Tesla's gigafactory dropping 18650's and going with 20700 - per Elon Musk

[Enderman]

More about the BMZ battery pack using 21700 cells:
So, this Sony/BMZ 21700 cell has 60% more capacity and 400% more discharge current than a 18650 cell. Sounds like a big upgrade to me.

This is simply due to better manufacturing and battery improvements, there is nothing magical about the 21700 size.
It's just a size between 18650 and 26650.
If they used this improved manufacturing for 18650 or 26650 cells you would also see more capacity and higher discharge.

 

[kreisl]

There is talk about a new Li-ion cell format with dimensions of 20700, 21700 and 22700. Meanwhile, Tesla, Panasonic and Samsung have decided on the 21700 for ease of manufacturing, optimal capacity and other benefits. While the 18650 has a volume of 66cm3​ with a capacity of around 3000mAh, the 97cm3​ volume of the 2170(0) is said to produce a capacity of up to 6000mAh, essentially doubling the capacity with a 50% increase in volume. Tesla Motor refers to their company's new 2170 as the "highest energy density cell that is also the cheapest."

a quote from BatteryUniversity.com book chapter.

interesting.

Also check out episode S01E03 of Good Behavior ... kinda tricky to find a refueling station

 

[lumen aeternum]

Great video, over 7000 18650 cells in the car power pack, But will we CPF ever see the improvements in battery capacity that Tesla make or will it be a guarded secret, now they are making their own 20700 cells in the US.
John.

So how long is it going to take the typical CPFer to dis-assemble and test a used car power pack in order to cull out the good cells?

Maybe make a group purchase and share the cell packs?

 

[SubLGT]

... there is nothing magical about the 21700 size.
It's just a size between 18650 and 26650...

Is the 18650 size magical?

 

[fivemega]

Is the 18650 size magical?

There are many flashlights, other devices and universal holders currently made and available for this size.
It will take several years for them to switch to new size if they find any significant improvement and lower cost.

 

[SubLGT]

Production of 21700 cells has begun today, at the Gigafactory.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/battery-cell-production-begins-gigafactory

 

[vadimax]

Is the 18650 size magical?

Yes. Because of huge market of 1" gun mounts.

 

[vadimax]

What battery format did he show?

 

[moozooh]

As per http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ure-demonstrates-powerful-ev-despite-setbacks:

The battery cells are supplied by LG Chemical and use the forward-looking 21700 cells (as opposed to the more common 18650 cell), which Faraday Future said it expects to have the highest energy density of any in the auto industry.

I think at this point we can safely assume that in less than a year 21700 will become the de facto standard for EVs.

Yes. Because of huge market of 1" gun mounts.

1" = 25.4 mm, which is still 4.4 mm wider. If a flashlight manufacturer opts to use a 21700 cell in a flashlight intended for potential gun mounting, I expect they take that into account and avoid bloating the battery tube. It's doable.

 

[StandardBattery]

As per http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ure-demonstrates-powerful-ev-despite-setbacks:



I think at this point we can safely assume that in less than a year 21700 will become the de facto standard for EVs.
...

Yup, and that means the cells will also migrate to other industrial uses.

Maybe a new 21350 cell will eventually appear as the 18350 didn't make many inroads. A 21350 I'm sure would be a very nice cell format for flashlights.

 

[vadimax]

1" = 25.4 mm, which is still 4.4 mm wider. If a flashlight manufacturer opts to use a 21700 cell in a flashlight intended for potential gun mounting, I expect they take that into account and avoid bloating the battery tube. It's doable.

It is not Having only 4.4 mm we should reserve 1 mm for protected/rewrapped cells. After that only 1.7 mm of wall thickness is left for knurling, threaded connection. Who on Earth would mount a light which body is foil thin and may be crushed with fingers?

 

[moozooh]

It is not Having only 4.4 mm we should reserve 1 mm for protected/rewrapped cells. After that only 1.7 mm of wall thickness is left for knurling, threaded connection. Who on Earth would mount a light which body is foil thin and may be crushed with fingers?

You're reasoning under the erroneous assumption that a 1" flashlight mount requires the entire battery tube, including the cap, to be 1" thick. This is simply not the case—only the small part that goes into the mount has that requirement. For the record, 1.7 mm is still a thicker wall than a typical laser scope has (last I checked). Some manufacturers of tactical flashlights also make their own mounts, so it's not a big deal either way.

 

[Kirbz252]

Tesla released this teaser style video a few days back. Pretty cool seeing what goes into battery production.

https://www.facebook.com/tesla/videos/10154876472132801/

Look at all those shiny 2170 cells *drools*

Dave

 

[SubLGT]

Quoted from https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/news.html

June 8, 2016
NSERC, Dalhousie University and Tesla Motors have established the NSERC/Tesla Canada Industrial Research Chair that Jeff Dahn will hold from June 8, 2016 to June 7, 2021. It is possible that the Chair will be renewed in 2021. The goals of the Chair are to develop lithium ion batteries with longer lifetime, higher energy density and lower cost. As Dahn says, "Our goal is to do something useful, not publish papers in Nature and similar journals".

The last sentence made me chuckle.

So far, I have not seen any information from Tesla or Panasonic about the capacity of the 21-70 tesla cell, only the claim that it has the "highest energy density and lowest cost of any cell on the planet". The quantity of 5750mAh has been mentioned on forums, but no verification was provided.

 

[StandardBattery]

Quoted from https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/news.html



The last sentence made me chuckle.

So far, I have not seen any information from Tesla or Panasonic about the capacity of the 21-70 tesla cell, only the claim that it has the "highest energy density and lowest cost of any cell on the planet". The quantity of 5750mAh has been mentioned on forums, but no verification was provided.

That last sentence is funny. LG has been claiming the same "highest energy density" for their 21700 battery as well. No details that I have found yet. I think we can just wait to see what is the energy of the next battery-pack that Tesla announces. That might be where the 5750mAh number is coming from I have not been following it that closely. Just waiting until I can actually get some batteries, but that might be a while.

 

[Dubois]

Sorry, HKJ's review already posted

 

[carl]

https://www.imrbatteries.com/sanyo-ncr20700a-3100mah-30a-flat-top-battery/

Sanyo NCR20700A: 3100mAh, 30A, $10/unit
Sanyo NCR20700B: 4000mAh, 15A, $10/unit

 

[vadimax]

 

[SubLGT]

Samsung displayed their 21700 cell at the 2107 North American International Automobile Show, but did not provide technical details.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/09/samsung-2170-battery-cell-tesla-panasonic/

 

[SubLGT]

who wants another size

Apparently, this 20650 size is being used in a Dewalt 20V battery pack. There is also a version rated at 4200mAh and 15A.