Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

[charles is great]

How's it going with your upgrades? I have the same car and was curious about upgrading the high beams It looks like the stock bulbs are "long life", maybe because you have to unbolt the bumper to get to them? Did you do the Daniel Stern upgrade?

Otherwise I don't find the lighting too bad -- headlights are better than my 2021 Impreza, which are not great, but not as good as my 2005 Mazda 3 was, strangely.

 

[shumanchu]

It looks like the stock bulbs are "long life", maybe because you have to unbolt the bumper to get to them? Did you do the Daniel Stern upgrade?

No need to remove the front bumper, the high beams, low beams, side markers are accessible from just opening the hood, the fog lights are easily accessed by removing the fender guard in the wheel well. The rear lights are accessible via removing the tail light assembly. The only thing that requires removing the rear bumper is accessing the wiring harness to add the rear fog light assemblies and wiring harness.

I did get upgraded H7 bulbs from Dan Stern for the high and low beams. The fogs I just put regular 9006 xtreme vision by philips. The side markers got 2886x from Dan Stern. The rear turn signals are potentially good candidates for Sylvania ZEVO 1156A, but I just haven't been able to get around to trying those. I very rarely drive this vehicle at night, so the new bulbs get little use, which is good because I still have yet to find a shop with a proper headlight aiming machine. I got them in the ballpark with the wall and tape method, but I really want them to get aimed right.

The main reason I stopped pursuing the rear fog upgrade, is due to the 10 yr 100k mile warranty. The warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty. I am counting on that warranty to give me a new EV battery as I am at about 81% SOH, and expect that to drop below 70% in the next year or so. Once the warranty is expired, then I'll think about adding rear fogs.

 

[charles is great]

No need to remove the front bumper, the high beams, low beams, side markers are accessible from just opening the hood, the fog lights are easily accessed by removing the fender guard in the wheel well.

Ah I was just going by what the manual says, which in some places hasn't been updated from the gas model. I hadn't checked for myself. Might be good to just try and get better bulbs then. I have the LED turn signals that are built into the mirror, so I can't complain about those, and I don't have use for fog lights much, so low beam and high beam performance would be what I care about.

Magnuson Moss prevents your warranty from being invalidated by unrelated things, but you might need a lawyer if they try to, so it's up to you.

 

[-Virgil-]

Magnuson Moss prevents your warranty from being invalidated by unrelated things

I haven't read the full text of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (1974), but I think that is not correct, are you sure? Got a cite?

The Act does prevent the warrantor from making the warranty coverage conditional on the use of a particular brand of replacement part. So Kia couldn't legally say "You used a non-Kia turn signal light bulb (or whatever part), so your warranty is void".

 

[charles is great]

I haven't read the full text of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (1974), but I think that is not correct, are you sure? Got a cite?

The Act does prevent the warrantor from making the warranty coverage conditional on the use of a particular brand of replacement part. So Kia couldn't legally say "You used a non-Kia turn signal light bulb (or whatever part), so your warranty is void".

That's my understanding from many years of automotive forums, but, I'd always consult a lawyer before trusting internet advice

 

[Alaric Darconville]

One of the major provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name" (15 U.S.C.A. 2302).

However, in the case of "the warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty", they could argue that you did something really BAD to the system (and would have to prove it)-- but since the lighting on many hybrids is still run from the 12V electrical system (using a standard starting battery and 12V alternator). I'm not sure if the Kia EV also has a standard starting battery, but obviously the lighting system would still be 12V (and you'll still probably have a 12V "accessory socket", which is simply a renamed cigar lighter socket without the cigar lighter).

You could also always install a rear fog lamp and pull all the wires where you want them but don't hook them up permanently-- and use a cigar lighter plug to plug it in and unplug it as necessary. (Very bad UI, of course, and you'd need a telltale to be sure the lamp was really powered on and not just plugged in (like from having a blown fuse or just a loose connection).)

 

[747LeftSeat]

However, in the case of "the warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty", they could argue that you did something really BAD to the system (and would have to prove it)-- but since the lighting on many hybrids is still run from the 12V electrical system (using a standard starting battery and 12V alternator). I'm not sure if the Kia EV also has a standard starting battery, but obviously the lighting system would still be 12V (and you'll still probably have a 12V "accessory socket", which is simply a renamed cigar lighter socket without the cigar lighter).

The "have to prove it" part regarding the MM act is interesting and a commonly coined fallacy.

If you think about it, who would they have to prove anything to? Certainly not the vehicle owner standing at the service counter yelling "prove it". It would have to be proven in court, at the initial time and expense of the vehicle owner. Meanwhile, the vehicle owner either ponies up for the repair up front so as to have a functional vehicle during possible legal proceedings or waits for a court case to be resolved while having a non functional vehicle. And even then the vehicle owner may not win the court case. Automakers have deep pockets and all the time in the world.

I have a friend who is a service manager for a Honda dealer and he has been "told" several times by customers to prove the customers' mods caused issues thereby denying warranty from Honda. He basically tells the customer that there will be no warranty coverage and that the customer's remedy is the courts. The MM act is effectively useless for the consumer in situations like this.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

He basically tells the customer that there will be no warranty coverage and that the customer's remedy is the courts. The MM act is effectively useless for the consumer in situations like this.

Well, no-- it's working as designed. The plaintiff (customer) believes their rights under the Act were violated, so if they can't talk sense into the service manager or whoever, then they go to the courts. This is how it is with plenty of other laws. This is why there are courts. This is also why you shouldn't agree to "non-binding arbitration", although such clauses don't always protect the corporation that got people to sign them.

But this is the CandlePowerForums, not the ArmchairLawyerForums. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act discussion ends now as that is not the topic.

 

[shumanchu]

Hello, it has been a while. Turns out it is not easy to get Kia to replace an EV battery under warranty if there are no certified EV dealers in your area. Anyways, they did end up towing to an authorized EV dealer, replacing the battery, and towing it back. So now that my Soul EV has a fresh battery (with the updated battery chemistry from the 2018+ models, yipee!), I can resume the pursuit of rear fog lights.

I ordered the Zevo 1156 Red Leds, in anticipation of sourcing cheap OEM rear fog modules, and because they were on sale at walmart for 10 bucks. I noticed that the Amber and White 1156 Zevos say "for off road use only" on the front of the blister pack, but the Red ones only say "For Red Lenses". Are the Red Zevo's somehow exempt from having to state that they are for off road use?

 

[-Virgil-]

No, there's no exemption, but keep in mind we're talking about the company that has also labelled Zevo 1157 bulbs "For vehicle interior usage only". Now give me a minute so I can list all the vehicles that take an 1157 somewhere in the interior...don't press me, I'm sure I can think of one...um...

(it's known as lying)

 

[shumanchu]

So it turns out that putting the Zevo 1156A bulbs in the rear turn locations actually does cause the flash rate to increase. What's weird is that if I turn on the emergency flashers, they both flash at the normal rate. If I use the turn signal though, they will flash two times at the normal rate then speed up to the "bulb out" rate. Bummer too, because the Zevos actually work well in that particular reflector in the Soul EV. Guess I'll be going back to the regular incandescent 1156As that were in there. I don't want to mess around with load resistors.

 

[-Virgil-]

So it turns out that putting the Zevo 1156A bulbs in the rear turn locations actually does cause the flash rate to increase.

Totally normal.

What's weird is that if I turn on the emergency flashers, they both flash at the normal rate.

Also totally normal.

Guess I'll be going back to the regular incandescent 1156As that were in there. I don't want to mess around with load resistors.

It's smart to avoid violating the wiring with load resistors. You could check around and see if there's a trailer-tow mode that can be enabled somehow on your Soul. Adding a trailer changes the turn signal load, which would cause the hyperflashing effect. In the past, this was handled by using a "heavy duty" flasher, the same non-load-sensitive kind used as original equipment for the hazard flashers. When the flasher's function was moved into the body control module, there started to be other ways of cancelling the hyperflash when towing a trailer...such as a software switch, or plugging a trailer into the vehicle's connector (or making the vehicle think a trailer was plugged into its connector).

 

[Alaric Darconville]

When the flasher's function was moved into the body control module, there started to be other ways of cancelling the hyperflash when towing a trailer...such as a software switch, or plugging a trailer into the vehicle's connector (or making the vehicle think a trailer was plugged into its connector).

And so you MIGHT luck out and it might work similarly to a headphone jack, in which plugging in headphones (even if it's just the phono plug without headphones on it) that switches the speakers off on your radio or TV. Or it's smarter than that and detects something connected.

 

[Lumalux]

Because it would have been too expensive, complicated and difficult to come up with (and keep up with) a whole bunch of different flashers to accommodate all the possible combinations of tow vehicle and trailer turn signals as far as power draw is concerned. It's an imperfect solution for our imperfect world.

In the '80s, when Ford was still using Wagner thermal flashers in its full-size vehicles, their optional towing packages included an extra relay to run the trailer lights without adding a lot of load to the flasher circuit. You could sit in the rear of the Country Squire and Colony Park wagons and hear the relay clicking with the turn signals. Whatever minimal extra load there was from the relay was compensated for by using fixed load flashers with slightly higher load ratings (323 -> 325, 224 -> 228). Not sure how they wired their vehicles once they started using electro-mechanical flashers.