The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

[js]

Two years, three months, and three days ago I sold my LunaSol 20 despite having said that I would never sell it and despite having heard and even having repeated the advice that one should never sell a McGizmo light. And for about two years and two months, I didn't really think about my LunaSol 20 much and thus didn't miss it much either.

But then the new guy at work turned out to also be a flashaholic and EDC's one of the NiteCore piston drive lights, and while I didn't care for the way that they implemented their "Smart PD" design, on the electronics side, it did make me remember just how much I loved the piston drive action, and just how much I loved the feel of the metal piston nub and just how much I really wasn't that crazy about rubber booties over clickie switches.

Now, don't get me wrong. I really like the McGizmo clicky switch! I converted my E2e LOTC to a clicky using one of his switches and I definitely prefer that to the LOTC (although I prefer the LOTC over the SureFire clicky). And I think the McGizmo clicky switch in the McGizmo clicky pack is even better. And it's the best feeling bootie of any clicky switch I have ever used. But . . . I still just LOVE LOVE LOVE the feel of the metal piston drive activation. Love it. I also love having a tritium vial in said metal piston tail!

Even so, all of this by itself wouldn't have been enough to make me want to get my LunaSol 20 back. However, the other thing I've come to realize is that--just as I said in this review--I just find a low-flood, high-throw combination light to be fantastically useful. I just do. I added a McGizmo Sapphire to my arsenal of lights (and before that was using my old Arc AAA LE--which has the crimp ring flickering problem). And adding this small, low level, flood light helped for all those tasks that needed such a beam. But it was still using two lights (Sapphire plus Haiku) where before I had only needed one (LunaSol 20).

So, I got my LunaSol 20 back. Well, sadly not my LunaSol 20. I did reach out to the person who bought my light, asking if he would sell it back to me, but alas, he didn't want to--which I of course, could totally understand. Fortunately, coloradogps had a spare LunaSol 20 which he decided he could sell to me. Thank you so much, coloradogps! :bow:

And, so, well, for the last week now, I have had a LunaSol 20 again and have been EDC'ing it.

I wondered, while I was waiting for it to arrive on my doorstep--would I find, after so much time, that my memories of the LunaSol 20 were rose-colored? Would I find it difficult to go back to a beam with a lower color rendering index?

Well, I find that my memories were right on and that all the pangs of regret at selling this light were totally justified. I was an IDIOT to ever sell it. And I also am quite pleasantly surprised at how decent the color rendering is on both beams. Not nearly as good as my High CRI Haiku, to be sure, but not bad either. And, more importantly, I am definitely convinced that having a low-flood, high-throw combination light is just freaking fantastically useful. Or it is for me and for my uses.

However, I also find that the High CRI Haiku is still, in my estimation, right up there with my LunaSol 20. It's the only smart, uC controlled UI that I like. I really like it. And I really dislike all the other smart uC controlled switching schemes that I've yet tried. The Haiku is an amazing light and Don's short-off-time switching scheme is the only way to go in this department, in my considered opinion. YMMV.

I sold my LunaSol 20 because I was so happy and pleased with the high CRI Nichia emitters and because I am not a collector and I hate the idea of a light that sits around unused, sitting in a drawer or in a safe or on a shelf. And more importantly, because I tend to be one of those people who kind of thinks in terms of "if I had to sell all my lights but one--if I could only keep one light . . ."

And, well, for the first time, I don't want to answer that question. I will keep my LunaSol 20 and my Haiku and my SunDrop and my Sapphire GS, thank you very much!

And, for the first time, I am embracing the concept of an EDC rotation. My Haiku will not sit unused, I can tell you that!

OK. Well, there it is. I wanted to set the record straight--or rather, update it, especially in light of my post above. I still feel, personally, that the 3S switching scheme has justifiably superseded the piston drive, for reasons which I detail in my Haiku thread. But, until there is a low-flood, high-throw combination 3S light, I will not say that any other light is better than the LunaSol 20 for EDC. YMMV!

 

[nbp]

Nice post, as always, js.

I too struggle at times, feeling like I have too many good EDC lights and I should streamline to just a few that cover all my bases. But it's so hard!

 

[nbp]

Test.

Something is screwed up, this thread won't show as having new posts in the thread listing. Grrrr

 

[kaichu dento]

Test.

Something is screwed up, this thread won't show as having new posts in the thread listing. Grrrr

Just showed up for me, but my First New Post button is non-existent on CPF.

 

[archimedes]

.... But, until there is a low-flood, high-throw combination 3S light, I will not say that any other light is better than the LunaSol 20 for EDC. YMMV!

Have you see the DaFAB LS mods yet ... ?

:devil:

 

[kaichu dento]

Have you see the DaFAB LS mods yet ... ?

:devil:

It hadn't crossed my mind that he may not have seen DaFabricata's thread -McGizmo Lunasol 20 update: LS20 "Point 1, 2, & 3"!

JS, let us know what you think now? I keep wanting to get this done, but have had a very hard time deciding to take it away from it's stock condition.

 

[js]

kaichu dento,

Thanks for the link. I spent some time checking them out and links within the link and some beamshots. I'd definitely heard about these mods before and I know people are always pretty thrilled with them--or at least I've never heard of anyone not being thrilled. So that's pretty awesome!

My initial concerns and questions on hearing about these were as follows:

1. The Golden Dragon is a very small die LED so that it mates well with the smaller center throw reflector. If you put something like an XP-G in instead, even if you increase the size of the reflector a bit, what will that do to beam geometry, throw, etc? The XP-G and similar sized LEDs, in the Haiku reflector (which is the full size of the head) is already described as "punchy flood". The beamshots I saw strongly suggest that there is good throw in these mods, which is great. But I would still need to see some of these in person in order to really feel confident that I would like the beam geometry.

2. I'm just as interested in the low flood beam--or more interested, really--and would have similar concerns. The low beam of the stock LS20 is far from perfect, of course, and maybe the DaFab mods have an even better low beam! I think I remember that those were the reports. But again, though, I'd really need to see it in person.

3. The only smart uC switching scheme I like is the one McGizmo uses in his 3S lights--a short off time for switching. If that is how the 4 level DaFab mods work, then, I might be OK with them. But if they work on a short on time, or just on a sequence, I'd definitely not want to mod my LS20 with more than the low-flood / high-throw setup option.

4. Maybe I'd get used to the look of the more radical LS20 mods, but at this point, and for some time now, I much prefer the symmetrical look of the stock LS20, or the first mod I saw in one of those links or links within links. The ones with the offset throw reflector and offset flood emitter look very weird to me!

5. The LunaSol 20 is already a pretty expensive light! So dropping more money to mod it is harder to swallow than usual! LOL!

6. But . . . mostly . . . I have spent so much time with the stock LunaSol 20 and love it so, that I just don't want to mess with it. If I had TWO LunaSol 20's, and a lot more disposable income, well then I might send one off to DaFAB! But that's probably never going to happen. Honestly, by rights, I really shouldn't own as many expensive lights as I do. I'm far from rich and have some credit card debt at this point--owning an old house will do that, I've found. It was in no way a sound financial move for me to buy back a LunaSol 20. And financial reasons were part of why I sold my original LunaSol two years ago. But, I just didn't care. I needed my LunaSol 20 back, come what may. *grin*

However, the important thing is that thanks to DaFABRICATA people have the option to put more modern emitters in their LunaSols and have the option to have more than two levels. This is all kinds of awesome! And, to DaFAB, I say :bow: incredible work sir! Bravo!

 

[ma tumba]

After getting my first LS20 a few days ago I would agree that one should keep at least one of them in their stock form. It looks and handles just so nice.

However, the cool tint is barely acceptable at day time and totally not acceptable in the dark. It is quite clear to me and have been sciantifically proven that, the low is the illumination the warmer should be the tint for the best subjective perception. Speaking of an LS20, this pertains mostly to the low flood mode.

So, unfortunately for my wallet, I will need a second LS20 to be sent to FeFabricata for one of his mods.

 

[kaichu dento]

The Golden Dragon is a very small die LED so that it mates well with the smaller center throw reflector. If you put something like an XP-G in instead, even if you increase the size of the reflector a bit, what will that do to beam geometry, throw, etc? The XP-G and similar sized LEDs, in the Haiku reflector (which is the full size of the head) is already described as "punchy flood". The beamshots I saw strongly suggest that there is good throw in these mods, which is great. But I would still need to see some of these in person in order to really feel confident that I would like the beam geometry.

I've wondered the same thing and the first optional emitter that comes to my mind is the XP-E rather than its larger successor the XP-G.

 

[js]

After getting my first LS20 a few days ago I would agree that one should keep at least one of them in their stock form. It looks and handles just so nice.

However, the cool tint is barely acceptable at day time and totally not acceptable in the dark. It is quite clear to me and have been sciantifically proven that, the low is the illumination the warmer should be the tint for the best subjective perception. Speaking of an LS20, this pertains mostly to the low flood mode.

So, unfortunately for my wallet, I will need a second LS20 to be sent to FeFabricata for one of his mods.

I just recently acquired a McGizmo Sapphire. I ordered a Sapphire 25, which has the same LED as the low flood LED's in the LunaSol. I agonized over the 25 or the GS for a while, but from the beamshots I wasn't convinced to go with the GS, and I already had experience with the 310DS, so that's what I ordered. Don, however, figured I must have meant the GS because it has a nicer tint on a white wall and a few more lumens and so that's what he sent me. I was like, hmm, OK, well maybe this is for the best. And I used it for a week or so, then I was like, nope, no way. Despite the lower CCT of the light, I felt that the COLOR RENDERING of the 310DS was better. Or at least it was to my eyes. So I sent my Sapphire back for a LE swap and now have the 25, and I am definitely happier with this cooler illumination, in this particular case.

So, I don't think you can say, as a general rule that the lower the illumination the warmer should be the tint for best perception. And I certainly don't know of any scientific studies that prove this to be the case, but please do provide links or information. I'm quite curious to read such studies or experiments and what the parameters were, etc.

Part of the complicating issue here is color rendering. It used to be accepted as a definition that a black body (i.e. incandescent) radiator had a color rendering index of 100 for that particular correlated color temperature (CCT). So, a glowing piece of iron freshly removed from the black smith forge has, according to this, by definition, a color rendering index of 100. Perfect. But it has almost zero spectral energy in any visible frequencies beyond dull red! Looking at something with a lot of blues and greens--say one of Monet's Water Lilies paintings--with a glowing piece of hot iron would NOT (subjectively or otherwise) give a very good rendering of the object in question! Even the very first "white" 5 mm LED's, which were horribly blotch blue with an aweful CRI, would be better light sources with which to view pretty much anything.

So, "warmer" and "cooler" need to be put into context and need to have their CRI's specified. And since the standard definition of CRI is only for a given CCT, things get complicated.

In recognition of this, several alternate definitions of color rendering have been proposed that incorporate CCT into the equations, as it were. One of the proposals (GAI = Gamut Area Index) doesn't require an "ideal" light source, such as a black body radiator, at all, and instead uses the spectral power density information of the source itself, which is then graphed onto a color gamut chart and an index is calculated. The greater the gamut area, the greater the score. Unlike CRI, GAI can be over 100, but viewers find such light sources to be unnatural and oversaturated, according to researchers. There are also a number of other proposals out there. Here's one link for GAI: Lighting Research Center experiment blog post.

Anyway, point is that I am rather suspicious of the statement that it is scientifically proven that the lower the illumination level the lower the CCT for best subjective viewing. At the very least, I think more information and context is required!

But I'd certainly love to hear more! Please provide links or information if possible.

If anyone reading this wants to know more about color rendering, I will say that I am in the middle of (and stalled on) a lot of research on the subject which I hope to present in a review thread on Don's Sundrop, which uses a Nichia 083B which is a high CRI and high CCT LED. Won't be until next year, for sure, though. One of my employees got injured and is out until after Thanksgiving, so we are very shorthanded here at work and I am pulling a lot of shifts myself to cover things.

Anyway . . . all of that said, I can certainly understand why someone might find the high CCT LED's of the LS20 to be less than ideal. Personally, while I do find that my Sundrop and High CRI Haiku do indeed have superior light coming from their emitters, I also have no issues using the LS20's high and low beams. Despite the high CCT, I find the LunaSol to do a pretty decent job of color rendering. I'd guess it is about an 80. Just a guess, though.

Thanks for your post.

 

[DucS2R]

Wow, a flash from the past. I love my LunaSol 20 and bought it many years ago. Still keep it on my nightstand because I love the trit glow. But I don't really use it much, have a bunch of more modern McG's, HDS, etc. But every now and then I take it out to remember what a cool little light it really is. Would never mod mine, I would rather keep it and buy something else that is more state if the art.

 

[kaichu dento]

It is quite clear to me and have been sciantifically proven that, the low is the illumination the warmer should be the tint for the best subjective perception.

There is no scientific evidence that I'm aware of but I will say that my personal preference on low level floody beams tilts towards cooler is better and as a beam gets narrower and higher in output, the warmer I like them to be.

As to whether or not to mod an LS20, I was pretty tempted to make mine more of a light I'd like to carry, but like many of you, couldn't bring myself to have such a sweeping redesign of the light that I already enjoy playing with so much and at this moment it is still stock, which is pretty damn good!

 

[ma tumba]

Jim, Kaichu, you may want to take a look, for instance, at this paper which provides the reference to the original research paper of Kruithof published back in 1941.
http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac/wn/wn21/wn21-3/wn21-308.html

There is also a number of much more recent vision research papers on this subject. You can find some by googling e.g. "color temperature museum illumination"

Jim, I would love to read your review of the Sundrop/083. In my personal classification, this is the best (forgive my English) "close quarters inspection light". It is always on my table and when I need to carfully inspect an object from less than, say, 1 meter, I would always grab the Sundrop.

 

[magellan]

Just saw this thread.

Yeah, I love my LS20. It was my first high end custom so it would be hard to sell it. It was the beginning of the addiction.

 

[kaichu dento]

Jim, Kaichu, you may want to take a look, for instance, at this paper which provides the reference to the original research paper of Kruithof published back in 1941.
http://cool.conservation-us.org/waac/wn/wn21/wn21-3/wn21-308.html

There is also a number of much more recent vision research papers on this subject. You can find some by googling e.g. "color temperature museum illumination"

Thanks for the link, and while inapplicable for me, not to mention containing lots of information I've already learned at work and through other reading over the years, very interesting still.

The problem with applying rationale for permanent installation display lighting for a museum to small handheld single point light source is that they so different from the outset and my preference for cooler tints at lower levels, particularly when coupled with a floody beam pattern, and gradually warmer tints as output rises and gets more focused is also a research of sorts, although not funded nor published and you may be surprised if you allowed yourself to try it out and see if you don't agree.

I originally came from the perspective that warmer was always better, with the sole exception of workspace lighting (bench, shop, kitchen), and tried to make all my lights meet the incandescent standard as closely as possible.

Regardless of what any study shows we all will find our own preferences and those will most always be superior choices to broadly applied recommendations of others in completely different situations and with a differing set of needs.

 

[ma tumba]

Back to the topic. I think that my doubts whether I would like my LS20 moded to LS20.X or not, come from the fact that the PD is so great because of its simplicity. As soon as you start adding modes you transform a beautifully simple light to a gadget.

I just got one of Tana's SingLEDs incorporating the new lucidrv firmware. This drop-in is a revelation to me in terms of its unusual beam (more on this elsewhere) but it also has 2 programmable banks of levels. So I now have a light which I can switch to a "home" bank with 2 useful low levels and an "outdoor" bank with 2 useful bright level.

I think that if similar drivers (2 ea) could be incorporated into an LS20, so the owner could have programmable banks for the flood and for the beam, then the LS20 could become truly ultimate tool.

 

[js]

ma tumba,

I totally agree about the Sundrop, and I like your term for it! "Close quarters inspection light" is a great description of its best use, in my opinion, and this is exactly how I use it myself. Don's 083B LED's were the very best bin of those Nichia LED's available and are simply amazing light emitters.

OK, so, thank you so much for the link, and it's interesting because I was actually going to specify in my response above that ambient light preference is indeed correlated to the ambient light intensity, especially when that lighting is overhead lighting. And this is exactly what this research is talking about. It's why candlelight is so pleasing and why many expensive restaurants have dimmer incandescent lighting as well as candles at every table. It's pleasant. The light itself, the mood, the atmosphere of the place, etc.--that is definitely better warmer when the lighting is dim.

However . . . this is not the same as color rendering and whether or not people can get the best representation (or "rendering") of something like a painting. And this is explicitly excepted and admitted in the article:

Kruithof's curve describes the general experience of light as pleasant or unpleasant. This quality deals with general or ambient conditions. Although quality of ambiance is important, Kruithof's work provides no information on how color temperature affects the observer's perception of specific colors and color relationships. A review of the technological literature does not provide adequate answers to questions about the impact of color temperature on visual perception.

(emphasis mine).

And, it is also of significant note that the further experiments yielded a preferred CCT for viewing paintings in a museum of 3700 K. (Incidentally, I actually owned one of the SoLux lamps at one point--used it in a mag mod. It was wild! Had a reflector that was glass or quartz or something with a coating that let a lot of the red and IR pass through it--hence the higher CCT). This is interesting to me because it is a very high CCT compared to all incandescent sources that are readily available. Many custom incan mods have this high of a CCT, but almost no halogen incan lighting is this hot--the filament life is very short here! 3200 K is about as hot as commercially available incan sources go.

The point is that in 1941, all artificial sources were much lower CCT even than this. So there is indeed a disparity between preferred ambient in-place lighting (mood or atmosphere) and dedicated task lights, such as the lights museums and art galleries use to illuminate single paintings.

The other point is that these experiments were all for blackbody sources. LED's are decidedly NOT blackbody sources, and their spectral curves look very different. I think the reason why I personally preferred the higher CCT 310DS over the GS LED in my Sapphire was because while the tint of the light on a white wall was "warmer" -- i.e. more yellowy -- the spectral curve was even more divergent from a black body curve because of it. The higher CCT 310 DS was probably actually closer to a blackbody curve (albeit one with a much higher CCT!). But I'm just guessing.

What I can tell you is that recent experiments done involving black body vs. non-black body sources have shown a number of problems with the non-black body sources. Most recently the film industry has had to deal with this issue and there are articles on it. The non-black body curves can render very saturated colors with a lot of POP, but they seem "unnatural" to viewers. Or such is what I've read in my researches so far.

But it's all very interesting. I certainly agree that ambient lighting is better warmer when dimmer, and I also agree that for viewing something like artwork a high CCT incandescent source is best. It used to be as high as you could get (3200 K). My brother-in-law is an artist and knows a lot of gallery owners and year ago I talked with one of them about light sources, and he was pretty much like "halogen". Period. Nothing else came close at the time. That was like 8-10 years ago or something, though. And I'm sure if he could have had 3700 K halogen he would have preferred that to 3200 K.

Thanks for the link!

 

[RedLED]

This is a beautifully written thread, and a great amount of reference material here.

Question for you, Mr. JS: covered are short to medium throw, flood and aspects of utility, however, not longer throw, and a level of blinding light for use in defense. I have larger lights that serve well in this function, just not in a McGizmo. Well, I do have the Ti VME with an M31 Malkoff, and it puts out, don't hold me to this, 260 lumens. Nice, but I want more.

What I am going after would be about 500 lumens with more Lux. Living in the vast empty openness of the desert, a thrower is very handy. I understand the size, and I would only expect to use this EDC when I do not have one of the larger throwers available, so this would be used in short time frames, just when needed.

Do you have any thoughts on how this could be accomplished. I have XPG and an XML Haiku's and I can light a Palm tree up faintly 300 feet away on our property, enough to see if someone is there, but not much more, and the XML covers about 15,000 Sq feet in the yard -- not bad at all. I just want something like the SF Fury puts out in my Haiku.

Also, a bright flashlight has saved me several times from all the crumbs and goofs you run in to at night, and as always I have expensive photo gear, like an $11,000 400 2.8 AFS, VR, or 600 f4 AFS VR, and several $8,000 D4 Nikon bodies, it seems, with me barking commands and the light it just holds them in place so I can make a plan to exit. I like this as flashlights are non lethal, for now in California - even legal (Give them time in Sacramento and Cops will have light meters issued)!

I cover H'wood, Washington, DC, and NYC. I need a bright-blind-them light!


Thank you,

Best wishes,

RL

 

[js]

RL,

Thanks for your kind words!

I am definitely not the person to ask for advice on which lights would be best for such and such. I am way out of the loop on new stuff. I use a SF M6 with MN15 X-LOLA installed for outdoor throw. But if I had a lot of expendable funds sitting around, I would be very curious about a McGizmo Makai as a thrower. And also an HID light. But since I don't have a lot of funds sitting around and since my SF M6 works quite well enough for now and for my very occasional use, I'm set for now.

Thanks for your post!

 

[RedLED]

Thank you, JS.