My house's overhead fluorescents aren't "kicking in"

TigerhawkT3 · #1 09-06-2006, 12:41 PM

My house has several fluorescent lights (the long tubes that flicker and then snap to full brightness), located in the garage, kitchen, and other places. We've been having problems with the tubes in the garage for years, and the kitchen light didn't "kick in" today. Replacing the tubes doesn't help, and the kitchen light is pretty new, too.

Does anyone know what might be going on, and how to fix it? My parents would probably love to see the fluorescents actually work.

TinderBox (UK) · #2 09-06-2006, 12:59 PM

it might need to replace the starter unit, its an small white-cream CR123 battery size module, it usualy screws in the side of the flurecent light.

at least in the UK, they do.

they are really cheap, about 50p each in the UK.

try swapping one with a light that does work.

you have to buy the right wattage starter for the tube.

regards.

James S · #3 09-06-2006, 03:34 PM

if it's not the starter (more modern ballasts dont have them anyway) then it might be a good chance to replace the ballasts alltogether.

It's not hard to do, and you can get some instant start, high output T8 tube, ones that will use less power, flicker less (or not at all) and be brighter.

Over the last year I've replaced all the old magnetic T12 ballasts around here with electronic T8 ballasts and new tubes. They work GREAT. They put out more light than the old ones, there is no perceptible flicker (they operate at a much higher frequency) and they use less electricity.

i'm not 100% sure what is available in the UK, but it's probably very similar to whats available here as far as tubes are concerned. Your fixtures probabaly take the regular t12 bulbs, but you might have seen T8 bulbs, which are about half as big around. The good part is that they have the same pins and length as the T12, so all you have to change is the ballast.

If you have not too fancy fixtures then changing the ballast is easy. Take the one you've got to the hardware store and see what replacements they have. electronic or magnetic or whatever it will have all the same wires just wire same color to same color when you put the new one in. (you'll probably have to snip the wires and use wire nuts to put in the new one, so if you dont have any experience with that you might want to call someone) The hardest part about swapping the ballast is getting the dumb fixtures open and getting the screw that holds the ballasts in out!

But honestly, I have no idea what the fixtures are that you have, they could be very different internals than ours here in the states. But I am really happy with my electronic ballasts, less power, more light, NO FLICKER or buzz or humm! Whats the downside?

Please note that this note doesn't try to cover any electrical safety issues. If you're not comfortable doing stuff like this or know how to find the right breaker to turn off, or are even thinking that you might do it live or some other stupid thing like that, then you should call a licensed guy to come and do it for you. but if you've ever changed a light switch and used a wire nut properly, you can change out your own ballast.

cobb · #4 09-07-2006, 07:59 PM

ANy updates?

I agree with James. Sounds like the ballast. You should see a square box thing in the middle of the fixture or under a center false divider. Some use wirenuts to wire them in place that has a few wires coming out of it.

My main thing against those tube lights is the fact they are not that bright in cool of cold environments.

PhotonWrangler · #5 09-07-2006, 08:06 PM

I'm a big fan of the newer electronic ballasts. As James has said, they offer no flicker/strobing and they're MUCH more efficient than the older magnetic ballasts.

Joel · #6 09-07-2006, 09:12 PM

I've replaced all my fluorescent ballasts with the newer electronic ones and T8 bulbs as mentioned above. The older ballasts are really picky about starting voltage - if the line voltage is a little low then they won't kick on. I found this out first hand when a friend of mine tried to run a fluorescent strip fixture in her older apartment building. It worked just fine at my place but wouldn't light at hers. We measured the line voltage and it was on the low side. I happened to have a voltage up converter/line conditioner and after we plugged it into that it started up just fine. Could be that the voltage is a little low in the summer as more people are running air conditioners, etc. The new ballasts don't have this problem.

snakebite · #7 09-08-2006, 01:30 AM

make sure the fixture is grounded.
clean the tubes and reflector.
if they are still not starting replace ballast.

TigerhawkT3 · #8 09-08-2006, 05:43 PM

That settles it. When my parents get back from vacation next week, I'm showing them this thread!

The electronic ballast, and perhaps T8 tubes, sound like an excellent idea. We have air conditioning, and when it starts up (there's an audible click), all the lights in the house dim momentarily.

Thank you all so much for the excellent suggestions. I can't wait to implement them! My mom will be so happy to have four times the previously available light in the garage (only one of four fixtures really works in there).

Expect updates as they happen.

jayflash · #9 09-08-2006, 06:24 PM

You may want to check the mains voltage at various times and when the air conditioning is running to be sure it's not low. Also do the simple things snakebite mentioned.

GE Ultramax ballasts, for example, run on 120 - 240 volts, provide 40kHz output, are regulated, power each lamp independently, work well in the cold, and have just one wire to each end of a T-8 lamp. You can use 28 watt T-8s for greater savings. If you use these just wire the two leads from the socket to a single ballast wire. The old ballasts have two wires to each socket.

Illum · #10 09-08-2006, 07:10 PM

if they dont kick in and these fixtures are over 5 years old, might want to kick them out.

usually its the ballast problem. in the 6 fixtures we have in the kitchen, if they dont come on right where the switch it clickeed on, either wiggle the tube a bit or give the switch a quick off and on. so far, only one case where the wires came loose [the orange cap fell off

]

the white cr123A sized ballasts have stopped in production in the US as far as i know

, nowadays ballasts are built in, and buying them separate is more expensive than replacing the fixture altogether.

PhotonWrangler · #11 09-08-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illum_the_nation

...nowadays ballasts are built in, and buying them separate is more expensive than replacing the fixture altogether.

Yes! I found a twin-tube 40w fixture w/electronic ballast at WallyWorld for around $15. For that price you still have to buy the tubes separately, but try finding an electronic ballast by itself for that price.

cobb · #12 09-09-2006, 01:05 PM

We had both the new and older lighting in rehab. I loved the newer ones as they flicked on bright a fraction of a second when you moved the switch. Its as if they came on to full brightness before the switch even made contact.

I am just using the screw in twistie bulbs. Not installing panel lighting in an apartment just yet.

eluminator · #13 09-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakebite

make sure the fixture is grounded.
.

I agree with that. It might not matter with modern lights, but the old ones wouldn't start if the metal near the tube wasn't grounded. I guess it's some high voltage electic field between the tube and the metal that is needed to ionize the gas in the tube and get the thing started.

If it's an old house with very old wiring it might not have the grounding conductor. In that case, I guess you need modern lights or modern wiring.

MoonRise · #14 09-12-2006, 10:22 AM

Fluorescent lights not working? Check the bulb, starter (if there is one), ballast, and wiring. Not necessarily in that order. It could be a bad connection somewhere in the wires into the fixture or inside the fixture itself. Been there, done that, grrrrrr. Blasted poor QC and cheap! wire nuts from the factory.

Then again it could be a bad ballast. Fix is to replace the ballast or just replace the entire fixture (with the ballast inside it). Oh, and maybe do a quick check to see if there is/was a recall from the manufacturer about bad ballasts (IIRC, Sylvania? had a bad batch in the last 5-10 years, bad as in smoke and fire).

Newer electronic ballasts are MUCH better than older magnetic ballasts. They start faster, don't flicker (that you can usually see), and use/waste less energy. If you are comfortable taking the fixture apart and installing and wiring a replacement ballast, then you can probably get the lights working again. If you are not comfortable rewiring 6-12 wires or so, then maybe you should find/hire someone who can do it for you or just replace the entire fixtures.

Oh, James, a T-8 tube is 8 eighths of an inch in diameter, or 8/8 which is one inch. A T-12 bulb is 12 eighths of an inch in diameter, or 12/8 which is 1.5 inch. Pedantic-mode off.

You are actually supposed to make sure that the ballast and bulbs are a 'match' for one another to get things to work the best. It a lot different than replacing an incandescent bulb. Need more light with an incan? Just get a bulb with more watts/lumens (as long as the fixture can handle it). Need to use less energy with an incan? Put in a bulb with less watts (and usually less lumens). Because the bulb is all there is.

With fluorescent systems though, the bulb and ballast need to work as a system. The confusing and PITA part is that there can be 'energy saving' ballasts that use 'standard' tubes. Then there can be 'energy saving' tubes that work with 'standard' ballasts. But you shouldn't use 'energy-saving' tubes with 'energy-saving' ballasts, because then the parts doesn't 'match' and you end up with a lot less lumens and actually waste more energy for the lumens produced. It will usually light up though, so often folks don't even know/realize that there was a mismatch. Then there are 'rapid-start', 'pre-heat', and other variations.

AFAIK, the T-8 'system' matches up better than the T-12 one(s), at least with bulb and ballast compatability.

And about the lights dimming when the AC turns on? Could be normal or it could be a problem. It could be low supply voltage from the pole, it could be too many circuits all on the same leg of the supply and not being balanced in the breaker/distribution panel, it could be many things.