Very bright light for bedroom?

[paulr]

I'm interested in getting a very bright lamp for my bedroom, something that lights the room to near-daylight levels, hopefully full spectrum without making a lot of UV. It needs to be a lamp and not a fixture (i.e. I'm renting so I can't put bolts into the wall or ceiling). I'm using some full spectrum incan bulbs but they're unimpressive. I want something like a 1000 watt fluorescent or HID. Does anything like that even exist, in manageable size without costing kilobucks? It would only be run for short periods, mainly in the morning (I have a hard time waking up and bright light seems to help). Thanks.

[NightShift]

Get a halogen torchiere lamp that uses a 300w bulb (like i have). I usually keep it dimmed a bit cuz of the heat and light intensity. I also have white walls so it reflects off them well - something else u can consider. After using one of these, regular lamps that use screw in bulbs will seem so dim.

[paulr]

Thanks, I've had those torchiere lights but have been thinking that fluorescents are much more efficient, and 300 watts of lighting isn't really all that much (sunlight is around 150 watts per square foot). I found a place selling a 65 watt compact fluorescent bulb (equivalent to 300 watts incandescent) except they want 45 bucks for it. I was thinking that a dozen or so of them in ceramic bulb bases screwed to a piece of plywood with a plexiglass cover would make a fairly portable light box as bright as 3000 watts of incandescent lighting. (Might need some computer fans to keep it cool). However, that's more cash than I want to spend ($500+ for the bulbs alone). I see some 25 watt CF bulbs in the $7 range which is more like it. I'm wondering what other alternatives there are.

[jtr1962]

You'll get the most bang for the buck lumen-wise by going with standard 4 foot fluorescent tubes(either T-8 or T-12). If you really need full-spectrum light similar to daylight then you need fluorescent. Halogen doesn't have the same color temperature as sunlight so your body won't react to it the same. Besides, you need a ridiculous amount of power to brightly light a room with incandescents.

I've purchased 4 foot T-8 tubes from here. Very reasonable prices($7 per tube in quantities >6), and very long life(34,000 hours). Four of these light up my kitchen fairly brightly. Also, the light looks exactly like sunlight. I would imagine your best bet might be buying a bunch of 4 foot fluorescent strip lights, mounting them to a board, and purchasing full-spectrum tubes for them separately(Home Depot or most other retail stores don't carry full-spectrum tubes, and those that do charge a ridiculous amount for them). Go with the newer T-8 tubes and electronic ballasts(more efficient and no 60 Hz flicker). I'm not sure what kind of lighting levels you are after, but I think at most 12 tubes should be sufficient. This would be ~35,000 lumens depending upon the ballasts, and would only consume maybe 360 watts. To do this with halogen would require ~1800 watts, and it would be the typical ugly yellow incandescent type light, not the nice white that full-spectrum flurorescents would give. Another alternative would be about 500 Luxeon IIIs(obviously not cost-effective).

If you are really serious about lighting the room to daylight levels, then think in terms of about 5000 lumens per square foot. I don't think this can be economically done with any type of light source except if you localize the lighting to a small area.

[markus_i]

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jtr1962 said:
If you are really serious about lighting the room to daylight levels, then think in terms of about 5000 lumens per square foot. I don't think this can be economically done with any type of light source except if you localize the lighting to a small area.

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Almost [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Try this one . It apparently has just one problem: it's too bright for practical use.

Bye
Markus

[Zelandeth]

Hmm, for some reason I'm thinking of Blended mercury vapour lamps here...but I have a funny feeling that they weren't as efficient as I'm thinking, and I'm pretty sure that nobody even makes them any more.

Something I do have to add to the collection though.

Got a 250W HPS floodlamp in here that I use when I need serious light, unfortunately, is isn't daylight coloured, and it does suffer from 100Hz flicker. 25'000(0?) lux if I remember rightly though, and is REALLY bright.

[paulr]

jtr1962, thanks, that helped and that site you linked has some interesting stuff. The area I want to light is maybe 100 sq feet, so 5000 lumens/sq ft would be more than 5 kw of power which I don't think I can handle. Your suggestion of T8 tubes makes more sense. Also that place has 65 watt CF bulbs for $30 or so. I might try a couple of those to begin with.

Markus, that sulfur/argon thing is intriguing! I don't think it's nearly ready for home use though.

[jtr1962]

Glad to be of help. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Please let me know what you think of the 65W CF bulbs if you order any. While the 4-foot tubes are the most cost-effective solution if you need massive amounts of light, a few 65W CFLs focused on a small area might give you the intensity levels you need. Lighting a room that size to daylight levels would be pretty much impossible without spending a small fortune. Maybe if those sulfur lamps get under $100 it might not be. 135,000 lumens in a 100 square foot room would be a sight to see. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[paulr]

Do you know about much I'd have to spend for the 4-foot tubes, including ballasts, fixtures, and everything? The nice thing about the CF bulbs is I can put them in ordinary light sockets.

[Sigman]

I have that problem in the morning and have been considering a light from the folks at www.apollolight.com.

The retail price on the Brite Lite IV is $299, but they have it on sale for $279...HOWEVER our Sam's Club has them for $153. It's a portable unit that I've been considering.

They have smaller models as well as dawn simulators.

[paulr]

Those boxes look a little bit hokey, there's no specification of their power consumption or lumen output that I see (maybe I missed it). And they're kind of small. It looks like they're intended for treating mood problems caused by not getting enough light. My situation is a little bit different, my mood is ok but I have trouble getting up in the morning and feel sleepy until I get outside, which means I tend to take way too long to get my morning stuff done. So I have the idea that lighting my room very brightly will help me wake up and get going more quickly. But that requires lighting the whole room or most of it, not just having a box lighting a few square feet. On the other hand, hopefully I don't have to run it for very long (and use so much electricity) every day.

[jtr1962]

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paulr said:
Do you know about much I'd have to spend for the 4-foot tubes, including ballasts, fixtures, and everything? The nice thing about the CF bulbs is I can put them in ordinary light sockets.

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That's very true if you already have an incandescent lamp or two and want to try full-spectrum fluorescent light. However, fixtures are cheap(a four-tube fixture is ~$40 at Home Depot) and the tubes really shine(no pun intended) when you count overall cost of usage. The tubes last 34,000 hours vs. 10,000, and cost $7 to replace versus $30. Efficiency is superior at ~92 lm/W vs. 70 lm/W. Even assuming you need two 4-foot tubes to give the light of a 65W CF the tubes are still cheaper to operate by a factor of about seven. Besides, I already have fluorescent fixtures everywhere. I don't see much point to incandescent lighting except for lights that need to be switched on and off frequently. They use too much power and the light quality is awful, especially for colors in the blue family which look purple under incandescent. I wish new construction in this country would have preinstalled 4-foot fluorescent fixtures in every room instead of bulb sockets. It might actually encourage more people to use a much superior form of lighting and save energy.

[paulr]

I can't imagine using any of these lights for anything like 10,000 hours. At 1 hour a day that's over 20 years. So the bulb life just isn't an issue. Does the $40/fixture include ballasts? If not, I think they're around $8 each, so one tubes with ballast and 1/4 of a fixture would be about $25, pretty close to what the CF bulb costs. I didn't realize there was such an efficiency difference though--it means the output is about the same. With the CF bulbs, I just need some 89 cent ceramic sockets mounted to a wooden board.

I do have a couple incandescent lamps around so CF is certainly the easiest way to get started. I think I'll order one or two of those bulbs and see how it goes; then I can think about the 4 foot fixtures if I get more ambitious. Thanks!!!

[jtr1962]

Yep, that's including the ballasts. In fact, that's the only way Home Depot sells fixtures. I remember they also have a two-tube T-8 shoplight for $15 I think, again complete with ballast.

You're right about lamp life not being an issue for the use you intend. I have the lights in my bedroom on about 10 hours a day on average so that's another story, but then it's only a 2-tube fixture so electricity isn't a big concern.

The CF bulbs are the best way to get started. If they're anything like the tubes, you should be happy. Anyway, keep everyone here informed of your impressions. I may eventually buy one or two CF bulbs from them for my desk lamp or a reading lamp.

[paulr]

I just posted a note about the CF bulbs to the group buy section of BST. I think I want one or two 65 watt bulbs and one or two 25 watt bulbs (fit in smaller lamps) to get started. I'm hoping to fill out an order for 12 bulbs total to get a qty discount and free shipping.

Are those Home Depot ballasts as good as the kind that the tube place sells (electronic I guess)? Are magnetic ballasts a thing of the past? I'm not much up on this stuff, as you can see.

The $15 two-tube shoplight sounds interesting too. (4 feet long!?). Maybe I'll go to Home Depot and take a look at one.

Thanks again

[jtr1962]

I would say the Home Depot ballasts are not quite as good as the other kind, meaning that they're not dimmable, may be a bit less efficient, and aren't as universal in the types of tubes they can drive. All that being said, they're fine for 99% of normal uses, including yours. I'm very happy with the fixture in the kitchen, for example. Yes, magnetic ballasts are on the way out. Electronic ballasts are more efficient than magnetics, and avoid one of the major complaints of fluorescent lighting(i.e. flicker) by driving the tubes at a high enough frequency that they light continuously. Some of Home Depot's T-12 fixtures have magnetic ballasts, but all of the T-8 ones have electronic ballasts. Even though it's not recommended, a T-12(1.5 inch diameter) tube will usually work on a fixture with a T-8(1-inch tube) ballast, but not the other way around.

Regarding the shoplight, the only thing to check is to make sure not to buy anything made by Lights of America. Their fixtures have gotton particularly poor reviews on other sites. Problems ran from very short bulb life to complete failure of the ballast.

I just checked Home Depot's site. The $15.99 shoplight has a magnetic ballast. They do have a twin-tube(four-foot tubes) $19.97 shoplight with an electronic T-8 ballast by Commercial Electric. I've used Commercial Electric CF bulbs with no problems so their shoplight should be OK.

[jtr1962]

I picked up two shoplights at Home Depot yesterday for $7.25 each. SKU number was 140904. Here are more detailed specifications. In case the link doesn't take you directly to the product(it doesn't seem to work with all browsers), go to page 3, scroll down to the last item, and click on the link.

One fixture was a bit noisier than the other, but considering the price I was very happy. The fixtures have an instant start electronic ballast, and best of all it specifically says on the reflector that you can use F40T12, F34T12, F25T12, or F32T8 tubes. In other words, pretty much any four-foot tube out there can be used with this fixture. In terms of cost per lumen for your lighting project, this is probably as good as it gets-full spectrum T8 tubes are $7 each, so the total cost is about $22 with tax (not including shipping) per two-tube fixture. My full-spectrum T-8 tubes appear to light at full brightness, so you'll probably be getting close to 6000 lumens per fixture. Anyway, I thought I would let you know about this as it represents another option if you don't get enough people interested in a group buy of the CFLs. I'm still debating whether or not to buy two 23-watters.

I also picked up a four-tube T-8 fixture for my bedroom. According to the ballast specs I found online, it's driving my T-8 tubes at 80%, or 2360 lumens, for a total of 9440 lumens in a 110 square foot room. The room seems very bright(at least three times as bright as the old two-tube T-12 fixture). I'm guessing if you go the shoplight and T-8 tube route four to six shoplights(approximately 24000 to 36000 lumens) should do it for you.

[Zelandeth]

Hmm. Is that type of fixture sensitive to orientation? I've been looking for a way to increase the light in here for a while now - other than turning on the 250W SON-T floodlight under the other desk that is - and at that kind of price, seems unbeatable.

Plan would be though, to have one tube in each corner of the room, on the wall tucked into the corner. I'd figure out aesthetics later - probably go for a semi-opaque plastic sheet which I'd place a a 45 degree angle over the whole corner of the wall...not terribly technical, but should look okay, and work out pretty cheap - if I can find a source for the sheeting anyway.

Well, whether or not I do actually go ahead with it, you've made me realise that a previously dismissed (as too expensive) idea might actually work.

Thanks!

[jtr1962]

[ QUOTE ]

Hmm. Is that type of fixture sensitive to orientation? I've been looking for a way to increase the light in here for a while now - other than turning on the 250W SON-T floodlight under the other desk that is - and at that kind of price, seems unbeatable.


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As far as I know it shouldn't be. The ballast is electronic so it definitely isn't sensitive to orientation. Fluorescent tubes don't seem to be either. Neither the ballast not the tubes get hot enough that changing position would affect heat dissipation. Only caveat is that I would leave some openings for hot air to rise (and cool air to come up from underneath) to keep things from getting too hot.

Fluorescent tubes are the best way to brightly light an area. I'm sure that your SON-T floodlight lights the room up like a ballpark although I would guess color rendering is rather poor. Are you also interested in very bright light levels like paulr? I'm guessing you'll need a few hundred watts of fluoro light to achieve that in an average size room.

I just picked up a few more shoplights today. At that price they just can't be beat, and they're warranteed for two years. I don't know how they can make money on these.

[Zelandeth]

Rendering from the HPS lamp ain't great (Greens disappear a lot, and reds tend to look orangish), but is a heck of a lot better than from LPS. Generally speaking though I use it for when I'm working inside the case of a computer, or doing something delecate like soldering, just to get rid of shadows more than anything. And the colour rendering though off, is still more than sufficient for identifying wire and component colours (once used to it anyway).

And the cats like sunbathing in front of it.

Not talking about THAT high light levels normally (This is just one of "those" rooms that for some obscure reason always seems dark - no matter how many watts of light I throw at it). I just like flourescents, and it seems an elegant solution to a problem that's been bugging me for the last three years.

[jtr1962]

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Zelandeth said:
Rendering from the HPS lamp ain't great (Greens disappear a lot, and reds tend to look orangish), but is a heck of a lot better than from LPS.


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I haven't actually seen a LPS, but I heard everything under those looks like a monochromatic shade of yellow.

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And the cats like sunbathing in front of it.


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[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Funny, my remaining cat seems to like to stay in the rooms that have full-spectrum lighting (i.e. my bedroom and the kitchen). I guess they think it's really the sun.

[Zelandeth]

Well, LPS is amber, pure monochromatic amber...HPS has a broader spectrum.

Think it's atually the heat they're after, as the reflector throws most of that out the front of the light as well (I have been known to sit there as well if it's particularly cold in here!), as even if I have no lights on (aside from an always on blue LED in the emergency light), they'll always end up curled up in front of the heater - just tend to relocate to the light if that's on.