Gas, vrses battery?

[VidPro]

Weird question, but Pound for Pound, which one will put out the most lumens for the most hours?
a Florescent camplight and Lantern battery, or a Multifuel MANTLE lantern , with the same weight in unleaded gasoline?

we all know mantles are just waiting to break, and because of breakage they are expencive, and they can output LIGHT like a 100 watt light or more.

they have "convertable" stoves, with mantle lanterns, that have the practicality of dual use with the same "energy" source, assuming you need to pack a stove.

So what is the actuality of the weight ratios?
seems like the gas never last long enough compared to a lantern battery, but then again, the gas mantle light can get very bright, and the florescent portables are not a shop light [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

For the purposes of comparison, i suppose alkaline in the lantern battery would be of fair weight, and good capacity, and strong enough to work for at least as long as the gas at relative outputs.

the gas wastes loads of energy in HEAT, sometimes usefull, but visable light is the main concideration.

this could also lead me to wondering about the realities of a "gas battery" like a hydrogen fuel cell, assuimg that the hydrogen could be compressed to the point of a liquid.

[PeLu]

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VidPro said:
Weird question, but Pound for Pound, which one will put out the most lumens for the most hours?

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No doubt, carbide lights and gas mantle lanterns are far ahead.
My best lanterns (German Geniol) give about 4000-5000lm at a consumption of about 100g kerosene per hour.
Smaller ones are less effective.
[Numbers corrected at 22th]

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we all know mantles are just waiting to break,

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Geniol offers (offered?) a gasmantle with two attachment points (at a slightly lower light output) and I had several gasmantles lasting for many years and transported the unlit lantern for thousands of km in our car.
Good quality gasmantles are not only brighter, their mesh is denser and therefore more stable.
Better use an inexpensive lantern with good gasmantles as the opposite.

The heat output could be used for making coffee or warming water. I've made a setup for puttting one of these Italian espresso machines on top.
Also a little bit of electricity could be gained with Peltier elements.

Main drawback is that you have to keep silly people from fiddling around....

[VidPro]

ok so Gas (kerosine):
26G 1400lm per hour

and a florescent can do about 1400lm with about 23 watts per hour.
so now all i need to calculate is the total wattage, and weight of a lantern battery, to get a (about) comparison.
alkaline lantern battery (from only one source) 2 lbs, for 30W.
453grams to a lb, so the lantern battery weighs in at about 900 grams.

florescent lantern with alkaline batteries:
692G 1400lm per hour (about)

then to continue (beyond the original question), something rechargable, and packed with power, that doesnt weigh as much, but still has a good discharge rate
Saft MP 176065 - a 150G rectangular bagged li-ion , latest technology with (about) 25.5W in it.

Newest Li-Ion bagged:
136G 1400lm per hour

Hey now were getting somewhere [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PeLu]

It is still not easy to compare and you should also calculate some more losses for the electric setup.
But we see that we are in a similar range.
Except that it is quite easy to take several liters of kersone (or petrol) with you and that an electric light has some handling and acoustic benefits .-)

I do even have 23W fluorescents with 1500lm......

But... I got the number wrong in my above posting:

The larger lantern claims to give 500 HK, which turnes out to be more like 4-5000 lm.
Sorry for the confusion...

[VidPro]

what a mess [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
you actually Measured a 23W at 1500lumens?

now i have to do all that nasty math over again [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Lynx_Arc]

I think one thing that should be accounted for is the final cost of running a lantern using alkaline vs gas of some sort. I am guessing it will turn out cheaper in the U.S. to run gas by a long shot, not as cheap in other countries with higher gas prices but still cheaper than batteries. The exception is rechargable battery operation which would add initial cost but do away with battery cost after about 6-10 recharges.

[PeLu]

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VidPro said:
you actually Measured a 23W at 1500lumens?

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No, it is the manufacturer's data .-) You may believe it or not, but it is a least Osram (a well known manufacturer at least here).

[ QUOTE ]
Lynx_Arc said:
I think one thing that should be accounted for is the final cost of running a lantern using alkaline vs gas of some sort. I am guessing it will turn out cheaper in the U.S. to run gas by a long shot, not as cheap in other countries with higher gas prices but still cheaper than batteries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Countries with higher gas price also have higher battery prices .-)

We, for example, have several gas mantle lanterns in undergrund camps. We just take some fuel with us, from time to time. This would be completely impossible with rechargeables or primary cells.
(even that I thought about making an underground power plant).
We would prefer the gasmantle lamps even when the cost would be the same.

[VidPro]

ahh, the 14W ones we have here are rated 900. i guess that is more bad stats on my part.