Interest in Compact Fluorescent posts?

[ikendu]

I've started to replace all the lights in my house with Compact Fluorescent lights. They are 2-4 times more efficient than incandescent bulbs and last way longer. They cost more but since they last longer, the cost is about the same while at the same time saving money (and energy) from your electric bill.

However, (as with many things) I've found that not all brands or models are alike. I've got one light for my living room that is great and another set from a 4 pack that are terrific too! Some other models that I bought are dim, mis-colored and one stopped working way pre-maturely. Some start almost instantly and others take forever to come up to regular brightness. Although I bought two for my daughter and they are just about perfect! It's clear that not all Compact Fluorescent lights are created equal!

So...I haven't been able to find a good source of reviews or an active community of curious folks with which to share information on this topic. Naturally, when I thought of curious folks...I thought of this forum!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Any interest in starting up a forum just for this category of lights? Or...anyone know of such a forum ...or, a good source of reviews?.

Thanks!

[jmm]

I did the same thing about 10 years ago. I was VERY disappointed with their longevity (or lack thereof). Some of the replacements I've bought seem a little better, but I haven't found any yet that came close enough to being what I would consider "long life". I'd definitely be interested in seeing some long term life comparisons by brand, in case there was something decent out there that I havnt't run across in the local home improvement joints.

John

[Chris M.]

This house has almost all flourescent lights too, asides the living-room which has dimmer switches so I can`t put any in there, and the bathroom shaving light, which I`m working on [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] . I did change out the linear incandescent tubes in the living room display cabinets with triphosphor flourescents, though they were bigger than the bathroom one and won`t fit in there. I`ve seen some shorter ones, it`s just a case of finding a supplier!

They`re on the whole pretty good in this country, our stringent rules and regulations must weed out all the really bad ones cos I`ve not had many problems and find the colours and CRI have been OK. Surprisingly the only troubles I have had is with Philips Ambiance, "normal bulb shaped" electronic ones - I had two of those fail within 3 months, so havn`t used them again. Their SL Prismatic lights are the best - good old fashioned magnetic ballast and a high quality tube good for 12000+ hours easilly, with good efficiency. 18 watts = 120 watt incandescent. The downside - they`re huge, heavy, and some of them can be heard to buzz/chirp a bit at close quarters.

I fould some tiny 15 watt electronic-ballast spiral ones recently that are as tall as a normal bulb so will fit where no other flourescent has gone before, and give as much light as a 75 watt normal bulb. It would seem the technology is advancing, so expect to see them get ever smaller and cheaper in the near future!

Don Klipstein has a good page where he reviews some of the CFLs he`s found for sale and will be more relevent to you US folks than anything I could ever tell you. UK flourescents seem to be quite different.

Don`s page: http://misty.com/people/don/cfbest.html

And yes, I know I can`t spell it right! But it`s too late to change. My typing`s bad enough as it is....

[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[jmm]

Chris M - Like you, I've had decent luck with the "real" full sized tube/ballast based fixtures. I made a bathroom "shaving" fixture with triphosphor and cool white fluorescents in addition to incandescents so my girlfriend at the time could check out her makeup in the light of her intended destination. She liked it. She didn't like a lot of the other lights I made or bought. I started liking the lights better than her, but that's not a problem any more.

My previous negative comments were directed specifically toward "compact" fluorescents as they were the topic of this thread. I've gone through at least 20 Phillips brand compacts in the last 10 years, and there are right at the top of my "S" list.

John

[James S]

I did a rather long post at some point in the past you may be able to find by searching the board, but I'll sumarize it a bit.

Sylvania 75w equivalent spiral lamps. These are my favorite. They are inexpensive and sold at Lowes. Color temperature is a good white and they are bright. Only downside is that they take a heatbeat to light after you turn the power on.

GE 100 watt equivalent spiral lamp. I have 4 of these I bought for less than $5 a piece from Target. They are all still going good. They startup funny though, with a bright flash and then light a hearbeat later. They reach full brightness quickly, but have a very pink or even violet tinged light. This is preferrable to the green tinged light that some el-cheapo CF's have though.

Phillips marathon 3 way 75/100/120 (?) these are also very nice lights. I own 2 of them and they are both going strong. They are very bright. The color temperature is not quite as good as the sylvania bordering on green, but not objectionable after they have warmed up. These are the hottest running of any of the CF's I have, but they are also the brightest. I would buy more of these, but they are also the most expensive. These are carried at home depot.

Commercial Electric 75 watt equivalent compact spiral lamps. Home Depot sells a LOT of this brand of light. These are rated for enclosed fixtures which is why I got them. They have proven to be very reliable, I've been running them for 8 months or more now in the kitchen overhead which gets switched on and off a lot. They light instantly which is nice too. It does take them a minute or so to reach full brightness and the color is quite green when first turned on but they brighten to an acceptable color, but not as good as the sylvania which is the benchmark as far as I'm concerned. They are also inexpensive.

Commercial Electric enclosed 75 watt equivalent floodlight. These look ver much like a regular par type lamp. The color is VERY blue and they take a LONG time to warm up, but do put out a lot of light once they warm up. Personally I don't like them very much due to the color and wont be buying any more.

Commercial Electric 60 watt equivalent enclosed bulb. These look like a regular bulb. Don't bother with them. They are very dim, take forever to reach full brightness, the light is horribly green and dim.

Lights of America lights. I bought 7 or 8 of their non-spiral tubed, 75 watt equivalent lamps about 4 years ago to put in the recessed fixtures in my basement. I was very impressed with the first batch I bought, the light color was good and they were bright. So I bought a few more and a few of the brighter 100 watt ones. All the 100 watt ones ballasts literally smoked and burned out within a couple of weeks. All the newer 75 watt ones burned out in a short time too. I have continued to use the first batch of 75 watt ones and lost the first one since then 3 nights ago in a lamp that burns most of the night. So I was happy with that first batch, but have never bought any more because I suspect their QA isn't very good. Or at least it wasn't good back then.

Lights of America twist lamp. I bought one a couple of years ago. It's aweful, green green green. Can't use it except in the utility closit.

These are my personal experiences with the lights, yours may vary!

[jmm]

James - Thanks for the detailed info, maybe the things are getting better. I'm willing to put up with a few startup quirks and moderate time to full brightness, which is to be expected with any fluorescent. Even those that don't seem that obvious to the eye, show a big difference to a light meter after one minute of on time.

My experience with units from Lights of America parallels yours, generally el crapo. I may be willing to give Phillips another try with some of their newer units, since you said yours are holding up well. I really liked some of their other plus features, but the ones I had werent any better than the LOAs.

By the way, I've used some of your Mac software. You do nice work!

John

[**DONOTDELETE**]

jmm, contrary to your experience with Philips, I have had very good service from mine. I haven't bought any more compact fluorescent bulbs in years since the last crop I bought is doing so well, so I'm not up on the very latest technology in terms of personal experience..but

the burnouts stopped when I found the Philips DIMMABLE compact fluorescents. The dimmables obviously handle brownouts much better than the others, (one of which actually melted a hole in it's side during a brown out where I used to live -- I'm off grid now; never a brown-out) the other non-dimmable fluorescents have been quite happy with the quality of electricity from the sinewave inverter too; even the Philips EARTHLIGHTs, which are NOT DIMMABLE, and NOT to be used with "electronic timers, motion detectors, or photo-cell devices" and it says so on the package..but these are lights are cheap; $8.00 at the Home Depot, and I like the warmish pink-yellow fluorescents better than the bluish 'outdoor' lights..but you are probably better off finding the dimmable ones..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Lurker]

I have dabbled with these a few times over the past 10 years and between several moves I have lost whatever I had. I am just beginning to experiment with CF again. I recently bought the Sunbeam value-pack of 4 twist-style lamps, 24W = 100W, at Target recently. Very cheap, I think about $12 for the 4 bulbs. I installed 2 in my bedroom office ceiling light fixture and am very happy with them. They light almost instantly, but start out dim and a little off-color, but warm-up quickly enough and are then very bright and white.

The major drawback is that these lights are longer than incandescent bulbs and I couldn't get them into any of my enclosed ceiling fixtures in the kitchen or hallway, so 2 are still in the box.

I also put a yellow CF bug-light on my front porch. It has been cold lately and that thing starts out really dim and takes a good 5+ minutes to warm up, but is otherwise fine. It will probably be much better in warm weather.

I guess fitting CF lights takes some shopping around, and my wife always resists change of this nature, so I have not yet investigated any further. If someone could point me to good bulbs that would fit my fixtures, I might overcome my inertia on this. One hurdle is that I have numerous kinds of incandescent bulbs in my house, including 3-way reading lamps, bathroom vanity globes, chandalier bulbs with bases that are smaller than standard, spot-lights and lights on dimmers, etc. I will be doing well if I can just replace a few of the most-used lights, but wherever I can get one in, it seems like a good way to save money and help the environment.

[jmm]

Ted - Thanks for the tip. I don't think any of the Phillips units I bought between 6 and 10 years or so ago were rated as being dimmable. Although I didn't use "electronic" switching or dimming on any of the fluorescents in question, it makes sense that those that could handle it might be a bit more gutsy. I don't mind paying more for something up front if it means I don't have to mess with as much later.

Jeeze I love this place, you get exposed to so much real world practical experience based knowledge.

John

[**DONOTDELETE**]

John, my pleasure. I did a little googling and found links that suggest the designation "Earthlight" may mean dimmable, maybe not, you gotta check. They are several times more expensive;

interesting discussion of compact fluorescents, dimmable and otherwise;

http://www.cyberg.com/cflarticle.htm

pictures of dimmable and non-dimmable Philips, and some prices;

http://sierraclub.usptgear.com/energystore.htm

cheers! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[ikendu]

The good ones that I got so far are:

GE spiral 100w equivalent, light quickly, bright quickly and good color (not too blue or too warm).

Sylvania 55w equivalent (bought in a 4 pack for $9 total)...same deal, great lights! ...and, compact enough to fit anywhere (but only 55w eq.).

GE mini-spiral 40w equivalent (only draws 10w!), these are REALLY tiny, small enough to go anywhere. I've got them in an enclosed, shallow glass fixture in a hallway. There is just the slightest hesitation before they light...then great! And...the 40w is just the right amount of light for that hallway. It used to draw 120w from two 60w bulbs...now draws only 20 watts from the two spiral CF bulbs; 6 times less power!

CF desk lamp from WalMart...takes a 13w, long, double tube CF. I works great! Quick to light and really bright for 13w!

Lights-of-America 150w equivalent; lights really well, this is my work horse "read the paper" light. This light worked so well, I really got thinking that Lights-of-America made really great lights! However...

Lights that have been BAD investments:

#1...all of my other Lights-of-America lights.

I bought 5 or 6 of the reflector style lights that go in those "in-the-ceiling" light cans. They work "OK" but overall, I'm not really happy with them. They are too slow to brighten up, too dim and weird color. They are 65w equivalent. Although, I am using them...and I've not found a better substitute.

I got another Lights-of-America 60w enclosed light (looks like a bulb)...it buzzes and it's too dim. Overall, I just don't think I could recommend any lights from this manufacturer.

#2 Panasonic Light capsules. I got these for the bathroom 'cause the spiral lights just looked too weird for my wife. They start unbelievably dim, take forever to brighten up and one of the 3 I bought already died after about 2 months of use.

Bottom line...so far, only the new spiral type lights have been really good. The Sylvania were clearly the best deal and are great lights too! All of the enclosed, bulb-look lights have been not-so-good. Now when we look for lamp fixtures, we only consider ones where the longer spiral type bulbs are going to work.

[ikendu]

Any one got experience with a good outdoor CF light for a porch? It can get below zero here in the midwest but some nights we leave this light on for a long time and I sure wish it was CF!

[highlandsun]

Anyone using these candelabra base chandelier CFLs? I have a couple chandeliers that regularly go thru incandescents and I'm tired of replacing them. (Two over my stairwell, 3 bulbs each, non-dimming. The big hassle is setting up the ladder to reach the 2nd lamp from the bottom of the stairs. I also have a 5-bulb lamp in my dining room, but that's on a dimmer and I definitely haven't seen any dimmable candelabra CFL bulbs.) The going rate seems to be around $7 each regardless of brand.

[highlandsun]

Ted, thanks for the link but I've already done similar searches. Just because you find those words on the same page doesn't mean they're all in the same sentence, or talking about a single bulb. The dimmable CFLs are 18W or larger, in regular bases. If you know of a specific URL that has them, I'd love to see it, but that Google search is too general.

[T-Rex]

newsgroup:

sci:engr:lighting

Look through the google archives. Discussions ad nauseaum.

[highlandsun]

Here's a possibly better solution, a universal dimmer that drives fluorescents as well as incandescents:
http://www.maxlite.com/Pages-html/PR...mAll%20PR.html

[James S]

John, Thanks [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

And I should probably mention that I've had ALL of the above mentioned lights plugged into X10 modules at some point. Some of them even incorrectly plugged into lamp modules. I'm careful to set those to not-dimmable in my home automation software XTension (which I whole heartedly recommend as the best home automation software available anywhere for any price) so that they don't get dimmed. I know that they shouldn't be used with the lamp modules as that even all the way on the output it an altered sign wave which could cause heating or buzzing in the lamps. The only one that had any problems with this at all were the Commercial Electrib bulb shaped lamp which I already mentioned was worthless no matter how you powered it. It buzzed loudly and got quite hot, none of the other lamps have had any problems with them that way and some have been on X10 control for a year or longer.

[flashfan]

Be sure to check color temperature when buying compact fluorescent bulbs. I haven't checked recently, but most Home Depot, Target, etc. compact fluorescent bulbs emit approx. 2700k (warm white) light.

I buy my compact fluorescent bulbs from topbulb.com (they were one of the few suppliers I was able to find several years ago that carried compact fluorescent bulbs with bright, white light at a relatively decent cost). The bulbs I currrently use are at approx. 4100k (26W). There are bulbs of 5000k and higher, but some of them are quite expensive ($30+ per bulb for the Spiralux). Ott-Lite manufactures bright, white (full spectrum?) compact fluorescent bulbs and fixtures, but they are expensive, too.

I've been planning to try out a couple of the "newer" (on the topbulb site) 55W, 5000k spiral bulbs, but just haven't gotten around to ordering them. The major drawback of these bulbs is that they are so HUGE, and thus won't fit into many applications...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by highlandsun:
Ted, thanks for the link but I've already done similar searches. Just because you find those words on the same page doesn't mean they're all in the same sentence, or talking about a single bulb. The dimmable CFLs are 18W or larger, in regular bases. If you know of a specific URL that has them, I'd love to see it, but that Google search is too general.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mm. there were so many promising sites on the google search page, I thought I'd just let you look yourself. sorry. I'm still looking. so far just this 5 watt fluorescent, non-dimming; (I'll add a dimmable here if I find one later)

http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_...177&promoid=70

(added)no 5w dimmables yet, but here's a 'starting temperature' chart for many different cf's i thought might be useful to some:

http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_cont...article_id=583

[**DONOTDELETE**]

found several sources of dimmable fluorescent candelabra lamps;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...scent+dimmable

..luck.

[Lurker]

Ikendu, regarding an outdoor light, did you check out the first link in this thread ("Don's Page")? Scroll down to the text area and there is a discussion of outdoor CF bulb performance in cold temperatures. Maybe that will help you out.

[Kirk]

I bought 2 dimmable 23W Phillips Earthlights at Target last summer. They were around $15 each. They take a while to warm up, but they do dim nicely. I've been buying 13W and 20W "utility" CFs at the local 99 cent store lately. Even if they don't have great color or last "10,000 hours", I figure for a buck how can I go wrong? It's kind of a crap shoot what color you get, but for garage lights or hallway lights I can live with the industrial blue color, even though I prefer the warmer colors if I can get them. We've used some of the cheapies at work for exterior downlights that are on all night and some are going strong after 8 months or so.
Kirk

[BillPilot]

Originally posted by jmm:
I did the same thing about 10 years ago. I was VERY disappointed with their longevity (or lack thereof).
John

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. I've replaced incandescent lights with compact fluorescents where I can. But the CFs just don't last as long as the package promises. Still, they last longer than incandescent bulbs, consume less electricity and are cooler.

Compact fluorescents have a ways to go, IMHO.

--Bill

[James S]

Originally posted by BillPilot:
I agree. I've replaced incandescent lights with compact fluorescents where I can. But the CFs just don't last as long as the package promises. Still, they last longer than incandescent bulbs, consume less electricity and are cooler.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The cooler part is the main reason I got into them in this house. We moved from Wisconsin to this much more southern climate here in Virginia and I was completely unprepared for the AC Bill the first summer here. So I replaced all our every day usage lights and it really did make a difference in the AC bill. It also made a big difference in the heat in the house. The summers are much more comfortable and much less expensive with CF's everywhere!

Course, now it's winter and I'm paying through the nose to run the old heat pump to heat the place and the CF's aren't helping there at all [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Al_Havemann]

I've bought quite a few of the Commercial Electric brand spiral CF's (Home Depot - 60 watt equiv.) and all are still going strong. Their bright and I like the color temp and fast startup.

I also bought 6 of the Commercial Electric outdoor floodlight replacements from Home Depot and like James S mentioned, they take a long time to come up to full brightness, especially in the winter, but their color is quite white and brightness is very good. No real complaints, I know how CF's behave in cold weather so it was no surprise that from startup to full brightness takes about a minute in 10 degree temps.

Overall, I'm well pleased with the Commercial Electric brand. There have been no failures, their bright, white and durable.

I also like the Commercial Electric 3 watt CF's. Their in a plastic candlabra bulb configuration so if you want to use them in a regular socket you'll need an adapter.

I use the 6 of these in my walkway lights, 3 in coach lights on either side of my garage and front door and a run of 25 in my backyard for mood lighting. Together they total less than a hundred watts but their quite bright and very suitable for outside use in fixtures. None of them have failed or dimmed despite having been on continously for over a year (I don't turn them off).

The Light America brand is crap, dim and slow to come up and a bit yellow as well. Sylvania is good but I still prefer the Commercial Electric due to their much lower cost. I recently caught a sale at Home Depot with a 5 pack for $6.99 and bought 5 more packs.

Al Havemann

[lessing]

I have all cf lamps in my house and love them. I exclusivly use the 4 pack commercial electric lamps from home depot. Only my candelabra chandelier and one ceiling fan are regular lamps. I just do not like the look of the candelabra cf's. As for the fan, it is on a lightswitch with a radio remote switch;. My house is standard construction with brick filled exterrior walls. The radio remote switch was so I did not have to run wire in the brick wall. The problem is that the switch uses a solid state relay, and the leak voltage of the relay is high enough to flash the cf ballasts and over a short time burn them up. Does anyone know of someone who makes a radio remote switch that uses a standard relay?

[highlandsun]

Just add a mechanical relay to the output of the solid state relay...

[EMPOWERTORCH]

Some of My CF Bulbs are 10 years or more. I prefer daylight simulation bulbs or 4000k bulbs if I can get them, as the 3200k bulbs seem almost orange. My oldest bulb was bought in 1989 and only failed when it's tubes came unstuck from the base. The lifetime is pretty good on the Osram PL-S and PL-D bulbs that remain. I've used CF candle bulbs in lights where previously the bulb would stick out. They haven't perfected the technology yet, but it is certainly an improvement on the old Edisonian technology. Before long solid state LED bulbs such as TheLEDLight.com's Decor LED will have efficiencies approaching CF bulbs, but with 10 times the lifespan and the ability to run off non-mains supplies.
In the meantime, I'm looking to buy some 23W CF bulbs for my parents, and they would like 4000 or 6000K colour temperature. Does anyone know where I can get such bulbs? They must be 240V BC (B22) fitting.

Matt.

[BuddTX]

I have 5 of the floodlight on the outside of my house (sylvania I think).

I like getting 75 watts of power from 16 watts of energy!