Bulbs that burn the stock wiring in cars?

Orion · #1 11-19-2002, 08:50 AM

The headlights in my car, now, are running at 55 watts. Some specialty bulbs I have run at 80 watts. They say they won't burn stock wiring, but I was wondering if that's true or not? I guess a different way to ask is, what are/were the bulbs that DID tend to burn electrical wiring in cars?

Thanks!

InTheDark · #2 11-19-2002, 12:02 PM

Any higher wattage bulb will pull more amps and might cause fires, I don't know what the probability is. It's probably just a warning precaution, I would like to think the automobile compainies aren't that skimpy on the cost, buy you never know. But the one's that claim not to burn the stock wiring might not really be 80 watts. I've heard that some companies change the filament in the bulbs to make it focus tighter, so making the claim it has the same peak brightness as an 80 watt, but it's still really only a 55 watt bulb. Just like flashlight companies and their candlepower claims. So you're not getting more light, you're just getting more focused light.

James S · #3 11-19-2002, 12:14 PM

And if you do have an electric fire in your car, unless it's in wiring thats easy to turn off like the headlights, it wont necessarily go out, no matter how many fire extinguishers from the restaurant you're parked in front of until you manually reach under the hood and disconnect the battery!

Perhaps it sounds like I had that happen? In my case it was the age of the wiring harness and not due to modding the headlights. Although I had placed a light behind the honda "H" in in the grill so that it lit up [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] This did not contribute to the problem.

Just FYI...
James

Ted T · #4 11-19-2002, 02:52 PM

Don't do it. I've seen expensive headlight switches and connectors melt. If you must, use a relay near each bulb. Supply power to the relay through a fuse from the battery, switching the relay with the high/low beam switch.
Ted

lemlux · #5 11-19-2002, 02:55 PM

Better aftermarket running light kits and fog light kits come with extensive fused wiring harnesses to minimize voltage drop over the power path. They tend to be wired independently from the OEM lighting to avoid stressing the OEM system.

EMPOWERTORCH · #6 11-19-2002, 03:24 PM

Upgrrading to a higher wattage bulb in standard car or motorbike headlights could:
i) Be illegal in some countries
ii) cause the internal wiring loom to catch fire
iii) rapidly flatten the battery.
The best way to improve lighting is to fit commercially available spotlamps which utilise aa separate relay controlled current path straight from the battery.

lemlux · #7 11-19-2002, 03:32 PM

Empowertorch:

I'll bet you're sensitive to this question because you're old enough to remember the constant problems in all BMC motor cars due to their reliance on Lucas electrical components.

Your item #3 is a good one. Most cars seem to have alternators that are barely sufficient to power the on-board OEM equipment. I always order an upgraded capacity alternator when I can. I'm amused when horsepower freaks put on larger pulleys for their alternators and pumps. They hope to avoid 2 or 3 sacrificial horsepower at the expense of less electrical power generation and fluid circulation.

PlayboyJoeShmoe · #8 11-19-2002, 04:25 PM

Oh WOW Lemlux... y'all asked for it!

Lucas - The Prince of Darkness.

Why do brits drink warm beer? They have Lucas Refrigerators!!!

I used to have more as a buddy had a Brit car in the late 70's.

And the pully thing. Another buddy (the one who knows my digital camera much better than I do!) had two different 'Stangs (late 80's - early 90's) with pullies. He wondered why he had to buy a battery about every year, and get jump starts now and then.

One more thing about high power lights. I have two general purpose tractor lights on the back of my truck as back-up lights. Wired to the stock back-up circuit. Probably bad, but I don't ever have them on for more than seconds.

EMPOWERTORCH · #9 11-19-2002, 09:35 PM

That rminds me of the numerous Mini's you used to see with a spotlight on the bootlid wired up into the reversing light switch (rather illegal since you're only meant to have a maximum of 21W per light on the rear of your car.) The lights sometimes had a habit of flashing briefly when the driver was changing gear blinding s following driver. I'm not aware of any wiring loom fires though.
Probably more useful to modern Peugeot 206GTI drivers though... the cars have this apparent ability to reverse from 0 to 40 faster than they can do it forward!

Orion · #10 11-20-2002, 05:02 AM

*embarrassed to admit it* I was one of those who bought some of those Ebay "HID like, Xenon Plasmaglow" replacement bulbs. I had them in for a short while (like about 20 minutes), but took them out when I realized that I couldn't see as well compared to what I had in there before. Of course, the Ebay screen said that they wouldn't melt the wiring.

After reading the above posts, though, I'm glad the light output was poorer, making me put the other ones back in. I'd really hate to mess up my wiring harness with bulbs that gave me less output.

I guess I'll just have to find some GOOD driving lights to suppliment my low beams. Or, perhaps some of those replacement bulbs that a few have talked about, that are sold at Autozone? Superwhite, or something like that?

EMPOWERTORCH · #11 11-20-2002, 02:24 PM

Halford's do a good range of "Ice Blue" headlight bulbs which emit a daylight coloured light and are rated at 55/55W. They offer a superior light output for the same wattage. The same bulb is available as a 55/100W as well but bear in mind that a lot of cars wouldn't take this kind of wattage. I've thought about installing one of these in a motorbike headlight though.

LEDagent · #12 11-20-2002, 09:01 PM

I bought a set of bulbs from APC to replace the ones in my truck. They were the "blue" kind, but the box said that they were "hyper white"...which was a damn lie! Anyway, even with the MUCH higher wattage, it could not provide me with "better light"...ESPECIALLY when it was raining.

Anyway, they were rated at 80watts low beam and 110 watts high beam!! After a few months, almost a year actually, one light went out. I thought it was the bulb that burned out, but when i went to go replace the light, my fingers were burned by the HOT harness and wires. THe bulb, apparently, melted the wires! It was an expensive job to fix...so my dad says. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

My advice, and my dealers too, is to NOT exceed the current wattage that came with your car. My Volkswagen dealer won't even suggest changing my bulbs. He said that 1) they are a waste of money, becuase they basically only change the color temp. and 2) If you get a higher wattage bulb, you run the GREAT risk of frying your entire headlight system. He said it would cost me about 300-400 dollars to replace everything if even one harness went out! SHEESH!

highlandsun · #13 11-20-2002, 10:10 PM

Yep. Those blue tinted bulbs are all an accident waiting to happen. Stick with clear untinted bulbs, stock wattage.

If you're going to use higher power bulbs, you need to install heavier gauge wiring to handle the electrical load. In some cases you will also need to track down a heavier duty headlamp socket. I had one socket with decent 14 gauge wire for the pigtails, but the socket itself melted around the ground lead. Fortunately it wasn't the 12V lead that melted so no short occurred, no fuses blew.
That was when I was running 100/80 bulbs with my heavy duty wiring harness. Since I'm running HID now this should no longer be an issue.

Orion · #14 11-26-2002, 09:08 AM

Here's what is said on the plasmaglow.com webpage about heat and their products. What do you all think about this statment?

Quote:

Our bulbs are also designed to work with your stock wiring with no additional upgrades. They are designed to increase performance without an increase in power draw or heat.

highlandsun · #15 11-26-2002, 03:47 PM

You can't get something for nothing. Energy In = Energy Out. If they have truly kept the power draw the same (Energy In) and the heat produced is the same (Energy Out = Heat + Light) then the light output must also be the same as stock.

Add a blue tint to it, and the light output goes down. There is no way any incandescent bulb can have increased performance with an otherwise identical power signature.

Orion · #16 11-27-2002, 05:54 AM

So, . . . . .they are just a bunch of hucksters then.

Actually, I took the blue off the bulbs I have, but still don't have the nerve to put them in.

I guess my best and safest route is to either go with a set of 55 watt driving lights, or get a pair of Silverstars . Wal-Mart has some driving lights that are chrome colored with a blue lense. I'm not sure if they'd be a bad choice for driving lights, but they are rated at 55 watts. They'd be about the same price as some Silverstars from AutoZone.

sike · #17 11-29-2002, 02:35 PM

hey all.
I have the APC and suppose to be "DOT Legal" . one of those hyper white mentioned above. I have it for two years and replace it with a higher wattage Street Glow ones. They are rated around 100 watt or so and they did give me better visibility.

A friend of mine moved to this area where there is no light source within a couple of miles and mannnn, I was crawling with my car. The light output sucks more than I thought. And this is with a foglight kit I bought from pep boys and $56 bulb PIAA Super Plazma (waste of money).

I then replace it with those silvania OEM bulb with 20% more power and wow, much better, yellowish but better. I also bought this Hella FF series driving light to replace the cheap foglight and wow... really made a difference.

Orion, I've seen the ones in walmart... I won't buy it though... look into the Hella FF, better reflector. Not as expensive as PIAA and really good output.

Orion · #18 12-02-2002, 06:18 AM

Thanks for the advise, sike. Where would I happen to find the Hella FF?

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

sike · #19 12-02-2002, 09:13 AM

the cheapest I found is at performanceproducts.com I got the site directly from hella (hellausa.com) as their distributor. hella's website has more info and they have the "what it looks like on the road" test on all their lights, including xenon (buy it if you have the $$$, wow, it's bright)

It took long for my order though since the zip code is messed up. paid 71.10 with shipping ($9.95, yuk) and my local dealer wants $95 plus tax

take care

Bob Snow · #20 12-02-2002, 01:55 PM

HID's in reflectors designed for Incandescent bulbs have a nasty habit of blinding oncoming traffic due to the size and location difference of the filament vs the arc of the HID. Even with careful adjustments, you will most likely have to adjust your lights very low to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. US lighting patterns for standard incandescent bulbs do not have a very positive cut-off. Otherwise the HID conversion is a great idea. Lower wattage, more light. They work best on a four bulb system, otherwise you need additional reflectors for high beam.

InTheDark · #21 12-02-2002, 02:09 PM

True, some of the lights do have problems with causing an unnecessary amount of glare. But it seems like a lot of the manufacturers are realizing this and are trying to keep the arc in the same spot as the filament, so as to keep the original beam pattern. I was still concerned about that, so to prove it to myself, I installed on HID and left one headlight stock, and compared the beam patterns from the two. Aside from being different colors, and one being much brighter than the other, I think they did a pretty good job. It's a crude test, but it satisfied my curiosity. When I aimed them, I did a double check by standing in front of my car a bit to make sure they didn't blind anyone else, and i haven't gotten any high beams so far, so I think they're okay. But yeah, you have to be careful and think about the other drivers when you start adding more light. Nothing is more annoying than having a bright light in your face when you're trying to drive. I think a bigger problem than my HID's would be those giant SUV's with all those aftermarket lights on them. some of those guys should use their foglights instead of headlights since the lights always seem to end up right at my eye-level

InTheDark · #22 12-02-2002, 10:50 PM

Orion,
I just upgraded to HID's in my car after going through the same trouble that you're going through. There is absolutely no comparison between a normal bulb and HID, if you really want brighter lights, don't bother with any of those aftermarket bulbs, just save your money and do it right the first time. You already found out some of those bulbs are worse than the stock ones, and if you add up all the cost (70+ dollars for some of those ultrawhite bulbs) it's cheaper in the long run to just get HID's (I got mine for about $350). From my experience, those bulbs don't last very long anyway, so you'll be changing them out every couple of months. Also, beware of any blue tinted lights, those aren't really that good for seeing anything, they're mostly just for looks.

highlandsun · #23 12-02-2002, 11:09 PM

HID conversions can be tricky too, the initial startup draws a lot more current than an incandescent bulb. It only lasts for a few seconds, but it can still overload your stock wiring.

There are good kits out there now that mount the bulb with the arc in the proper location. My HID kit is mounted in a Euro-spec H4 lamp so it's got a decent beam pattern and sharp cutoff already. The only trick is finding a good H4 kit with both low and high beams, which my kit has. (bought from www.hidkits.com, pix @ http://home.attbi.com/~hyc_sub2/light2/ ).

InTheDark · #24 12-03-2002, 08:27 AM

highlandsun,
I was looking at that kit before I got mine, how do you like it? I just have the straight H4 kit without the highbeams because I didn't want to spend an extra couple hundred to get HID highbeams. How sturdy is the bulb, I saw the animations and thought it looked cool, but I had doubts as to the reliability of that mechanism.

Orion · #25 12-03-2002, 09:01 AM

FYI . . . my car uses 9006. The site above doesn't seem to include that one. Also, I'm pretty certain that I don't want to spend several hundred dollars for these lights. I guess I'll just have to deal with lack luster low beams. The high beams on my car are great. No problems with them. They are quite bright.

Hey, are high beams a different wattage, or just differently made, such as design of bulb/design of reflector?

highlandsun · #26 12-03-2002, 04:52 PM

The bulbs seem to be holding up alright, although there's definite scorching/discoloration of the plastic bulb base where the return wire goes. The ballasts may be another story, they don't seem to have great quality control. I'm having one replaced because it flickers...

high beams are generally higher wattage, and different filament and reflector.