Why Surefire?

[red02]

I haven't tried a Fenix, so I'll leave them out, but I have had every other mfg. (including Inova, although I like the over-all design/function of there lights) fail on me, or cease to function properly, except Surefire. And not through rough use per-se. They just quit working right...Inova's, Mini- M@g's, Nuwai, Dorcy. I have had bulbs blow in my SF's, and broke one (a tail-cap, but the light still functioned). For me it's the rock solid, functional, high-tech, yet "simple" design that makes them dead reliable. The finish...the small details, like high quality O-rings, smooth threads...high quality aluminum, THICKER aluminum than most.

They build there lights for long term serviceability...yeah, they COULD run the LED's higher/harder for more out-put, and shorten the life of the light, but they strike a good balance of maximizing the light out-put and getting a good service life out of the LED. I'm sure these other lights that are ran at the max will have pretty crappy looking beams in about 5 years, if the lights survive that long.

I would never buy a Titan, but my 1st gen G2 is about 7 years old, O-ring is till in excellent shape, and the light works fine...there's nothing that can really fail on it, and I think they intentionally incorporate that in to alot of their design.

Ok, that's enough to chew on for a little. Great thread OP!

Oh, did I mention they have THE BEST CS in the business??? That also should be (and I believe IS) factored into the cost.

+1

Every light I've had (besides LRI) has either failed, malfunctioned or in some other way did not work as expected or advertised. I think thats unacceptable. A few just up and quit on me, and I decided that I've had it.

Cheap lights cost too much time, effort and money.

Surefire isn't for everyone. There are many who don't use their lights enough to justify the asking price. Not everyone needs a power drill. Some people are better off with a cordless or just a screw driver. After buying 3 Surefires (6P, Saint, G2 LED) I'm completely sold on this company. Its not about the lm/dollar, but the high value and solid reliability of these tools.

 

[fyrstormer]

Where are the reports of Fenix and other lights failing like that? Where are the surefire torture tests?

There are reports of Fenix/Jetbeam/etc. lights failing all the time, and getting them repaired is a pain. There's a thread right now summarizing one guy's attempts to get his RRT-1 fixed.

As for the torture tests: http://www.surefire.com/truestories How's an IED attack for a torture test?

 

[NoFair]

Generally Surefires are bright enough and the build quality is above and beyond most other makers. This is one of the reasons why upgrading older Surefires with newer leds is very popular. The rest of the light is still great and with a quick led swap it is again on the cutting edge brightness wise. I've done this with most of my old Surefire LED lights and they are as good, or better, as anything else on the market.

Newer Surefires are as bright as the competition, but they generally take their time in upgrading the stat sheets.

Take a look at the LX2, it is about as good as it gets for a 2 cr123 light:thumbsup:

Sverre

PS! Hope the sheath business goes well

 

[WHT_GE8]

There are reports of Fenix/Jetbeam/etc. lights failing all the time, and getting them repaired is a pain. There's a thread right now summarizing one guy's attempts to get his RRT-1 fixed.

As for the torture tests: http://www.surefire.com/truestories How's an IED attack for a torture test?

So surefires NEVER fail? And if a Fenix can withstand equal torture tests as a surefire why pay triple the price?

 

[fyrstormer]

So now you've gone from "who's testing SureFires?" to "just because they're really good doesn't mean they're perfect". First of all: there are stories on that site of lights surviving bomb blasts. That beats dropping it on concrete any day. But you're right, they're not perfect, I'm sure plenty of SureFires went down-for-the-count after getting blown up. But you can get SureFire parts shipped next-day, if you can't find a dealer locally. Can't do that with Made In China.

 

[aldagoods]

2 cents on customer service. I have an old E2e incan. Emailed surefire helpline about a week ago saying my o-ring at the head is going out. Got replacements in the mail 2 days ago, no questions asked. Free of charge. Pretty damn sweet.

That aside, being deep in mex, middle of nowhere with no ambient city light, the little E2e blew doors off the mags everyone else had.

That aside also - Ive got a 6PL and a mod LED head for the E2e-- you just cannot avoid how easy it is to make surefires what you want.

 

[fareast]

So surefires NEVER fail? And if a Fenix can withstand equal torture tests as a surefire why pay triple the price?

Any flashlight you can buy today and tomorrow can and still will fail. Always. Batteries will run dry, led's will go faint, filaments burn up, metal get's chipped, drivers will have electronic problems, clickies go bad, rubber wears off, glass breaks, sapphire shatters, plastics scratch, things get lost, the sun will rise tomorrow...

There is no perfect light, just many samples.

To each their own.

 

[red02]

So surefires NEVER fail? And if a Fenix can withstand equal torture tests as a surefire why pay triple the price?

Thats a really, really big "IF".

I completely expected to have my ZL H501 for years. Unfortunately after 4 months of regular use it quit. No warning, no abuse, just stopped working and thats it. No threads on reliability problems, nor any indication that it would quit so soon. I've heard stories of a H501 surviving a deployment to Iraq, but how does that help me? If after 1 year ZL won't care about me or my purchase, Surefire will.

Why pay 3x the price?

First off, thats not accurate. Plenty of dealers give generous discounts and the CPFMP is a great source for lights. Many people get scared off by the MSRP when there are other choices.

Neither Fenix nor any other company make the light I need or want, Surefire does. My money goes to the best tool for the job. More often than not its going to be a Surefire.

Like I said its not for everyone.

 

[angelofwar]

Thats a really, really big "IF".

If after 1 year ZL won't care about me or my purchase, Surefire will.

Why pay 3x the price?

Neither Fenix nor any other company make the light I need or want, Surefire does.

Yep. After 4 months over here in the sand-box, the extra tolerance in the threads have allowed my SF twisties to still function with relative ease even with all the sand built up on them from sand storms and just the excessive sand/dust in the air. I can clean them now, but think I'll wait till I get back, since it has yet to affect the performance. The threads on my other 2-3 lights are starting to get gritty and hard to use.

31 Surefires and Counting, 5 parts replaced free and fast, ZERO "failures"...

Like RED02 said though, it's not for everyone...

 

[SureAddicted]

I have owned many brands for YEARS and have never have a light fail on me. People say surefire is reliable which may be true, but my $70 Fenix has not failed me once. Look up the Fenix TK40 test. It was frozen, boiled, dropped 50+ times on concrete from a building, ran over and more. And it still worked flawlessly. If you guys are putting your lights through more torture than that then maybe surefire would be fine. But I can get 3 lights for the price of one surefire, that would still function when I need it to. Where are the reports of Fenix and other lights failing like that? Where are the surefire torture tests? Surefire makes great lights, but are extremely overpriced, underpowered, outdated, and overrated.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/233856

Your post was absolutely not necessary, this isn't a SureFire vs Fenix thread. Secondly the OP is asking about SureFire, why people like it, and the mystique around it.

TwinBlade, don't get too hung up on the origin of a light. Instead look at companies that have tight QC, which SF has, and it has been proven over and over. SF could be based in a village out in the Amazon jungle and they'd still be producing quality flashlights with tight QC. By QC, I don't mean having a quick look over the light before shipping off. Also having a lifetime guarantee cements the thought of ANY SureFire lasting longer than you would.

 

[Xacto]

[...]solid design and construction, and for some, the ability to modify.

I second that and add die ability to swap/ replace every component of the light. I consider my SF 6Ps an asset in my self-defense setup, so I like the fact that I can get a new lens/head assembly just in case.

[...]
Having said that, I think they are built robust and overengineered.

A feeling they convey when held in the hand.

2 cents on customer service. [....]

Something I took into consideration when I started my Surefire buying spree.... which still continues.

[...]But I want to know that five, ten or more years down the road, there is a good chance the company will still be around for parts and service. [...]

Considering that I wanted a Surefire for a good 13 years before finally buying one (always a 6P), they already proved that requirement.


One reason that has not been stated - because it has the "The Cops use it" coolness factor. :devil:

Cheers
Thorsten

 

[jtblue]

I always thought of Surefire as just an ordinary company with a massive mark up in $$$ but after surfing this site, I saw what seperated this brand from the rest.

I tend to think of lights as tools, I want a tool that will simply work when i want/need it to and surefire fits the bill perfectly (not that other brands can't perform to that capacity but surefire leaves me with peace of mind).

Surefire quality is something that is rare in this day in age.

P.S. Just because it says "made in china" doesn't mean its super duper, unfeakingly believably crap; I've heard that too many times but it's ironic when you realise what people are wearing, texting with, eating with and what fills 90% of their houses.

End of rant :toilet:

Jeremy.

 

[LumensMaximus]

Why buy a Rolex when a Timex does the same thing... :thumbsup:

 

[fivemega]

Why buy a Rolex when a Timex does the same thing... :thumbsup:

Timex doesn't attract attentions.

 

[LumensMaximus]

Timex doesn't attract attentions.

My sentiments, exactly :twothumbs

 

[etc]

I have owned many brands for YEARS and have never have a light fail on me. People say surefire is reliable which may be true, but my $70 Fenix has not failed me once.

I have. Had one fail on me. One of those L2D "digital" models with several modes. The driver went crazy and it went into this wild mode, flashing in random patterns, like Morse code, unable to come out of it. I will say that Fenix is more innovative and has more features and more lumens in some cases but the build quality is not similar to Surefire. Just compare the tailcap thread of the Surefire vs. others. That was the Surefire selling point for me.

For mission critical stuff, get a 6P with Malkoff and Z41 tailcap and primary CR123A cells. You cannot break it even if you throw it against the wall. Or from twisting the stupid thing on a gazillion times. It just runs and runs no matter what.

I would buy SOB (Some Other Brand) if it was cheaper (Like 10 FRNs), but at their price point, which is *not* cheap, I expect more, I would rather spend just a bit more and get a Surefire and mod it.

Price is price but there is also the concept of "value". Surefire is great "value" but not necessarily great price.

Never buy a multi-mode lite if you want 100% reliability... IME (In My Experience)
I only used single-mode SF or clones in the last few years with no issues.

 

[jellydonut]

I understand entirely why police and military buy Surefire - personally I stick to Malkoff, custom and others but I can see the rationale. If I had a weapon to stick one on I would be putting a Surefire or at least a Surefire-based build on it.

-Made in the US
-Bombproof reputation
-Great CS (if you'll ever need it..)
-Simple UIs.

Thing is, for me, Malkoff does all that too so I don't need to buy any Surefires.:nana: But as I said I can see why people do.

 

[carrot]

A surprisingly refreshing take on an old question.

I like Surefire for several reasons. but most importantly they have the highest quality machining of all production flashlights and well-engineered designs (ergonomics, reliability, durability).

Many other flashlight companies design lights in CAD, and send it off to the machinists and package it up. Surefire takes a lengthy amount of actual meat-time to test physical prototypes for ease of use, ease of carry, and reliability. I only know for certain of one other company in the flashlight industry that does this, and the quality of their designs show, as well.

A sweet bonus to being "in" on Surefires is that there's a huge aftermarket community supporting Surefires, and the coolest part is that a 6P part today will fit a 6P from three decades ago. Since I started out on Surefire when LED had yet to become so hideously popular, I was able to upgrade all my Surefires to a newer technology at minimal cost. Look at all the other flashlight brands out there. How many aftermarket parts do you see? None?

Do I need the highest quality? No. Do I need some of the best-engineered designs on the market? No. But I enjoy having something that's designed just so well that you are surprised at how good it is every time you use it. Sometimes a product is frustrating to use because it gets so many things right except for one or two things that really bother. The reason I buy Surefire is the same reason I buy Spyderco, ESEE, Victorinox, Apple, and Endeavour and McGizmo and Dozier: these are companies or individuals who are really concerned with making a product for users.

 

[TwinBlade]

Well that sure was a lot to read after getting my beauty sleep!

First of all, my original post came knowing FULL WELL the answers I would get due to brand loyalty, popularity, build quality and the recent thread regarding a new military contract that SF landed.

I have been out of the service since 1994, and back then, I had the old incandescent 2 "D" right angle flashlight issued to me. I do not need a light for any tactical situation anymore, although if this economy ever turns around, I have aspirations to go into law enforcement, but the common factor involved in most of these replies, is Customer Service beyond compare, attention to detail and build quality with an excellent QC and R&D team, exceptionally well machined (I appreciate that being a machinist myself) and something I did NOT know, they set the standard many years back by which all others follow. That alone merits tremendous praise. I can think of no greater commendation than to say I was copied...or at least followed.

I am going to look into getting a SF 6P Defender. I was happy to have seen several mentions of the 6P in here because I had my eye on it before I made this post. The new model puts out 120 lumens for an impressive 9 hours claimed. That's pretty incredible...price is good too on it IMO.

As long as we are on the "buying" topic, can I get some recommendations for local dealers on these forums?

Thanks to everyone who took time to help. It is greatly appreciated. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jeff

 

[yowzer]

Surefire's target audience is not the folks who want the latest and greatest XY-G Z5 bin LED, or who want to squeeze every single last possible lumen out of a light, or every last second of battery life, or who like fancy UIs with tons of output options and/or configurability (With a few exceptions). In other words, your typical flashaholic. They aim at people who want a simple reliable light that provides enough light; police, military, etc. And in that market, they're at the top of the flashlight foodchain. The legoability with third-party parts makes the aforementioned segments of the flashaholic population happy too.

They are expensive, yes (Some models I think are way overpriced, others are reasonable). But you don't have to pay full retail -- there's always good deals available on the marketplace.

I have two Surefires: An E1B Backup and an A2 Aviator. The first is a nice light but IMO a bit overpriced (I got mine used for a very nice price, though.) The Aviator... there's nothing else like it out there. Amazing light worth every penny (And I got it off the marketplace for more than I wanted to spend (Old style 4 flats body brings a premium), but still much less than retail.)

Will I get more SF lights? Yes.