Is this a good inexpencive charger?

[Alonzo]

I'm still in school so I don't have that much money to buy a quality charger. But I'm tired of my old NiMH charger where you have to charge batteries in pairs. So I found this charger on dealextreme:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6152

So I wondered if any of you good people here have any experience with it? Doesnt seem to have delta cutoff, but some other kinds of safety measures, is it enough?

Thanks.

 

[Mr Happy]

It appears to be a Chinese counterfeit of the Sony BCG-HRMF4 charger. However, although it looks similar to the Sony on the outside, it will not have the same quality as the real Sony charger on the inside. It doesn't even come with a US-style plug.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a very long stick.

Stick to a reputable brand available from a mainstream supplier. You may spend a little more money, but it will be money well spent.

 

[Alonzo]

But as I said, I dont have that much money. And most of the chargers I've encountered have been made in China, and I havent had any problems with those ones. Also I prefer an european plug over an US...
Has anyone here tried it? It good some good reviews from DX.

 

[Bones]

In a ideal world, Soshine would be original equipment manufacturer for the Sony, and this would actually be the Sony rebranded.

This may even be the case, especially with both labelled Made in China, as per the following images:

http://images.enet.com.cn ... 1122438742809.jpg

http://www.dealextreme.com ... sku_6152_4.jpg

You will also note though, that the charge rates diverge for AAA cells between the brands.

There is also one comment in particular from the DealExtreme forum to consider:

If you do a Google image search for 'Sony BCG-34HRMD' they do look the same, however the search will also come up with some images of the inside circuit. Compared to the customer image of the Soshine circuit the Sony circuitry looks much more complicated. So I guess they might not be the same.

The forum thread:

http://www.dealextreme.com ... threadid.12178

The Google image search:

http://images.google.com ... BCG-34HRMD

The DealExtreme customer images:

http://www.dealextreme.com ... id.3501

More images of both brands for comparison:

http://www.enet.com.cn ... A20050727438947.shtml

http://www.dealextreme.com ... sku.6152

A couple of forum threads touching on both brands:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post1206429

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2211809

 

[Mr Happy]

Hey Bones, nice research, lots of detail there.

In a ideal world, Soshine would be original equipment manufacturer for the Sony, and this would actually be the Sony rebranded.

This may even be the case, especially with both labelled Made in China, as per the following images:

What actually tends to happen though, is something different. A big name manufacturer will design a product and then contract out the manufacture to a company in China, making sure it gets produced to the right specification and quality standards. However, in doing this, the complete product design specifications get onto the black market inside China, and the same manufacturer or another manufacturer will start producing a rip-off of the original item and sell it without authorization.

The rip-off item may look similar, but it does not have the same quality controls or oversight that the original has. It may use sub-standard components to cut costs, and the design may even be simplified for the same reason.

If you buy the Chinese clone, you really do not know what you are getting. You can see from the photos Bones linked to that the outside may look similar, but the internals do not look the same at all.

 

[Hondo]

Not sure if you have access to "Big Lots" stores, but:

For that price point (less) I have been very pleased with the Rayovac 4 independent channel charger they sell, with two 2000 mAh cells included. It charges at a simillar rate (including the fact that it is half the current with 3 or for cells vs 1 or 2), and mine has nailed the termination on older junk cells that slower charging models will miss. Has standard US cord, nice LED feedback on each bay, just no discharge capability. They are only $8 each.

Hondo

 

[Mr Happy]

I think Alonzo is in Europe, but probably the same Rayovac charger is sold in Europe too. I also think it would be much better to buy something with a recognized pedigree like the Rayovac charger. More likely that it will be electrically safe, less likely that it will damage your batteries.

 

[Bones]

Before abandoning the Soshine, it might be worthwhile to determine exactly which version DealExtreme is selling.

I just notice the DealExtreme numbers in the listing match the Sony's exactly, so the customer images on their site may be outdated.

The current model on the Soshine site also matches the Sony's numbers:

http://soshine.com.cn ... Products184.htm

As well, these images show internals that, at a glance, look much closer to the Sony's:

http://www.ygxx.com ... Soshine%2BSC-C3

If the internals match, the Soshine could be a very good deal, especially considering it has a refresh function and will be delivered to your door for just under 14 dollars.

Alonzo, if you still like this charger, perhaps you should rename the thread to clarify that you are seeking comments on the Soshine model SC-C3.

That may increase the chances that a current owner will notice and provide feedback.

 

[Mr Happy]

As well, these images show internals that, at a glance, look much closer to the Sony's:

I do observe that the pictures of the Sony model show temperature sensors on each cell, whereas the pictures of the Soshine model do not. Note also several user comments on the Soshine similar to the following: "after the end of rechargeable battery feeling warm, almost two."

 

[Bones]

I do observe that the pictures of the Sony model show temperature sensors on each cell, whereas the pictures of the Soshine model do not. Note also several user comments on the Soshine similar to the following: "after the end of rechargeable battery feeling warm, almost two."

That's disappointing.

I don't suppose you anything else on board that could still do the job?

Considering its price, it would nice to determine this was a decent quality charger, especially with its refresh capability.

Also, Soshine is a known brand, so it's not quite the same as if it was a totally generic product with no indication of its pedigree.

 

[Mr Happy]

That's disappointing.

I don't suppose you anything else on board that could still do the job?

If you look at the area of the circuit board between the battery contact springs, the Sony charger in two different pictures shows many circuit components and a row of four sensors lined up underneath where each of the cells go, so that each cell rests on a sensor.

In the Soshine pictures, the same area of circuit board is quite empty and has nothing like the same number of components. So my impression is that the Soshine has much simplified circuitry compared to the Sony.

I have not encountered the Soshine brand before, so I can't speak to its reputation. My inclination from what I have seen and from their website is that I would not want to risk my batteries in that charger. Just my personal feeling.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Man, a confused world could use more people like you, Bones! Forget Ask Jeeves... just Ask Bones! Maybe you should expand your handle to "Diggin'-Up Bones!"

 

[Fallingwater]

I had a Soshine RCR123 charger. It would routinely overcharge LiIon cells if they were left in after the charge light indicated charge complete.

I solved the problem by buying an expensive Hyperion 5i AC/DC charger meant for RC models.

I'm afraid "good" and "inexpensive" don't go well together...

 

[UnknownVT]

FWIW - SoShine's page on the SC-C3 - claims -

"Automatic Temperature Monitoring - as your rechargeable batteries charge - prevents heat damage. "

It actually claims all these -

"Automatic analyzes each battery - to determine battery state prior to charging.
Automatic detection of defective batteries.
Automatic Charge Level Detection - for termination once your rechargeable batteries are fully charged.
Automatic Temperature Monitoring - as your rechargeable batteries charge - prevents heat damage.
Automatic Cut-off Safety Timer Feature - Protects your rechargeable batteries from over charging
Automatic Alkaline Battery detection - prevents charging of non-rechargeable batteries. "

It does not have UL -
but it does have CE marking.

 

[Turbo DV8]

If you look at the area of the circuit board between the battery contact springs, the pictures show a row of four sensors lined up underneath where each of the cells go, so that each cell rests on a sensor. In the Soshine pictures, the same area of circuit board is quite empty and has nothing like the same number of components.

I believe I see two temperature sensors on the Soshine nearer the negative contacts, with one between bays 1 & 2 and the other between bays 3 & 4. Although not four individual sensors like the Sony (where they are located nearer the positive contacts) it is similar to the paired temp sensors on the La Crosse BC-900 V.32.


Also, why does it appear on one picture of the Sony the temp sensors look like thermistors, but on another picture the four components under each cell in the same location look like diodes?

 

[Mr Happy]

I believe I see two temperature sensors on the Soshine nearer the negative contacts, with one between bays 1 & 2 and the other between bays 3 & 4. Although not four individual sensors like the Sony (where they are located nearer the positive contacts) it is similar to the paired temp sensors on the La Crosse BC-900 V.32.

Well spotted, I didn't pick up on that. Do they seem like they are suitably positioned to make good thermal contact with the cells though?

Also, why does it appear on one picture of the Sony the temp sensors look like thermistors, but on another picture the four components under each cell in the same location look like diodes?

I noticed that too. This reference sheds some light on it: http://www.vias.org/encyclopedia/semicond_diode_basics.html

"A characteristic of each pn junction is the negative temperature coefficient of the forward bias. For silicon diodes, it amounts to approximately -2 mV/K and is constant over a wide temperature range. This temperature coefficient has the consequence that semiconductor circuits are always temperature sensitive. This causes problems particularly with analog high-precision circuits (AD converters, reference elements, and so on), which must be circumvented using technical circuiting tricks. The advantage of the temperature coefficient however is that a diode can also be used as a temperature sensor."

 

[Turbo DV8]

Well spotted, I didn't pick up on that. Do they seem like they are suitably positioned to make good thermal contact with the cells though?

They look more like randomly-placed blobs, to me. One flopped this way at an angle, another flopped the other way nearly flat to the board... They look more like they were thrown in just so they could brag about their presence in the specs!

Interesting about the diodes for temp sensors. But, how do they know the diodes will activate at the temperature approaching danger for a charging cell? Blind luck?

 

[Mr Happy]

But, how do they know the diodes will activate at the temperature approaching danger for a charging cell?

I believe the electrical characteristics of a diode can be quite precisely known. For example, the forward bias voltage on a silicon diode is 0.6 V at room temperature. According to the reference it decreases by 2 mV for each degree rise in temperature. When the temperature has increased by 50 K, the forward bias voltage has decreased by 50 x 0.002, thus decreasing to 0.5 V. You just need a circuit that compares the forward bias voltage with a reference voltage.

 

[Alan B]

Diodes are commonly used as temperature sensors.

UL listing and CE listing are quite different things. Not interchangeable.

A couple of comments -

Battery-brand name chargers are often poor quality. I have looked at many that were nothing more than resistors to limit current for slow charging, and maybe a timer for a fast charger. In general I have not found battery-brand chargers to be very good. There are exceptions of course, but they are not cheap.

Charging at moderate rates is not hard to do well, so one way to save money is to buy a charger that takes a bit longer. It is often easier on the cells as well.

If you decide to buy the charger, just make sure that you check it out, and be prepared to return or toss it if it does not work well. Sometimes trying to save some $ results in having to buy twice, not save $.

A lot of what makes these fancy chargers good is the software. Hard to say if it is good from looking at the PCB. Have to test it.

-- Alan

 

[UnknownVT]

UL listing and CE listing are quite different things. Not interchangeable.

Correct -
UL isting is for the USA -
in Europe CE marking is standard (they do NOT have UL)

CE mark - Wikipedia

see also -

CE Mark, CE Marking, CE certification and CE Approval

UL at Wikipedia

UL | Marks and Labels