Replacing incans with fluores

[RipplesOfLife]

Now, I remember reading the side of a compact fluorescent bulb. It mentions something like "Indoor only", "avoid moist areas" (bathrooms), and "non enclosed unit" (light cover).

What I understand, is that within the bulb before the tube, there is a voltage(?) amplifier which brings the household power of 120 volts to thousands of volts. So by putting a compact FL bulb the bathroom, can the moisture build up enough to produce arcing? What if the bulb was defective? Or the tube broke somehow?

The "indoor only" caution probably has to do with what I mentioned above. Weather is not always sunny and dry. Actually, CFL (at least ones I have) do not operate well when the room temperature is cold. Actually, it starts up quite dim. I guess in the winter outdoors, it may not even work if it's too cold.

As for "non enclosed unit", can't think of a reason, FLs don't seem to get that hot.

The recent news of Ontario planning to phase out incans with fluores, got me thinking about the above things. I still feel that incans are still better for some places. Like cold places, and somewhat conductive places, like a steamy bathroom during a hot shower.

(this has nothing to do with the above)

Being the thinking person that I am, I realized a few things about light. (I maybe incorrect though)

Like when a package claims that a 23 watt CFL is as bright as a 100 watt incan, it's false. Well at least the statement is false (lets be picky).

A more correct claim would be, that a 23 watt CFL will provide the same amount of light as a 100 watt incan.

Why?

Well, how big is glowing filament in an incan? Compared to the glowing tube of the CFL.

If the incan filament was the same size as the CFL tube. Then what?

So in terms of brightness, the 100 watt is brighter. But since the CFL tube is so much bigger than the incan's filament, it lights up just as much area. Even though the light is actually dimmer.

[benighted]

The CFL's that live in my bathroom seem to be OK. CFL's make more light per watt than incandescent bulbs because they are just better at making light.
What an Incandescent bulb makes most is heat and they are efficiant little heaters but they suck at making light... Theres no need to complicate things since the size of the glowing surface doesn't make a difference in a flood light

[2xTrinity]

Originally Posted by RipplesOfLife

Now, I remember reading the side of a compact fluorescent bulb. It mentions something like "Indoor only", "avoid moist areas" (bathrooms), and "non enclosed unit" (light cover).

What I understand, is that within the bulb before the tube, there is a voltage(?) amplifier which brings the household power of 120 volts to thousands of volts. So by putting a compact FL bulb the bathroom, can the moisture build up enough to produce arcing? What if the bulb was defective? Or the tube broke somehow?

Well, it's not just a straight transformer. It's actually what's called a switching power supply -- the ballast converts the incoming AC current to DC, big transistors are then used to cycle the power off and on 20,000 times a second (improves efficiency, and eliminates visible flickering), so it is electronically regulated, unlike old magnetic ballasts. I believe the problem with the moisture is due to the fact that on some of the bulbs, they are not watertight. Humidity shoudln't be a problem, buy actually liquid water (rain etc) getting bad could ruin the ballast.

There are CFLs sold explicitly for outdoor use though, usually they are completely sealed.

The "indoor only" caution probably has to do with what I mentioned above. Weather is not always sunny and dry. Actually, CFL (at least ones I have) do not operate well when the room temperature is cold. Actually, it starts up quite dim. I guess in the winter outdoors, it may not even work if it's too cold.

As for "non enclosed unit", can't think of a reason, FLs don't seem to get that hot.

Flourescents don't produce as much total heat as incandescent because they don't use up as much power. However, the built-in ballasts can be damaged by excessive heat buildup unless they are specifically designed to run at high temp. That's the reason for the labelling. Also, with an incandescent, the waste heat is all radiated as infrared light, in the fluorescent, heat builds up inside the ballast, and inside the tube, rather than radiating away from a filament.

For recessed fixtures, pin-based tubes with external ballasts perform mcuh better, but are unfortunately much more expensive.

Another issue with heat buildup is that the phosphor and fill gas mixture works best at an optimum temperature range. For CFLs designed to be used in recessed fixtures, where the temp is expected to be hotter, different fill gas components are used that cause the lights to start out dim, and get brighter as they heat up.

The recent news of Ontario planning to phase out incans with fluores, got me thinking about the above things. I still feel that incans are still better for some places. Like cold places, and somewhat conductive places, like a steamy bathroom during a hot shower.

This isn't so much a problem with fluorescent as with poor quality screw-in retrofit bulbs. A dedicated fluorescent fixture will work fine in any of those cases. For a CFL to use outdoors, or in a cold environment look for one that has a frosted globe covering -- those will be completely sealed, and the extra frosted globe acts like a layer of insulation.

Being the thinking person that I am, I realized a few things about light. (I maybe incorrect though)

Like when a package claims that a 23 watt CFL is as bright as a 100 watt incan, it's false. Well at least the statement is false (lets be picky).

A more correct claim would be, that a 23 watt CFL will provide the same amount of light as a 100 watt incan.

Why?

Well, how big is glowing filament in an incan? Compared to the glowing tube of the CFL.

If the incan filament was the same size as the CFL tube. Then what?

So in terms of brightness, the 100 watt is brighter. But since the CFL tube is so much bigger than the incan's filament, it lights up just as much area. Even though the light is actually dimmer.

You're talking about surface brightness, which is usually irrelevant for lighting up an entire room. Using your logic I could say that a 25W clear incan bulb is "brighter" than a 150W frosted incan bulb. When the package says as bright, they mean quantity of light, measured in lumens.

Where surface brightness matters is for concentrating light. Spotlights are usually measured in Candela, which is a unit measuring how concentrated the light is through a particular beam angle.

[nein166]

In my bathroom I've had 2 mini-spiral CFL screw-ins mounted sideways behind a U shaped glass diffuser open on the sides. Its a vanity light next to the shower and it gets moist in there. So much the walls drip after my G/F is done with her bath.

Having the bulbs sideways may help moisture from rolling down the spiral but since she likes atmosphere during a bath she uses candles so the bulbs are off until shes done meaning they get as moist as everything else in the room since they arent on and warm.

So far no burn outs or popping.

[Handlobraesing]

Originally Posted by RipplesOfLife

Now, I remember reading the side of a compact fluorescent bulb. It mentions something like "Indoor only", "avoid moist areas" (bathrooms), and "non enclosed unit" (light cover).

What I understand, is that within the bulb before the tube, there is a voltage(?) amplifier which brings the household power of 120 volts to thousands of volts. So by putting a compact FL bulb the bathroom, can the moisture build up enough to produce arcing? What if the bulb was defective? Or the tube broke somehow?

The "indoor only" caution probably has to do with what I mentioned above. Weather is not always sunny and dry. Actually, CFL (at least ones I have) do not operate well when the room temperature is cold. Actually, it starts up quite dim. I guess in the winter outdoors, it may not even work if it's too cold.

As for "non enclosed unit", can't think of a reason, FLs don't seem to get that hot.

Fluorescent lights are temperature sensitive. Too cold makes them under perform. Too hot makes them inefficient and reduces ballast life. Enclosed fixture would trap the heat and while the incandescent bulb doesn't mind it, it isn't good for the integrated ballast.

The recent news of Ontario planning to phase out incans with fluores, got me thinking about the above things. I still feel that incans are still better for some places. Like cold places, and somewhat conductive places, like a steamy bathroom during a hot shower.

The best answer is to use a long, tubular fluorescent system. If you get a commercial grade fixture you'll likely never replace the tubes. Cheap, Lights of America junk tend to be very hard on the tubes and kill 'em every year or two.

Like when a package claims that a 23 watt CFL is as bright as a 100 watt incan, it's false. Well at least the statement is false (lets be picky).

A more correct claim would be, that a 23 watt CFL will provide the same amount of light as a 100 watt incan.

Why?

The package is designed for general consumers.