I'm no Modder, but I can Solder. NovaTac 120 Upgrade! - Page 3

bansuri · #61 10-23-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

On another note, it doesn't appear that the reflector is a heat sink itself, but it does provide force against the emitter to press the emitter into the heat sink for thermal transfer.
The reflector can also keep the heat sink from making positive thermal contact to the head tube if it is screwed in tightly prior to inserting the heat sink, and tightening the retaining ring.
I pulled the reflector out to verify good thermal contact, and that thermal compound was squirting out where the heat sink butts against the head tube.

That's a great concept to point out. Even if it's .005" away from the flange it's not going to transfer the heat effectively.

nanotech17 · #62 10-24-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

I got the K2 emitter installed. The color rendition with this emitter is better than any other LED light that I own.
On max brightness, the light kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes. It appears that I will be using the max setting for short bursts only, as it is hammering the RCR cell pretty hard also.
I think that the K2 mod is well worth the effort. I definitely will be looking for another configuration for another build up - the search is on for a good host, and driver.

On another note, it doesn't appear that the reflector is a heat sink itself, but it does provide force against the emitter to press the emitter into the heat sink for thermal transfer.
The reflector can also keep the heat sink from making positive thermal contact to the head tube if it is screwed in tightly prior to inserting the heat sink, and tightening the retaining ring.
I pulled the reflector out to verify good thermal contact, and that thermal compound was squirting out where the heat sink butts against the head tube.

My NT120T never had a kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes, it runs well with AW IMR18650 & AW IMR16340 until the cell run out of juice at 3.0V,i only use Arctic Silver underneath the K2.

Bort · #63 10-24-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanotech17

My NT120T never had a kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes, it runs well with AW IMR18650 & AW IMR16340 until the cell run out of juice at 3.0V,i only use Arctic Silver underneath the K2.

Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.

tebore · #64 10-24-2009, 09:36 AM

The older Novatacs drove the emitters harder than the newer ones. The newer ones likely won't drop down as quickly as the older ones or at all.

Bort · #65 10-24-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebore

The older Novatacs drove the emitters harder than the newer ones. The newer ones likely won't drop down as quickly as the older ones or at all.

Thanks for the information.

tebore · #66 10-24-2009, 10:39 AM

As for the brightness on different batteries it is suggested to factory reset the light afteran LED swap so the electronics can get the proper vf for the LED when it's cool. I don't pretend to know how the light works but the regulation seems to factor vf, Vin, and temperature. At least it does in the HDS.

bansuri · #67 10-24-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebore

As for the brightness on different batteries it is suggested to factory reset the light afteran LED swap so the electronics can get the proper vf for the LED when it's cool. I don't pretend to know how the light works but the regulation seems to factor vf, Vin, and temperature. At least it does in the HDS.

That's an interesting idea, think I'll give it a try.

Of course that means I'll be doing the 250 click trick again.

Fortunately it's gotten easier after a couple times to perfect my technique.

sawlight · #68 10-24-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawlight

The K2 I got from Photon fantatic, the link is in the first post, is VERY warm. I am very suprised, and happy so far, with what I have changed. It's not a 9P with the EO9 in it, but for a compromise as most EDC's are, I really think this upgrade made a good light that much closer to being perfect.

I must recant on this statement, I am in awe even! It IS brighter than my 9P with the EO-9 in it, I even changed the batteries, but yes, it out throws it!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.

Yes, you can run it, I have run mine several min. at a time, several times, and it still runs fine!

bansuri · #69 10-24-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawlight

I must recant on this statement, I am in awe even! It IS brighter than my 9P with the EO-9 in it, I even changed the batteries, but yes, it out throws it!!

It's almost obscene how freakin bright it is. I went for a walk with the kids tonight and bumped it up to 100% but never more than a couple seconds because it just lights up everything like a police helicopter. I felt like I was doing something illegal.
Inefficient? yeah, but a ton of fun!

nanotech17 · #70 10-25-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.

Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.

Bort · #71 10-25-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawlight

Yes, you can run it, I have run mine several min. at a time, several times, and it still runs fine!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanotech17

Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.

It looks like the drop in level was due to the cell itself. I tried a couple of new cells- ( they are all AW protected RCR123) and I was able to run it several minutes at a time without any drop in levels. I still don't feel comfortable depleting the cells that quickly. I will still limit it to short bursts on Max although I'm glad to know the variable that caused the decrease in levels. This upgrade really is well worth it

Quote:

Originally Posted by bansuri

it just lights up everything like a police helicopter. I felt like I was doing something illegal.
Inefficient? yeah, but a ton of fun!

I concur!!

nanotech17 · #72 10-25-2009, 08:59 AM

i'm using AW IMR18650.

Bort · #73 10-25-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanotech17

i'm using AW IMR18650.

I think using the 18650 configuration makes alot of sense running this emitter.
Does the light get hot running it on max for more than a couple of minutes?
I would think using the longer battery tube would help dissipate some heat.

sawlight · #74 10-25-2009, 09:30 AM

A buddy came over the other night to carve a pumkin with my son, he did the spider and wanted to take some pics of his work. We set my Novatac on high and set it inside the pumkin, it was on for better than three min., no real discernable heat, it didn't even really get warm.
As for the concern with the RCR123's discharge rate, Light hound still has the 17670 tubes, would that be a better option for this?

nanotech17 · #75 10-25-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

I think using the 18650 configuration makes alot of sense running this emitter.
Does the light get hot running it on max for more than a couple of minutes?
I would think using the longer battery tube would help dissipate some heat.

yeah i prefer the longer tube and yes it gets hot after couple of minutes,but with AW IMR16340 is not bad either but runtime is shorter compare AW RCR123.

Bort · #76 10-25-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanotech17

Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.

Thanks for the input. This has definitely been an interesting mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawlight

As for the concern with the RCR123's discharge rate, Light hound still has the 17670 tubes, would that be a better option for this?

Looks like a good idea.

I am planning on a build-up using another TVOD emitter. I think that at least one or two 18650 configuration, and a larger heat sink, and reflector would be a good way to go.
Not a pocket rocket, but would be a fun project.

get-lit · #77 10-25-2009, 10:15 AM

Could a Fenix P1 or a Fenix P1D be modded with the K2?

matrixshaman · #78 10-25-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blindasabat

I've seen that several people are seeing far different results (brightness) from the K2 emitters. I suspect that the Novatac driver is Voltage regulated, not current regulated. So if you put in PhotonFanatic's TV0D K2 with a Vf of 3.03(ish) then it supplies more current due to the current-Vf curves (see the spec sheets) - which is OK since we have so many lower levels to choose from - but others with higher Vf bin K2's will see different results IF this is the case. People should list what K2 they have in this thread to help determine if this is the case.

If that is true, then the typically low Vf Rebels and XP-G emitters should work well too.

I'm just glad I got two of the TV0D emitters when I did. I have one running Direct drive (DD) off RCR's (see my Avater pic) and it pulls a lot of current when you feed it 3.7V. Over 2 Amps. If this is the case for the NT, then I would suggest nobody with the TV0D or other emitter that doubles the output via low Vf use Max for over a minute or two as it could overheat the circuitry. Even if the light is designed to run at 1 Amp for extended periods, 2+ Amps could fry it. YMMV, UAYOR - use at your own risk.

Glad someone finally brought this up as I'm fairly sure this cool mod is working to create such intense brightness for the reasons mentioned above. That is I'm fairly sure due to the nature of the Novatac circuit and the lower Vf on the K2's that you are really pulling a lot of current. It may be wise to use full blast with discretion and for short periods. I'd be the most concerned about the circuit itself overheating. But if you really want to hot rod this mod so you can put even more amps to the LED without concern about the circuit being damaged you might look at this driver here as it will safely do around 3.4 Amps to 4.5 Amps (temp dependent) and has adjustable thermal shutdown settings. I know it fits in the Novatac as darkzero put one in this type of body with a P7 that I've got and it is pulling over 3 amps with an IMR 16340.

to bansuri for trying this and all the info here. I'm sort of tempted to give it a shot myself on one of the used Novatac's I picked up for cheap on CPFM. Seems like a fairly easy way to get a big boost in light output on a great host.

Nake · #79 10-25-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by get-lit

Could a Fenix P1 or a Fenix P1D be modded with the K2?

I've got one in a P2D with a Rebel reflector, so it should work in a P1D since the reflectors are interchangable on those models. The head cap has to be backed off 1/2 a turn for focus though.

I tried with a smooth Cree reflector and it had to be backed off 2 turns for focus. The hotspot had a dark ring around it, bigger than with a Cree emitter. The spill also had artifacts in it.

With an OP Cree reflector it had to be backed off 2 turns again for focus. The beam was pretty nice with just a hint of the dark ring and the spill was artifact free.

I can't say about the P1. The reflector is smaller dia. and won't fit in the P2D head.

Edit; I was just thinking, with the P1D the pill would have to be screwed out two turns for focus. That would have the top O-ring come out of the headcap causing it to lose it's tightness, making the light unusable. Even when I screw it out 1/2 a turn it becomes loose.

get-lit · #80 10-25-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matrixshaman

Glad someone finally brought this up as I'm fairly sure this cool mod is working to create such intense brightness for the reasons mentioned above. That is I'm fairly sure due to the nature of the Novatac circuit and the lower Vf on the K2's that you are really pulling a lot of current. It may be wise to use full blast with discretion and for short periods. I'd be the most concerned about the circuit itself overheating. But if you really want to hot rod this mod so you can put even more amps to the LED without concern about the circuit being damaged you might look at this driver here as it will safely do around 3.4 Amps to 4.5 Amps (temp dependent) and has adjustable thermal shutdown settings. I know it fits in the Novatac as darkzero put one in this type of body with a P7 that I've got and it is pulling over 3 amps with an IMR 16340.

to bansuri for trying this and all the info here. I'm sort of tempted to give it a shot myself on one of the used Novatac's I picked up for cheap on CPFM. Seems like a fairly easy way to get a big boost in light output on a great host.

Thanks for the driver information, that was very helpful!

get-lit · #81 10-25-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nake

I've got one in a P2D with a Rebel reflector, so it should work in a P1D since the reflectors are interchangable on those models. The head cap has to be backed off 1/2 a turn for focus though.

I tried with a smooth Cree reflector and it had to be backed off 2 turns for focus. The hotspot had a dark ring around it, bigger than with a Cree emitter. The spill also had artifacts in it.

With an OP Cree reflector it had to be backed off 2 turns again for focus. The beam was pretty nice with just a hint of the dark ring and the spill was artifact free.

I can't say about the P1. The reflector is smaller dia. and won't fit in the P2D head.

Edit; I was just thinking, with the P1D the pill would have to be screwed out two turns for focus. That would have the top O-ring come out of the headcap causing it to lose it's tightness, making the light unusable. Even when I screw it out 1/2 a turn it becomes loose.

Thanks at lot! You saved me the $50 cost of experimentation.

Might have to look to the custom builders for a host that will work that is as small as the P1D.

Budman231 · #82 10-28-2009, 04:38 PM

This is an awesome mod. Freakin BRIGHT ! Outside it's as bright as my quark 1x123t ! Very happy with the result !

leefraczek · #83 10-29-2009, 10:45 AM

Thanks Bansuri and all contributors for all the great info and details. I've been trying to decide between a RA clicky (with it's ugly clip and seemingly not so hot QC ) or a slightly dim Novatac. You guys just answered my question! It's not that you have to use it on max often, but a blast here and there will bring a smile. And besides I like to fiddle with my battery charger once in a while too.
If any of the modified units have any problems, please keep us imformed here, since we are not really modders!

Bansuri, I hope your eye gets better.

Lee

nanotech17 · #84 10-29-2009, 04:27 PM

next up is to install the XPG-R5 on a 10MM board

bansuri · #85 10-29-2009, 04:45 PM

Me too! I just got my emitters in and saw this thread today!
Looks doable.
Must.Mod.Everything.

nanotech17 · #86 10-29-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bansuri

Me too! I just got my emitters in and saw this thread today!
Looks doable.
Must.Mod.Everything.

Lets us know the process of cutting that 10MM board to 8mm board

kz1000s1 · #87 11-03-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanotech17

Lets us know the process of cutting that 10MM board to 8mm board

I put an XPG-R5 on a 10mm board in my HDS U60GT last night.
I'll do a thread with details later. No special tools were needed. I used
side cutters and a utility knife to trim the board. The results look the same as
in the Novatac XPG link. Beam quality is good even with a smooth HDS
reflector. Output is an estimated 200-220 lumens OTF compared to a 170 lumen Quark in a ceiling bounce test.

gunga · #88 11-03-2009, 03:52 PM

Hmmm, so is this better than a K2 TVOD mod?

Sucks since I just got my K2s...

nanotech17 · #89 11-03-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kz1000s1

I put an XPG-R5 on a 10mm board in my HDS U60GT last night.
I'll do a thread with details later. No special tools were needed. I used
side cutters and a utility knife to trim the board. The results look the same as
in the Novatac XPG link. Beam quality is good even with a smooth HDS
reflector. Output is an estimated 200-220 lumens OTF compared to a 170 lumen Quark in a ceiling bounce test.

Cool,now this thing can surely throw with IMS 20mm

kz1000s1 · #90 11-03-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunga

Hmmm, so is this better than a K2 TVOD mod?

Sucks since I just got my K2s...

In a lot of ways it is, but there's nothing wrong with the K2 either.
Especially is you like a warmer tint. I had one I was going to put in this light that ended up being inop. A U-bin P4 went in instead while waiting for the XP-G. The K2 is also easier to install than the XP-G.