Surefire P60L (6PL and G2L) runtimes

[chevrofreak]

I bought a real cheap used G2 (Thanks JasonC8301!) to put the P60L module from the 6PL in so all runtimes would be done with the same sample.

Thermal regulation drops the output significantly in the Nitrolon body of the G2, and when I picked the light up a few minutes after the RCR123 runtime had finished the bezel was quite hot. The module itself must have been at a very high temperature. Makes me wonder just how long the LED will survive.

[WildChild]

Originally Posted by chevrofreak

I bought a real cheap used G2 (Thanks JasonC8301!) to put the P60L module from the 6PL in so all runtimes would be done with the same sample.

Thermal regulation drops the output significantly in the Nitrolon body of the G2, and when I picked the light up a few minutes after the RCR123 runtime had finished the bezel was quite hot. The module itself must have been at a very high temperature. Makes me wonder just how long the LED will survive.

Thanks chev! The long awaited runtime graphes for the P60L! What do you mean by "quite hot" for the G2L? How can you compare it to another light (for example L2D)? For sure, over time plastic will become hot if there is a heat source inside. And this heat source probably doesn't need to be that hot to give the feeling over time. If the thermal regulation does correctly its job, the module is probably not that hot... or at an acceptable level for the LED itself. Anyway, if the LED fail, I guess SureFire will warranty it!

[chevrofreak]

I let the G2L run for about 15 minutes then took the module out and it was too hot to hold in my hand for more than a fraction of a second. My infrared thermometer showed 136F for the temperature of the aluminum reflector, but I don't know how accurate that is. Once it was exposed to air the temperature dropped very rapidly.

[lightemup]

VERY nice work

A couple of questions:


1. With your findings, do you think if I have a g2 or g2z and put a 6p or 6pd bezel on it that it would then perform like in a 6pl in your runtime test?

For example i've got my p60L in a 6pd bezel on a g2z body and tailcap


2. Do you think the 6pl etc would run on a pila 168 battery? My L4 runs like a champ on them.

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted by lightemup

VERY nice work

A couple of questions:


1. With your findings, do you think if I have a g2 or g2z and put a 6p or 6pd bezel on it that it would then perform like in a 6pl in your runtime test?

For example i've got my p60L in a 6pd bezel on a g2z body and tailcap


2. Do you think the 6pl etc would run on a pila 168 battery? My L4 runs like a champ on them.

It should help quite a bit. It'd probably fall somewhere right between the 6PL and G2L for output and runtime.

The L4 uses a boost circuit, so that allows it to run great on a 168. I tried a 168 with the P60L and the output was far far lower.

[Illum]

the EL123A graph looks very peculiar.....why the sudden drop from the beginning? temperature related?

[Schuey2002]

Woo-hoo! This is exactly what I have been waiting for...

Excellent job, chevrofreak!

[WildChild]

Originally Posted by Illum_the_nation

the EL123A graph looks very peculiar.....why the sudden drop from the beginning? temperature related?

Yes, the drop is temperature related. Member Size15 said that the module has a thermal regulation so it doesn't overheat in the plastic body of the G2L. Same thing with the Mag-LED that has a far worse thermal path for the heat to escape.

[woodrow]

Chevrofreak,
Thanks for your hard work as always. I am glad I did not buy the g2 version. I like the 6pl flatter runtime. Because of your charts, I will make the better (for me) buying decision. Aprox 80 lumans for three hours...not bad. Plus, my first cool light was a 6p back in 89. It will be nice to have another. Thanks again!

[elgarak]

Originally Posted by woodrow

Chevrofreak,
Thanks for your hard work as always. I am glad I did not buy the g2 version. I like the 6pl flatter runtime. Because of your charts, I will make the better (for me) buying decision. Aprox 80 lumans for three hours...not bad. Plus, my first cool light was a 6p back in 89. It will be nice to have another. Thanks again!

You are aware that the drop-in used in the 6PL and the G2L are exactly identical? You could just get the cheaper G2L and put the lamp module in you 6P.

[WildChild]

Originally Posted by woodrow

Chevrofreak,
Thanks for your hard work as always. I am glad I did not buy the g2 version. I like the 6pl flatter runtime. Because of your charts, I will make the better (for me) buying decision. Aprox 80 lumans for three hours...not bad. Plus, my first cool light was a 6p back in 89. It will be nice to have another. Thanks again!

The difference between 75 lumens and 60 lumens isn't great... It's hard to notice it! The G2L is a great light. The big drop is caused by thermal regulation because it has a plastic body that doesn't conduct well heat. After the thermal drop, the output is quite flat!

[woodrow]

elgarak, Wildchild... I see your point. I was not that clear in my comment. I wish my LP M1-R was a little brighter than it is with the 18650 in it, and I believe it is at least 80 lumans. Also, I no longer have my origional 6p. (have no idea what I did with it...but I b/s/t a lot of lights)

After buying a G2 (incan) today to be a baseline in review comparisons, I might just buy the drop in for that. It is a good light...almost as good as my old gpz.

[greenLED]

I see now where the "12 hour runtime" on SF's webpage is coming from...

[cave dave]

any word when surefire will make just the modules available?

[greenLED]

By mid-November is what I was told earlier today by a SF dealer.

[cave dave]

Originally Posted by greenLED

I see now where the "12 hour runtime" on SF's webpage is coming from...

Sure, if you don't mind 2 lumen output.

[Bullzeyebill]

Add another CR123 for longer regulated runtime. Here is where the 9P will come in usefull.

Bill

[nanotech17]

Hi,
i know chevro has done the test,but can this module accept 2x4.2v in other hostt which is not plastic without damaging the module?
I have got 1 in hand but kind of mix feeling to run it with 2x4.2v.
Thanks.

[Sgt. LED]

Any chance we could get a runtime test with the G2L with Al head and Lexan lens? Just wanting to see if the Al head makes up the difference or not.

[lightinsky]

When you compare the runtime of the 6PL and G2L I think the G2L is a better bet because you get approx. 90 more minutes of bright 60 Lumen light after the 6PL ran for 3 hours at 75 Lumens regulated then drops out of regulation for the next 90 minutes while the G2L is still going strong at a pretty bright 60 Lumens run til 4 hours 30 minutes which at this point the 6PL is much dimmer on the charts. Just my thought and opinion.

[geepondy]

I love the runtimes of these lights on regular CR123s as well. I'm looking at the G2L and after it drops out of regulation, you still get another three hours of more then 5 lumen light. Looks like a true moon mode. I just wish the G2L came with a clickie, it might be enough to persuade me to get one.

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted by Sgt. LED

Any chance we could get a runtime test with the G2L with Al head and Lexan lens? Just wanting to see if the Al head makes up the difference or not.

I don't have an aluminum head with a lexan window, and I don't want to switch the windows between the two lights I have since the 6PL doesn't belong to me.

[jbviau]

I would think that a runtime test with any aluminum head (regardless of whether the lens is lexan or pyrex) would be informative re: sinking heat away from the LED, no? Whichever lens SF has started to ship now with the aluminum heads on G2Ls (lost track), I can't imagine it changing the results of the runtime test. Anyway, count me in as someone else interested in seeing this test done if possible!

p.s. Thanks a bunch for what you've already posted, chevrofreak! Truly useful info.

[Bullzeyebill]

One of you guys with the new Al bezel for the G2L should let Chevrofreak borrow it for a test. Be kind and send postage for return trip. Otherwise, someone with a lightmeter could do a simple bounce off ceiling runtime. This basic procedure would be accurate enough for runtime/output and would show any large or subtle drop off in output.

Billl

[mx125]

Another question on these runtimes. Chevro's runtimes graphs did certainly clear up the issue of regulation . . as they are dead flat after the thermal correction . . .but . .

Some mentioned earlier that the initial brightness on fresh cells was never seen again regardless of heat. I would assume this is a buck circuit so above the threshhold should hold output. I wonder if Chevrofreak or others can comment on output if used intermittently? ie. Will I get a flat the 75+ lumens (100% output) for a regulated number of hours using 10 second to 1 min bursts . . or is the true regulated level closer to 60?

[soffiler]

Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill

One of you guys with the new Al bezel for the G2L should let Chevrofreak borrow it for a test. Be kind and send postage for return trip. Otherwise, someone with a lightmeter could do a simple bounce off ceiling runtime. This basic procedure would be accurate enough for runtime/output and would show any large or subtle drop off in output.

Billl

I just completed a runtime test on my G2L with aluminum bezel. I use an Extech 401036 datalogging meter in a rudimentary light box with the hotspot pointed directly at the photo sensor - this method accurately shows when output drops to 50% (or any number you choose to report) but it does not allow for an estimation of lumens. One of these days...

Anyway, I measured 4 hrs 10 min (taking data at 30-sec intervals) to reach 50% of initial stable output on Ray-O-Vac CR123A cells. These are very healthy cells - I measured three out of a batch of 20 on the West Mt. Radio CBA at 1 amp discharge rate, and got an average of 3.20 watt-hr per cell, which puts them right at the top of the heap when compared with the vast quantities of CR123A data measured by Silverfox.

I'd say this Al-bezel unit probably cools a bit better than a plastic-bezel unit, so the thermal regulation takes longer to kick in, evidenced by the shorter runtime vs. the 4:35 measured by chevrofreak. But this is not purely scientific; mine is a different unit with possible differences in the Vf of the emitter and minor efficiency variations in the driver due to component tolerances, not to mention possible minor differences in the energy capacity of the cells I used. I don't think all these differences add up to 25 minutes, however.

[Bullzeyebill]

Originally Posted by soffiler

I just completed a runtime test on my G2L with aluminum bezel. I use an Extech 401036 datalogging meter in a rudimentary light box with the hotspot pointed directly at the photo sensor - this method accurately shows when output drops to 50% (or any number you choose to report) but it does not allow for an estimation of lumens. One of these days...

Anyway, I measured 4 hrs 10 min (taking data at 30-sec intervals) to reach 50% of initial stable output on Ray-O-Vac CR123A cells. These are very healthy cells - I measured three out of a batch of 20 on the West Mt. Radio CBA at 1 amp discharge rate, and got an average of 3.20 watt-hr per cell, which puts them right at the top of the heap when compared with the vast quantities of CR123A data measured by Silverfox.

I'd say this Al-bezel unit probably cools a bit better than a plastic-bezel unit, so the thermal regulation takes longer to kick in, evidenced ey the shorter runtime vs. the 4:35 measured by chevrofreak. But this is not purely scientific; mine is a different unit with possible differences in the Vf of the emitter and minor efficiency variations in the driver due to component tolerances, not to mention possible minor differences in the energy capacity of the cells I used. I don't think all these differences add up to 25 minutes, however.

You can do the bounce I mentioned and get some good data on the overall output drop off. You can also test some of your other lights in the same enviornment, same positions for lightmeter and flashlights, and get comparisions of output of different lights which will sort of give you estimates of lumen output for your various lights.

Bill

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Nice to know this stuff!

The P60L out of my 6PL is in a Brinkmann rechargeable Maxfire with two 17500. In that light it would probably get very hot. But that's okay because I usually only play with rather than use most of my lights.

[soffiler]

Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill

You can do the bounce I mentioned and get some good data on the overall output drop off. You can also test some of your other lights in the same enviornment, same positions for lightmeter and flashlights, and get comparisions of output of different lights which will sort of give you estimates of lumen output for your various lights.

Bill

Not sure what you're getting at. Whether measuring bounce off a ceiling, or the intensity of the hotspot (what I did) you can watch the overall output drop off either way. That's how I am able to report 4:10 to 50% of initial stable output. When the hotspot drops to 50% of its intial value, overall lumens have dropped to 50% also.

[Bullzeyebill]

What I suggested would give you an estimation of lumens when compared to your other lights. That is the one thing that you said that your lux reading runtime could not do, give you an estimation of lumens.

Bill