Gladius -- strobe effectiveness?

[tm3]

anyone have a sense of how effective (effective meaning temporarily disturbing night-adapted vision) the strobe setting of the gladius is compared to other lights with high/low options like the SF A2 and L2, or for that matter a 6P or 9P with the high output bulb options?

thanks!

[johns]

I was wondering how fast the strobe is ?

The HDS says its stobe flashes 1x/second - I assume the Gladius is a lot faster ?

[greenLED]

IMO the strobe on the original Indium (puck) is far more disorienting than the Gladius'

[zespectre]

I did a little real world testing (with the aid of my wife). This was done outside at a park where we were camping. We allowed my night vision to recover some between each stage of the testing. Very subjective testing.

-My wife, standing roughly 20 ft away, turns on the strobe function while pointing the light at me.
My night vision is instantly toast and although I could certainly tell where the strobe was, I had no idea what my wife's physical location was in relation to the strobe. I could look at the light from that distance but it was very unpleasant. I probably would have instinctively charged, thrown something, or shot at, the light itself - so if it was held away from the body I would have likely missed my target.

-My wife repeats the test from roughly 10ft away.
All of the above holds true except I can no longer look at the light and was forced to either close my eyes or look away. I can see that momentary distraction being very useful to law enforcement (shock effect). I would have LOVED to have that function when I was a LEO.

-My wife repeats the test from roughly 10ft away and then rushes me while the strobe is on.
This was the shocker. I never "felt" disoriented, but apparently I lost my depth perception along with my night vision because my wife was able to run the 3-4 steps up to me and tap me on the shoulder and I was SURE that she was still standing back. It absolutely startled the crap out of me!

In LEO terms, it seems like you might (under the right conditions of course) be able to run right up and mace (or whatever) someone at point blank. Boy would that have been nice.

An additional note. In the past I've blasted Deer, Racoons, Fox, Dogs, Cats, and a young Bear with a Magcharger and/or the high power mode of an L2. The usual reaction was to stare at me. With the Gladius strobe there -tends- to be more of a look away and then wander away reaction (at least from Racoons and Dogs). It's not like they run away but they do seem to back off.

[beezaur]

I think the strobe is a few hertz.

As for effectiveness, when you are approached by a strobing Gladius, you are doing well to track the location of the light. You cannot see anything else.

My wife and I strobed each other while approaching. Her eyes got REALLY BIG and her hands instinctively went out in front to brace for impact when I was maybe 15 feet away. I strobed my 90-lb German shepherd, and he ran away. I think you could thwart a dog bite with the light. All you can see is the flashing light, and you have a very poor ability to track it and predict its path.

Not a weapon, but an extremely effective disorientation tool.

Scott

edit o add: My dog probably reacted to hearing my approaching footsteps and could not locate me otherwise. I think you will make animals uncomfortable by strobing them, since you remove their ability to see in your direction. They may opt to leave because of that. Animals generally do not like to be in positions where their senses are impaired, and will relocate to a better position. I think that is what my dog was doing.

[Lips]

Flupic chip in a Jil DD has a very nice adjustable strobe also 4-15 hz. Around $40 + Jil. Works great. Can be user set to instantly activate.

[powernoodle]

I'm only guessing here, but it would seem as though the strobe's effectiveness would be determined by the bad guy's demeanor. One might think you have a taser (especially if you were yelling that at him, which I would), one may become compliant, and another may try to take if from you and cram it up your cakehole. In a low light environment, I think its safe to say that at a minimum, it would at least briefly disorient a determined bad guy allowing you to run, deliver a baton to the coconut, or whatever was required.

I did find last week that it will cause an unhappy chihuahua to call off the attack and exfiltrate.

[beezaur]

I'm only guessing here, but it would seem as though the strobe's effectiveness would be determined by the bad guy's demeanor. . . .

More like his physiology. The chemical in your retinals that allows you to see light is flushed out with each flash. Before your retinas can recharge enough to see, another strobe comes along and flushes them out.

Literally all your retinas can detect in that direction is the strobe.

The situation on the receiving end is analogous to me waiting for my wife to finish orchestra practice. I sit and read down the hall in a waiting area, and then the janitor comes along and turns off the lights. That's pretty much it for my reading regardless of what I do. (Ok, assume I am NOT carrying two lights, I am just a "flashlight civilian" here.)

My demeanor plays a part in how I react, but not whether I can see. So it is with opponents being strobed. They might let out a kamikaze yell and try to slash you to death (blindly) or they might wet their pants and go home crying. But regardless of what they do they will not be able to see you effectively through the strobe.

Scott

[Phaserburn]

If you like the idea of a Gladius strobe, you'll LOVE the idea of a Tigerlight OC. When the bright light is removed from the subject's face, the reaction of the target is to try to reacquire visual contact with you - eyes facing you, wide open to overcome the bright TL lamp, completely unaware that the back of your flashlight, which is now pointed at him, is an OC system. So, if they charge at you, they are moving directly and vulnerably into defense mode #2, the OC.

[Luna]

My wife and I strobed each other while approaching. Her eyes got REALLY BIG and her hands instinctively went out in front to brace for impact when I was maybe 15 feet away.

I'm sorry but my mind is not where it should be.

[zespectre]

ROTFL!!! Oh stop, you're KILLING ME! He he he he he

[UVvis]

You have to see it to get it.

It is fast enough that if you are using it, it doesn't mess you up to bad, unless you are moving in a very dynamic environment (trees).

It is slow enough that the person you are using it against has their eyes freaking out trying to adapt to it.

For disrupting night adapted vision, it is as good as a 6P, 9P and A2. I'd say that the Gladius outperforms the L2 due to beam intensities, most L2's are lacking a big in this regard, they have a wall of light where the gladius has excellent throw.

It's overall ability will be related to the users abilities and awareness of the situation. I'd rather have a Gladius over the 6P, L2, and A2 easy. The 9P or similar output Z3 or M3 vs the Gladius, I'd say that the gladius is easier to use effectively due to the strobe, but they can be pretty well matched.

[JimH]

Has anyone compared the effectiveness of the Gladius vs the USL? I think we would be talking the difference between disorientation (Gladius) vs pain and blindness (USL)

[Luna]

Has anyone compared the effectiveness of the Gladius vs the USL? I think we would be talking the difference between disorientation (Gladius) vs pain and blindness (USL)

Strobe is fine on the Gladius but its effect doesnt seem consistent (though that may not be a problem with the unsuspecting). You never know when a MDMA crazed raver or old school DISCO junky is gonna attack you. I doubt they would be fazed by the gladius strobe (but it might be funny if they start dancing)

The massive wall of light and pain of the MC85 isn't so easy to shrug off if in a night adapted state, so I'd say it is more effective. That means the USL would have to take the cake. If they are close enough you can burn their retinas out (and lids, eyelashes,etc)

[powernoodle]

More like his physiology.

His physiology will determine what his retinas do. His demeanor will determine what the rest of him does.

[beezaur]

I guess what I was trying to get across with the physiology comment was that the Gladius has an uncontrollable effect on the subject -- it causes the subject to be unable to see. How the user exploits that opportunity, and what the subject does about the new situation is a matter of behavior.

In my opinion, all talk about a flashlight "doing something" to someone is quite a ways off the mark. Flashlights don't "do" anything to you. They just cause you to be unable to see -- much more effectively than a SureFire 6P, etc. SOme people under some circumstances will get dizzy, etc., but I don't think you can count on that. Really, I think being dizzy or not is beside the point. The main use of the light is in denying an opponent their vision.

My experience is that, tactically, you can pretty much move how you want around the person you are strobing without them being able to tell what you are doing. I am not a tactician by any stretch, but it is obvious to me that the strobe creates an enormous opportunity for exploitation. The light doesn't really accomplish anything for you, but it does give you an opportunity where there was none.

I hate to read some posts that seem to indicate there will be some kind of effect from use of the light alone. No one will wither and die if strobed by a Gladius. It just creates an opportunity that you can exploit.

A dog runs toward you. You strobe the dog and dodge the bite. Then you get ready for the next attempt. Use the time to grab your knife or pepper spray or gun or get ready to dodge again. Opportunity and exploit. The two go together. You have to do your part or you will take a bite.

The difference between the Gladius and comparable non-strobing lights is that the other lights degrade your vision. The Gladius wrecks your vision.

Scott

[madecov]

Well,
I used the strobe on a drunk one night when he was being a little bit less than cooperative.
He fell down. When he was cuffed and lifted up he asked why I had tazed him

The strobe works.

[beezaur]

Well,
I used the strobe on a drunk one night when he was being a little bit less than cooperative.
He fell down. When he was cuffed and lifted up he asked why I had tazed him

The strobe works.

Sorry, yes, you are right. The strobe works.

Reading some posts on the topic of tactical lights, or what to use for self defense, etc., you get the impression that there is one side saying flashlights are death rays, and another side saying a light has no effect. I think the truth is in the middle, and depends a lot upon the skill of the user.

Scott

[UVvis]

Well,
I used the strobe on a drunk one night when he was being a little bit less than cooperative.
He fell down. When he was cuffed and lifted up he asked why I had tazed him

The strobe works.

HAHAHAHA! Evidently he has never taken a ride one of those before.

Using lights in this type of roll is exactly the same as using radar jamming.

[UVvis]

Reading some posts on the topic of tactical lights, or what to use for self defense, etc., you get the impression that there is one side saying flashlights are death rays, and another side saying a light has no effect. I think the truth is in the middle, and depends a lot upon the skill of the user.

Exactly! Well put.

[Ras_Thavas]

Reading some posts on the topic of tactical lights, or what to use for self defense, etc., you get the impression that there is one side saying flashlights are death rays

I guess that is why I could not find the disintegrate setting on the darn thing

[madecov]

The Gladius strobe is just another tool in the bag of tricks

Like chemical spray's it may or may not work on a given subject.

When it comes to defensive tools there is nothing short of some "lead to the head" that is sure to stop a fight.

[JonSidneyB]

Organic things often respond in inconsistent ways.

It's more of a game of percentages then any absolutes.

[The_LED_Museum]

As far as I can determine (and this is not a measured value), the strobe speed in the Gladius is approximately 10Hz (10 flashes per second).

[mckevin]

When I had the Gladius briefly during the passaround the only unsuspecting victim I strobed was my daughter (don't want to catch the wife unsuspecting with that kind of thing...). In any case my daughter, coming out of a dark basement, responded by charging me, up a stairway...
In all fairness though, she has become pretty immune to bright lights

[joema]

The effectiveness will vary widely based on various things such as individual sensitivity, but mainly ambient light.

Human vision has an incredible dynamic range from 100,000 lux of bright sunlight to 0.001 lux of starlight (factor of 100 million). The eye adapts to ambient conditions.

Standing in bright noonday sun on white sandy beach, you could point a Gladius at someone 2 ft away and it wouldn't faze him. The ambient light level is so high, his eyes would be adapted to that and virtually any flashlight would appear dim.

OTOH if a mugger has been lurking in a very dark alley with no nearby streetlights, his eyes are almost fully dark adapted. An 80 lumen light at close range is blinding, even without a strobe.

However many night scenarios are fairly well lit, such as parking lots with bright sodium lamps. Therefore in many cases the blinding impact of a flashlight is diminished.

But the goal isn't to disable the attacker (like with mace), but to merely buy a few seconds. So it's possible an 80 lumen strobe at close range might do that under somewhat brighter ambient light than total darkness.

[zespectre]

Yes, a tactical strobe of this sort isn't supposed to be the final word in dealing with a situation. It's supposed to be a distraction for your opponent, one that you need to know how to use to your advantage.

[beezaur]

Standing in bright noonday sun on white sandy beach, you could point a Gladius at someone 2 ft away and it wouldn't faze him. . .

Flashlights are normally considered most effective at night.

Seriously, I wish the Gladius was more like 150 or 200 lumens instead of an (arguable) 80 lumens. As is the light is bright, but not brighter than my G2. I don't know what that increase would do to the user's ability to move around while strobing, but it would be visually overwhelming to the subject under more lighting conditions, like ambient streetlight.

Scott

[LowBat]

Zespectre,

I like your real world test. Did you happen to compare your strobe mode with the regular high bright steady on? I'm curious how much easier, if at all, it would be to find your wife when she was just using a steady white blinding light.

[zespectre]

I did do a "steady on" test as well. In quick summary...

I could not look directly into the light and the light was blinding enough to produce the same uncertainty as to my wife's physical location in relation to the light. (in other words I could NOT see past the glare of the light).

When she moved back and forth with the light on constant I had no trouble determining that the light was moving towards or away from me. The loss/confusion of depth perception only happened in the strobe mode.

I do believe that the higher the ambient light level the less effective this would be but under the very dark conditions of the test it was extremely effective.

Just for fun I also did a similar test with a princeton tec EOS. Another light you don't want to stare straight into. When it was set to it's signal strobe mode the EOS did not produce the same depth perception confusion, it was just very unpleasant to look at.