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  #1  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:45 AM
mgc8 mgc8 is offline
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Arrow Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Back in April when I ordered this light it was certainly the most impressive of the ones talked about around the forum. As time passed, the excitement diminished, yet I must say it all came back last week when, after what seemed like an obstacle course, it finally arrived in my possession.

Initial impressions I must say were somewhat disappointing. First of all, the packaging was a mere bubble-wrap, with no additional protection whatsoever, although luckily the light arrived undamaged. Furthermore, what seemed more puzzling for such a high-end piece of equipment, there were no extra parts and no instructions, not even a hand-written piece of paper about how to load and operate the light. Of course, I had read about it on the forum so I already knew the details, but I think at least a diagram for the batteries should have been supplied, as the ++- placement is not intuitive at all, and also some explanation of the UI (for example, without searching the forum, who would think about unscrewing the tailcap in order to "save" a mode?!).

That being said, as soon as I arrived home, I loaded it with three brand-new AW 2600's and it more than made up for everything with it's beautiful output! Here are my overall thoughts after playing with it for a while:

I was relieved to see the initial battery-length problems have been fixed. However, the tailcap needs more work in my opinion -- the threads were the most non-lubricated ones in all my lights so far (which are not many, but still quite a few). Sure, it's easy to fix, yet it certainly made screwing in the tailcap more difficult than it should've been, as it has a moving part inside that keeps wobbling, making the loading of batteries an unwelcome annoyance. Then, the little pads need to align correctly, otherwise it won't fit; all-in-all, annoying for someone eager to test the light (or when changing batteries in a hurry).

Regarding build-quality, the rest of the light it top-notch, with one exception I'll mention in a moment -- the anodizing is excellent, none of the "premium" issues cropped up, and the colour is uniform save for a little difference in nuance for the bezel and tailcap (they seem lighter), but nothing noticeable except to an obsessed observer Visually, the black contrasts nicely with the golden rings on both sides of the switch, making for a high-quality light that is sure to impress.

As we arrive to the switch, all's not perfect unfortunately. The ring-selector, complete with teflon bearings, that was touted as one of the revolutionary aspects of the light, was to me disappointing. Part of that was my own expectation after reading reviews, which turned out to be false -- I was under the impression that the ring could "turn" all the way around in an infinite left-right motion, like the volume knobs on hifi equipment, yet it only goes a little in each direction, held by a spring; but even if one were to ignore that, the switch is of very poor quality... First of all, it does not fit perfectly, so it rattles up and down whenever the light is moved, which contrasts unfavourably with the solid impression of the rest of it. Second, the spring is either too soft or too strong depending on what finger you use to turn it -- for me, turning it with the thumb is too easy while the index finger finds it somewhat harder. Third, and this is the most annoying, it makes a cheap screeching noise whenever you turn it or let go... Initially I thought there was something wrong with my light, so I opened it up at the middle, only to find out it's by design. Again, disappointing.

And since we're here, the middle threads are also not lubricated, and there is no O-ring there, so I'd guess this makes the light not waterproof. The issue was brought up regarding the premium version, but apparently it wasn't fixed yet.
UPDATE: The groove for the O-ring is there, and it appears it was just an oversight on this particular light, Neoseikan has been very prompt in aswering and offering a spare O-ring and he stated that the rest of the lights will not have this problem.

That would about sum up my main criticism of this light: poor packaging, annoying tailcap, squeaky and cheap quality "ring". Now we can move onto the positive aspects

But let me show the light first, as you probably long for pics by now:



Also from other angles:





This is a closeup of the middle section, in this picture the shape of the reflector can be discerned through the cooling fins:



Detail of the ring and soft knurling:



The tailcap:



And a few more details of the head:






Looking inside the business end, one can see the deep, OP reflector and the MC-E LED, perfectly centered:




Here is the light in my hand in the ergonomic grip permitted by the UI:



Ok, so I have been using the Legion II for about a week, mostly playing with it indoors but also took it out on a couple of occasions. The feel in the hand is excellent, well balanced, and this is actually one aspect of the light that was spot-on! As I have rather large hands, the grip over the 3x18650 body is ideal, and I find it more comfortable to hold than thinner 1x lights. Also, the short-and-stumpy body is great for tucking it in a bag without worrying if it is going to fit or not.

Although I complained about the ring, I must say that I like the UI very much. Sure, it could be improved, but it is a refreshing change from the common "tactical" clicky-lights.
I'll recap here the mode of operation, just in case there are others who may not have read about it already:
- turning the ring either left or right is momentary on, at two preset levels that can be changed; initially they are right-LOW and left-MIDDLE (level 3 out of 5).
- keeping the ring in the selected direction will "lock" the light on, which is confirmed by a short flash
- as the light is on, a short turn of the ring left will drop a level and right will climb a level (may be different for left-handed operation, I have the right-hand one); there are 5 levels in total
- holding the ring maximum left will prompt the "battery level indicator", a very useful and innovative feature that flashes the led up to 6 times depending on the charge level (with 3 meaning "low")
- holding the ring maximum right will turn the light off -- here I might say that the interval could be tweaked, right now it is much too easy to turn the light off instead of climbing a level
- all of the above is quite intuitive and not very difficult to learn, but here comes the weird part -- in order to program the default left-right levels, one needs to:
a) turn on the light in the respective direction
b) set the desired light-level
c) unscrew the tailcap, then screw it back in

All-in-all, a nice UI that should be a source of inspiration for more lights to come!

I should point out here that due to the lack of a tail-switch, this is one of the best tail-standing lights one can get! Having the three batteries and a rather small head also means that you won't have it fall over by accident, this is one solid room-lighter in it's own right, and it's going to be a wonderful "emergency" light for when the electric company plays tricks on us.

I didn't measure running time, but there are enough reviews on the forum that place it around 2h30min on maximum with 2600mAh batteries. At minimum level, it exceeds 22h, which in my book is outstanding!

To quote a member of the forum, I used the highly "scientific" method of shining the light through several fans in order to observe any PWM, and I must say there isn't any (or at least none that I can observe). Also, (apart from the ring issue) there are no high-pitched sounds in operation, when changing modes or when the light heats up.

Talking about heat, I measured the temperature using an IR tool after leaving the light "on" at maximum for around 10 minutes in a room with no direct cooling, and the results were mild -- 45degC at the bottom, 48C in the middle and around 50-54C at the head, depending on area. After 10 minutes the light was hot but not uncomfortable, it would probably take double that to reach an unsafe limit.

Time permitting, I would've liked to make a few detailed comparisons with other lights I own, however time didn't cooperate so here is just a condensed comparison with one of it's direct competitors, the SolarForce L950M:




Next to each other, it is apparent the Legion II is more compact, housing three batteries to the L950M's two, yet the most notable difference is the reflector -- while the L950M has a very wide, somewhat shallow reflector, the LegionII's is tight and deep. This is also seen in the beams of the two, with the moderate throw and wide flood of the L950M contrasting the throwy Legion beam. Unfortunately, I didn't have the means of taking night-time beamshots in the woods, since I live in the middle of a big city, so here are just a few shots comparing them on a white wall:

Top is LegionII, bottom is L950M, shot at 1/30, F5, ISO200 and daylight WB:




Then the same but at 1/1000 speed:




In these shots, both lights are at maximum level, and one can readily notice the floodier beam on the L950M and the very intense hotspot of the LegionII. I would wager the output is not very different between the two (respected measurements on the forum place the LegionII at 600-610lm and the L950M at 560-600lm), so the main difference remains reflector design.

The (in)famous cross or doughnut is indeed visible on both lights at short range, it disappears quickly with the L950M and not-so-quickly with the LegionII -- a darker center is still visible at around 10m on a white wall -- but not enough to be a discernable impediment on the use of the light outside.

To wrap this up, here is a GIF animation of the Legion II going through it's five levels (1/60, F5, ISO200, grayscale due to GIF limitations):



Well, that about covers it! My overall conclusion would be that this is a beautiful, powerful and well-engineered flashlight that could proudly stand with the best of the bunch. The high price however would demand better quality control and more attention to detail, things I'm sure will be corrected with time.

I hope you will find this review informative and useful, and I look forward to answering questions if you want to know more.

Best regards,
Mihnea

Last edited by mgc8; 08-14-2009 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Updated information regarding waterproofness, corrected small mistakes
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Yay!

Thank you so much mgc8 for this excellent and insightful review!

I too have been waiting for this light for a long time--it has been through a lot of ups and downs!

I think I am ready to pull the trigger!

Yay Neo! Way to save the Legion II! What a proud day!!
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:33 AM
sjalbrec sjalbrec is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

hi,

thanks so much for putting together this comprehensive review. great pics and beam shots!!

as i recieved a standard version last week too, i have a few comments.

neoseikan mass emailed a pdf guide back in late july that included clear instructions on the UI and included pics to demonstrate proper battery placement. neoseikan will gladly send you a copy or you can pm me with your email and i'd be happy to pass it on.

i agree with your assessment of the tailcap, however, i'm quite surprised by the issues you have with the control ring. the control ring on mine is very solid and makes no rattles/sounds at all. i'm making a quick assumption here and i'll apologize in advance if i'm incorrect, but i'm wondering if maybe the spring on yours isn't seated correctly in the control ring?

as you can see from these pics of the premium version (i stole these from Cheesy from his thread here = http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=232252), the spring has a prong that must seat inside a special slot in the ring itself. if the spring isn't placed correctly when it is re-assembled, i could imagine the spring could rattle or make a sound while rubbing against the inside of the ring. just an idea












i like everything about my legion II from the look & feel, to the UI, to the very impressive run time, to the even more impressive brightness.

thanks again
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Last edited by sjalbrec; 08-11-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-11-2009, 01:49 PM
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AbleArcher AbleArcher is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Finally ! I've been waiting for a review of the standard version for ages so thanks for putting me out of my misery mgc8.

I really like the black / gold look of this version, much more so than the premium, and it looks like Neo has got the anodizing right now. I think the whole look combines to make the light look much more professional than it did before.

The Legion II is now looking like a much better proposition than it did a few months ago and a real alternative to some of the recently released mass-manufactured throwers.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2009, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

This is my first look at the standard version. After looking at it for a while I think I like it better than the other one. The finish on the expensive version was always lacking but this one looks great. Of course, the light is a pleasure to use and a notch above the the quad die lights imo.


Thanks for posting this.
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:59 PM
mgc8 mgc8 is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Thanks for the nice words everyone, much appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjalbrec View Post
neoseikan mass emailed a pdf guide back in late july that included clear instructions on the UI and included pics to demonstrate proper battery placement. neoseikan will gladly send you a copy or you can pm me with your email and i'd be happy to pass it on.
Unfortunately I never received that pdf with the light, nor did neo send it in any of our e-mail interactions... I believe the best place for it would be online, preferably on his site, so that everyone can benefit? Otherwise, posting it here as an attachment might also work (I guess it is quite small).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjalbrec View Post
i agree with your assessment of the tailcap, however, i'm quite surprised by the issues you have with the control ring. the control ring on mine is very solid and makes no rattles/sounds at all. i'm making a quick assumption here and i'll apologize in advance if i'm incorrect, but i'm wondering if maybe the spring on yours isn't seated correctly in the control ring?
Well, that was exactly what I thought at first, and that's why I opened the light to check it. Unfortunately, it was well seated, so that leaves the fact that the spring is quite soft and loose; not much to do about it. And talking about Cheesy's review, he noted some of the same problems as well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy
User interface — (...) I would like to see some cushioning added to the end-stops as there is an annoying 'clack' when the ring hits them.
Return spring — The spring tension on the control ring is not too high, I could stand having to use more force to operate the ring.
Bearings — At the front and rear of the control ring are two PTFE bearings. On my example, these could be marginally thicker, the ring rattles when shaken due to perhaps 0.5mm of play fore and aft that remains when the body is fully tightened.
I must say that as a sign that Neo does listen to his customers, this version does have cushioning added to the end-stops compared to the original, however it doesn't help much (maybe if it was softer?). As it stands, all of this is definitely not a big issue, just a detail that detracts from an otherwise excellent product -- and the fact you use the ring all the time doesn't help either

Last edited by mgc8; 08-11-2009 at 05:03 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:54 PM
sjalbrec sjalbrec is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review



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  #8  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:27 AM
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PhantomPhoton PhantomPhoton is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Great review of this rollercoaster ride of a light.
Very clearly stated precise wording & easy to read. Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:37 AM
romteb romteb is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Thanks for the review, a pleasure to read.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Excellent review there. I guess maybe it is better to think of the versions as "Limited" and "Unlimited" rather than premium and standard...
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2009, 04:21 PM
RocketTomato RocketTomato is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Thanks for the great review! (Your English is excellent by the way.)

As far as the water-proofness of the light, can an o-ring be added to the middle thread section or is the light physically missing the o-ring groove?
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:04 PM
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neoseikan neoseikan is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTomato View Post
Thanks for the great review! (Your English is excellent by the way.)

As far as the water-proofness of the light, can an o-ring be added to the middle thread section or is the light physically missing the o-ring groove?
Quite sorry for the O-ring. It's a mistake caused by careless checking. I will send another O-ring to mgc8.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoseikan View Post
Quite sorry for the O-ring. It's a mistake caused by careless checking. I will send another O-ring to mgc8.
Neo,

Where would you put the o-ring? Can you post a photo? I had previously asked this question in another post and didn't see a response so my solution was to use teflon tape on the threads. My light is now waterproof at this junction but the tradeoff is that it would likely reduce the ability to transmit heat to the battery tube. Can you let us know what size o-ring and where to install it? I could just go to the store and buy one for my light.

Thanks,

9x23
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9x23 View Post
Neo,

Where would you put the o-ring? Can you post a photo? I had previously asked this question in another post and didn't see a response so my solution was to use teflon tape on the threads. My light is now waterproof at this junction but the tradeoff is that it would likely reduce the ability to transmit heat to the battery tube. Can you let us know what size o-ring and where to install it? I could just go to the store and buy one for my light.

Thanks,

9x23
Hi, The O-ring is added in the standard version, quite sorry for the buged design in earlier version. I will do better.
Yours, Neoseikan
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  #15  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:40 PM
GarageBoy GarageBoy is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Has NeoFab stepped up on the Customer Service yet?
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageBoy View Post
Has NeoFab stepped up on the Customer Service yet?
I am learning and trying. The first step is to get enough parts for replacement of "wrongly marked tailcap", and then the Spartanian II.
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2009, 04:17 AM
mgc8 mgc8 is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoseikan View Post
Quite sorry for the O-ring. It's a mistake caused by careless checking. I will send another O-ring to mgc8.
Hi, thanks for the fast response, that's very generous of you! Indeed, the groove is there, at the bottom of the threads on the head of the light, below the spring, just there was no O-ring on mine. However, please do not go through the trouble of mailing me one, as 9x23 said I think just posting the correct size would be enough, I have hardware stores nearby (and even spare parts from other lights) so I am sure it can be fixed easily.

I have edited the OP to reflect this. Thanks again and best regards, I appreciate this light more and more each day
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:26 AM
GarageBoy GarageBoy is offline
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Thanks for chiming in neoseikan, hopefully it'll only be a bumpy start and not more.Good luck on the light, I love the concept
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageBoy View Post
Thanks for chiming in neoseikan, hopefully it'll only be a bumpy start and not more.Good luck on the light, I love the concept
Thank you!

Some improvements of the new batch Legion II:

1- Better package.
2- SS bezel and SS tailcap will be OK quite soon.
3- Lubricant, finally, added.
4- More tests before shipping.
5- Tested with CR123A/RCR123A batteries.
6- Easier to clean the control ring.

And the O-ring Size is:

26~28mm(Inner diameter)*1.6mm

Thank you!
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Last edited by neoseikan; 08-14-2009 at 07:46 AM.
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