amber Photon 3 set on low as my "bare minimum" light and I find that even though it is very dim, it is comfortable to read with it.

You might consider getting a primary "bright" light and then trying different "dim" lights until you find one you like for cockpit use- dim lights can be very small and this strategy might be a cheaper and more versatile way to go about things.

In case you are interested, Photon is closing out their Photon 3 line at $12.20 a piece, shipped. These lights include a lanyard and a ball-in-socket spring clip which give you easy hands free options. The Photon 3 is cool because you can set the microprocessor switch to low constant on (won't affect night vision, long battery life) but you can get momentary full brightness (which looks about 3 times as bright to my eyes) at anytime by pressing the front switch:

http://www.photonlight.com/products/photon_3.html

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