Are there any NIMH low discharge 9 volt batteries?

[Beacon of Light]

I have the regular NIMH Ray-O-Vac and Energizer 9 volts, but I would prefer the low discharge variety since they would be used in my guitars that run active pickups. Does anyone make these and are they planning on them? It would be great to see a 9v Eneloop or 9v Ray-O-Vac hybrid someday.

[Marduke]

You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.

[Fallingwater]

I remember seeing a LiPo "9 volt" cell made with two 3.7/4.2 packs in a 9v casing. If you your gadgets can work with a bit less than 9 volts it could be a good idea.

[TorchBoy]

Originally Posted by Fallingwater

If you your gadgets can work with a bit less than 9 volts it could be a good idea.

9 volt batteries are less than 9 volt anyway under load, and especially so after they've done a bit of work.

[Sub_Umbra]

Originally Posted by Marduke

You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.

That would pretty much seem to cover it.

I would look for NiCD 9v batteries. For most uses they will probably have a low enough self discharge to work in your application. Whatever you buy, read the specs carefully. Some rechargeable 9v batteries have more cells than others -- and therefore a corespondingly higher output voltage. This factor alone can make or break many potential uses for 9v rechargable batteries.

[Marduke]

Originally Posted by Sub_Umbra

That would pretty much seem to cover it.

I would look for NiCD 9v batteries. For most uses they will probably have a low enough self discharge to work in your application. Whatever you buy, read the specs carefully. Some rechargeable 9v batteries have more cells than others -- and therefore a corespondingly higher output voltage. This factor alone can make or break many potential uses for 9v rechargable batteries.

Yep. In the NiMH flavor alone, they have 6xAAAA versions that pump out 7.2v nominal, and 7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal

[Power Me Up]

Originally Posted by Marduke

You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.

LSD Cs and Ds are already available:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/a...-pk-p-998.html
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/a...-pk-p-997.html

I have found one site saying that LSD 9V batteries are on the way:
http://www.enekeep.com/index7.html

[TorchBoy]

Originally Posted by Marduke

7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal

Seven AAAA cells won't fit in a 9 volt battery. Perhaps they use seven prismatic cells for those batteries.

[Marduke]

Originally Posted by Power Me Up

LSD Cs and Ds are already available:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/a...-pk-p-998.html
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/a...-pk-p-997.html

I have found one site saying that LSD 9V batteries are on the way:
http://www.enekeep.com/index7.html

But none in name brand, particularly the ROV or Eneloops requested by OP.

[bcwang]

Originally Posted by Marduke

Yep. In the NiMH flavor alone, they have 6xAAAA versions that pump out 7.2v nominal, and 7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal

Maha has one that uses 8 cells and puts out 9.6v as well.

[Beacon of Light]

Thanks for the responses. I was hoping for something more promising than an unknown like Enekeep and who knows where one would even be able to buy them and for what price...

So there's no one in the know that has heard of Sanyo/Eneloop offering a low discharge 9v? Ray-O-Vac, heck I'd even settle for the Kodak low discharge if they made a 9v.

[2xTrinity]

Of products on the market, I'd suggest one of the LiIon 9V cells is your best bet -- LiIon chemistry tends to have low self-discharge compared to NiMH, and it will have almost double the capacity of a NiMH 9V cell to begin with, as well.


here
is one set I found after a quick google search.

[Fallingwater]

I wish batteryspace had good prices for overseas shipping. I'd buy a crapload of stuff from them.
I don't get it why it costs pennies to ship stuff from Hong Kong, but shipping from the US has to be at least 35 dollars.

[servaas]

Originally Posted by Beacon of Light

So there's no one in the know that has heard of Sanyo/Eneloop offering a low discharge 9v? Ray-O-Vac, heck I'd even settle for the Kodak low discharge if they made a 9v.

I have asked this question of Sanyo here in Australia.They said it would not happen because of the internal structure of 9V batteries was not compatible with the LSD structure.

[Beacon of Light]

Thanks 2xTrinity. Was wondering if the Li-Ion 9v batteries have a similar 500-1000 charge cycle lifespan or longer?

I see a neat looking 4 bay 9v charger that is new from iPower and it is switchable from Li-Ion or NICD/NIHM. No price listed yet at Thomas Distributing (must be that new???), but other places have it with a combo (2 batteries and a car charger adapter) but also no prices.

Anyone know the difference in size too? Some of my guitars have small cavities and a marginally bigger battery would be tight.

[moldyoldy]

Originally Posted by bcwang

Maha has one that uses 8 cells and puts out 9.6v as well.

As bcwang cited, there are Maha 9.6v 230mah NiMH batteries as available from T-D that serve my fire and smoke and CO2 detectors quite nicely. Are these batteries identified as "low self-discharge"? no, but the quality of this specific battery is high enough that I don't really care about the difference. I have almost a dozen in use in various smoke/ionization/CO2 detectors or several wireless mikes at church. no problems except that these 9.6v batteries are a shade larger than normal 9V batteries. The pastors have to pay attention to how the batteries are inserted into the wireless mikes. I lost 3 of the batteries to bent and finally broken-off terminals before the pastors understood what to do. On the other hand, the services are not bothered any more by the nearby state police tower breaking up the wireless mike transmission during a sermon ....! the advantage is due to the higher output voltage of the 9.6 battery and therefore higher transmission power from the wireless mike.

FWIW, I consider a smoke detector application to be low power such that the self discharge characteristic of the battery will be the primary driver as to length of use before recharging/replacement. With the maha 9.6v batteries in a various detectors, the run time is somewhere between 6 and 12 months before the "replace battery" beeper kicks in - all depending on the specific detector. The combo ionization/smoke detectors or CO2 detectors draw more current than just ionization detectors. Will those 9.6v batteries still supply sufficient current to signal a _loud_ warning buzzer or beeping close to the end of their useful charge? There was a CPF thread a while back that discussed that aspect at some length. I tested a few of these specific Maha 9.6v batteries under something I thought was close to end of charge - I had to plug my ears to let the detectors sound off long enough to be believable. no problem.

An example of an actual usage mistake is related to one of my 3 CO2 detectors which normally run on AC power and use the 9.6V battery as a backup. I charged the Maha 9.6v battery in the summer, put it back into service and forgot about it. A handyman was working at our house during the day a couple days ago and pulled the wall-wart from the mains outlet - and left it that way. Somewhere about "oh-dark-thirty" (middle of the night for the non-military-ops people) the low voltage signal woke us up. Battery mission accomplished!

Ergo, While a 9V battery with the label of "low discharge" does not appear to be available, in my experience the Maha 9.6v battery possesses sufficiently adequate electrical/chemical characteristics to come close enough to a "low self-discharge" battery for my usage.

BTW, you really need to purchase the Maha MH-C490F charger that charges four 9.6v or 9V cells intelligently in a few hours, not all night as is usual with 9V charging stations. and then leave the cells on trickle charge after charge termination for longer than an hour. I credit that charger for saving 4 existing older 9v batteries from the recycling bin. It took a few charging cycles but the old 9V batteries were sufficiently rejuvenated to become useful again.

[Sub_Umbra]

Moldy-

Thanks for the real-world experience.

[Rzr800]

Hope this is relevant...but would these Li-Pos be a candidate and what is anybody's opinion as to their use in small wireless cameras at sub-freezing temps? (this is the lonly 9V lithium rechargeable that Thomas Distributing lists).
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/i...s9o91q3jr8eh86

Thanks.

[Sub_Umbra]

Rzr800,

That's really interesting. I wish Thomas weren't so thin on specs on that one. I'd love to here from someone who's been using them for a while.


Later:

I did a search and have been reading a bit about them. They have a nominal 8.4v with a discharge cut-off of 6.4v (see spec link below). Greater runtime than alkalines.

As usual with 9v rechargeables I'm seeing some size complaints. It would seem fundamental to me that any rechargeable cell/battery should conform to it's stated form factor. Go figure.

iPowerUS Li-Polymer 9V 500mAh Specification

Later still:

This thread about iPowerUS Li-Polymer 9V 500mAh batteries is a pretty good read from a sound man's perspective. One of the posts in it states that the newer batteries are smaller than the originals were.

[Fallingwater]

"Please Note: The nominal voltage of this battery is 8.4V."

No, it isn't. It's 7.4V. 8.4V is the fully charged voltage, which won't last long under load.

[santza]

I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.

I will do some tests but I dont have enough time right now. I have a hobby charger so I can measure capacity and make a 30 day self DSC test. But I will post results on this thread! Nice to see a LSD 9V finally.

[Beacon of Light]

Originally Posted by santza

I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.

I will do some tests but I dont have enough time right now. I have a hobby charger so I can measure capacity and make a 30 day self DSC test. But I will post results on this thread! Nice to see a LSD 9V finally.

Looks like I wasn't crazy for requesting this way back when. Good job and keep us posted once you finish testing. Also where to buy this and what charger are you using?

[Beacon of Light]

Any update from your test?

I also noticed Thomas Distributing carries the AA/AAA LSD Uniross batteries in the same packaging as the 9V but no 9V Unirosses.... I will give a call there and post back here with my findings if they plan to carry the 9V Uniross.

[Beacon of Light]

Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?

[Power Me Up]

For those CPF members in Australia looking for 9V LSD batteries, I spotted the Hybrio 9V LSD battery for sale at Harvey Norman for $15.95 a couple of days ago...

[Closet_Flashaholic]

Originally Posted by Beacon of Light

Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?

I have some on order. I will post when I get them. Although I have limited test equipment for 9v. I will have to come up with something I guess.

[Closet_Flashaholic]

Initial report:

I don't have anyway of determining remaining charge for a 9v battery. In theory, if they are truly LSD, then one would think that they should have a lot of capacity left in them (that's if you think 200 mAH is a "lot" of capacity)..

Battery 1 - 8.92 volts (no load)
Battery 2 - 8.99 volts (no load).

Charging now.

The plan is to put 1 of them into immediate service and let the other sit on a shelf for a couple of months and see how it fares.. I will probably just check the voltage (under a .1C load) every couple of weeks and report in this thread, if anyone is interested, besides me.

[Nubo]

Originally Posted by Beacon of Light

Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?

How much room do you have, or how ugly of a solution can you tolerate? How about a 7 or 8 AAA holder (or pack), wired to a 9V connector? Way more capacity.

[frosty]

Originally Posted by santza

I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.

I will do some tests but I dont have enough time right now. I have a hobby charger so I can measure capacity and make a 30 day self DSC test. But I will post results on this thread! Nice to see a LSD 9V finally.

I've just picked up some of these to replace my older uniross 9v batteries.

The description on the packet states that they are LSD. I think that the general consensus was that Uniross LSD are rebadged Eneloops, so I am hoping for similar performance. It's a shame that Sanyo don't make their own version.

[MattK]

I am 99% sure that Uniross LSD are NOT rebadged Eneloops.