Energizer AA Lithium

[bubbatime]

Dave, what methodology are you using to come to the conclusion that new in package batteries are at 0-60% charge?

 

[DaveTheDude]

I used a ZTS Pulse Load tester. I initially thought the tester's batteries might be depleted, so I replaced them with freshly charged Envelopes. Same result. I also thought that the underperforming cells might be experiencing passivation effects, so I ran one on a "medium" drain setting in a Jetbeam AA light for 30 minutes. Same result.

Suggestions for further testing will be gratefully welcomed.

 

[michaex]

Thanks @DaveTheDude now my costco blister will be treated with caution rather than a 20 year insurance...

 

[hsa]

It would be helpful to me if you could check resting voltage with a DMM on a battery that the ZTS declares 60%.
Thank you.

 

[DaveTheDude]

The cell's measured voltage is 1.5v, but that's without any load. That noted, the cell's voltage isn't the source of my annoyance, rather it's the cells' diminished capacity so early in its life cycle that is my objection. The AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium cells will maintain their voltage for almost the entire life of the cell. My objection is that lifespan appears to be substantially shorter than advertised.

(As an aside, the ZTS emulates a cell under load, which in the absence of a more sophisticated analysis and custom resistance setting on a DMM, yields a pretty close assessment of the cell's remaining capacity for useful work.) My two cents...

 

[chillinn]

the cells have been in 70 degree F. climate controlled storage the entire time.

What else can you tell us about the storage space? Is it possible the cells could have gotten wet or that there could have been periods of high Relative Humidity above 50%RH?

I just did a quick check, and I am surprised to discover that the average in Ohio is 71.5%RH. I can't believe that. It's higher than Virginia, and I compare Virginia humidity to Florida. But Ohio's average is even higher than Florida! I've spent time in NE Ohio, and it seemed dryer to me than W. Pa, yet the average %RH in Ohio is higher than every state that borders it other than Michigan.

 

[DaveTheDude]

All of the cells have been stored unopened and in climate controlled storage (i.e. - my bedroom clothes closet). I'm pretty sure my central A/C and heat have kept the humidity at a level that would preclude draining the capacity from half of the cells. Humidity also doesn't explain how 10 of the 20 cells in the blister pack remain at 100% capacity (and at 1.7v). Also, the Energizer data sheet for these cells states the standard storage temperature is 21C/70F.

 

[this_is_nascar]

The cell's measured voltage is 1.5v, but that's without any load. That noted, the cell's voltage isn't the source of my annoyance, rather it's the cells' diminished capacity so early in its life cycle that is my objection. The AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium cells will maintain their voltage for almost the entire life of the cell. My objection is that lifespan appears to be substantially shorter than advertised.

(As an aside, the ZTS emulates a cell under load, which in the absence of a more sophisticated analysis and custom resistance setting on a DMM, yields a pretty close assessment of the cell's remaining capacity for useful work.) My two cents...

Those batteries should be 1.7 volts or higher right out of the package. That's how the E2's used to be anyway.

 

[this_is_nascar]

The cell's measured voltage is 1.5v, but that's without any load. That noted, the cell's voltage isn't the source of my annoyance, rather it's the cells' diminished capacity so early in its life cycle that is my objection. The AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium cells will maintain their voltage for almost the entire life of the cell. My objection is that lifespan appears to be substantially shorter than advertised.

(As an aside, the ZTS emulates a cell under load, which in the absence of a more sophisticated analysis and custom resistance setting on a DMM, yields a pretty close assessment of the cell's remaining capacity for useful work.) My two cents...

I think I still have some packaged E2's that I should probably put on the volt meter for the heck of it.

 

[chillinn]

Humidity also doesn't explain how 10 of the 20 cells in the blister pack remain at 100% capacity (and at 1.7v).

Just fyi, 1.7V is definitely not 100% capacity. 1.95V - 1.8V is considered full. But Energizer had more than one L91 marketed. Ultimate Lithium are the premium label, and I always assumed those were chosen as the best out of batches. The other label didn't include "Ultimate" in blue, but I forget the name, possibly "Plus" written in pink, and though listed as the same capacity, they are slightly less expensive, and I always assumed they were rejected for the "Ultimate" moniker, sold at discount, because the SoC was all over the place and they sucked. Maybe they cancelled those because I can't find an example.

Also, a lot of folks may stow their used laundry in their closet for a few days. That ever happen to you? If, say, a wet towel landed on half the cells, or near them, even sealed up like a drum in their pack (those packs are not air or water tight), that could explain it. Also, if someone was dusting with something like Windex or whatever and half the pack got sprayed inadvertently and not wiped, sat there until it evaporated, maybe that could do it.

But I really think the most likely culprit is humidity. Your closet is an enclosed space. You really have an air vent and air return in there? I have seen it both ways, but usually home builders don't want to spend the extra money to heat and air condition their closets. And just because some cells didn't lose as much capacity doesn't mean that's exactly what would happen.

And of course it is also possible all of this happened before you bought the cells when you have no history of their treatment. How do you know they weren't dislodged off the shelf by someone mopping, fell into the bucket, pulled out, wiped off, placed back on the shelf 6 months before you innocently wandered in and bought them?

But because these cells are widely known to hold capacity a long time, and that is not only Energizer's insistence, it is pretty much everyones' experience (albeit anecdotal, so too is your story), I think it is slightly more likely than not something happened to those cells rather than half of them failed.

At any rate, it is mildly anomalous, but who the heck knows? Maybe half of all L91 are dogs. Maybe Energizer had a bad batch. Maybe someone used them, carefully resealed the package, rappelled into the warehouse at night and placed them back on the shelf, or merely unscrupulously returned them used, and they were restocked.

The unknown is what happened before you bought them, if anything, and while you weren't diligently staring at them while they were in your possession. You should be more responsible! Just kidding.

But I would recommend next time opening the package when new and checking the SoC immediately. I'm not even sure how you resisted doing that, but L91 excite me because I can't afford them, so maybe I'm a little something.

 

[hsa]

@DaveTheDude. Thanks for checking that and it confirms that they are partially depleted. That is sad to hear if there are going to be problems with this normally robust battery. I just checked mine, purchased in Sep. of '19' with expiration 2039 and they are at 1.81.
One should not have to be any more meticulous than you were with the storage. I will be watching reviews to see if problems show up.
Thanks again.

 

[chillinn]

One should not have to be any more meticulous than you were with the storage.

I hope that was not stated in reaction to any perception that I have blamed the victim. But it is technically a hasty generalization to assume the cells failed absent some event that caused their discharge, or that it is an accurate sample of all or most L91.

Perhaps it would be exceptional to check the SoC before storing, but it's the only way one would know for certain exactly what was stored. And I didn't invent that, I picked that habit up from CPF.

My expectation is Energizer will replace them, though they probably won't make it effortless.

 

[hsa]

I agree. I will check the SoC on all of them I get in the future but I often do that on any battery. (habit)

 

[chillinn]

Within the first days of my reading and asking questions on CPF when I joined, I was very quickly given two pieces of information that took me a couple or few years to realize were absolutely true, which is that the finest incandescent EDC flashlights are Surefire incan E, and that learning about flashlights and being able to evaluate them necessarily means learning about batteries and taking good care of them. The latter seemed droll to me and not my interest in the least. I balked at the former because of their prices, which have increased considerably since. But it happened that I became convinced of both, and upon realization I felt a bit foolish that I didn't take that advice at face value immediately.

 

[DaveTheDude]

Here's an update that might help shed some light on the unexpected malperformance of some (but not all) Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA cells.

All of my underperforming cells were made in Singapore. In the process of checking my other AA and AAA Bunny-Brand Lithium cells (out of an abundance of concern for the utility of my backup battery stocks), I measured and pulse-loaded various other batches, with expiration dates of 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. I found that ALL of the cells made in the USA maintained both voltage and capacity, regardless of the year manufactured, including USA manufactured cells with birthdays as early as 2010.

At this point in the story my tentative hypothesis is that only the cells made in Singapore are suspect. To be fair, the diminished capacity issue may be a one-off consequence of a non-recurring manufacturing glitch, so I'll reserve judgment until the evidence is in, pending Energizer's response to my complaint.

But since it appears for the moment that fully half of the cells manufactured in Singapore in 2019 tested at 40% capacity or less after just four years in protected storage, your own Singapore-origin Bunny cells may also be suspect as to long-term performance. (The cells' country of origin is printed on the cell wrapper, along with the manufacture date, and the advertised expiration date. Some of the cells made in the USA between 2011 and 2014 may not have the manufacture date printed on the cell, but it's my understanding that Energizer has since standardized its practices and imprints the cells' birthday on the wrapper.)

If your cells show they were made in the USA, you can probably rely on their continued excellent performance. But I'll be checking the country of origin a whole lot more closely from now on.

 

[ampdude]

Just for reference I have used Duracell CR123A's made in the 90's recently that still worked fine. I have some Surefire CR123A's that expired around 2010, same deal. Probably still 85% or more of original capacity on both. I've even had ancient alkalines that worked fine, but I tend to think they made them a lot better back then, than they do now.

 

[this_is_nascar]

Just fyi, 1.7V is definitely not 100% capacity. 1.95V - 1.8V is considered full. But Energizer had more than one L91 marketed. Ultimate Lithium are the premium label, and I always assumed those were chosen as the best out of batches. The other label didn't include "Ultimate" in blue, but I forget the name, possibly "Plus" written in pink, and though listed as the same capacity, they are slightly less expensive, and I always assumed they were rejected for the "Ultimate" moniker, sold at discount, because the SoC was all over the place and they sucked. Maybe they cancelled those because I can't find an example.

Also, a lot of folks may stow their used laundry in their closet for a few days. That ever happen to you? If, say, a wet towel landed on half the cells, or near them, even sealed up like a drum in their pack (those packs are not air or water tight), that could explain it. Also, if someone was dusting with something like Windex or whatever and half the pack got sprayed inadvertently and not wiped, sat there until it evaporated, maybe that could do it.

But I really think the most likely culprit is humidity. Your closet is an enclosed space. You really have an air vent and air return in there? I have seen it both ways, but usually home builders don't want to spend the extra money to heat and air condition their closets. And just because some cells didn't lose as much capacity doesn't mean that's exactly what would happen.

And of course it is also possible all of this happened before you bought the cells when you have no history of their treatment. How do you know they weren't dislodged off the shelf by someone mopping, fell into the bucket, pulled out, wiped off, placed back on the shelf 6 months before you innocently wandered in and bought them?

But because these cells are widely known to hold capacity a long time, and that is not only Energizer's insistence, it is pretty much everyones' experience (albeit anecdotal, so too is your story), I think it is slightly more likely than not something happened to those cells rather than half of them failed.

At any rate, it is mildly anomalous, but who the heck knows? Maybe half of all L91 are dogs. Maybe Energizer had a bad batch. Maybe someone used them, carefully resealed the package, rappelled into the warehouse at night and placed them back on the shelf, or merely unscrupulously returned them used, and they were restocked.

The unknown is what happened before you bought them, if anything, and while you weren't diligently staring at them while they were in your possession. You should be more responsible! Just kidding.

But I would recommend next time opening the package when new and checking the SoC immediately. I'm not even sure how you resisted doing that, but L91 excite me because I can't afford them, so maybe I'm a little something.

I've used Energizer E2 lithiums from the day they were released, until the day they ceased being made under that name. I've never seen one at 1.9v, ever. Maybe the newer branded ones are different.

 

[chillinn]

All of my underperforming cells were made in Singapore.

That does seem reasonable, even without knowing the SoC when purchased. At least there's a reason to walk back "50% failure rate."

I've used Energizer E2 lithiums from the day they were released, until the day they ceased being made under that name. I've never seen one at 1.9v, ever. Maybe the newer branded ones are different.

I've never used E2, but I have seen many Ultimate Lithium (over the years, I don't get them too often) at 1.95V and, though rarer, even as high as 1.98V. Though far more often they are below 1.89V.

 

[sbj]

......But since it appears for the moment that fully half of the cells manufactured in Singapore in 2019 tested at 40% capacity or less after just four years in protected storage, your own Singapore-origin Bunny cells may also be suspect as to long-term performance. .........

Have you ever checked your tester against a real discharge?
For the cells where the tester only shows 40%, I would discharge one or two cells with a charger with a discharge function at 0.5A.

Just to check the 40% against.

 

[this_is_nascar]

That does seem reasonable, even without knowing the SoC when purchased. At least there's a reason to walk back "50% failure rate."


I've never used E2, but I have seen many Ultimate Lithium (over the years, I don't get them too often) at 1.95V and, though rarer, even as high as 1.98V. Though far more often they are below 1.89V.

Wow. I'll have to get a pack and check it out.