This from Elzetta.
4500k is about the same as gen 2 👍
4500k is about the same as gen 2 👍
Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.
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kj2
Flashaholic
Anyone here with the A113 gen.3, with the 800lumens burst? Which RCR are you using?
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thermal guy
Flashaholic
I use fenix protected 16340's
Why not the Elzetta batteries?
Just curious
Just curious
thermal guy
Flashaholic
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
Glad you reminded me. This remains an outstanding 'puzzlement' for me, TBD when I get time. It's already on my to-do list.
In their Alpha Gen3 description, they use this phrase when describing the maximum specified performance characteristics / behavior of the light:
"When using a high drain IMR RCR123 cell,..."
On that web page that is linked to the 16340 they sell (which I'm sure is a quality one and fine for their G light(?), however I see no indication in the description of that cell that it is in fact a "high drain" &/or "IMR" cell. I may be missing something, but...
There is ambiguity there which needs to be resolved. When I get a spare moment or two, I'll try to grab a current measurement on my light, as I've never seen anyone reference a number for that. That should allow us to better resolve the ambiguity. In my experience, numbers are almost always better than adjectives in electronics
As a result of said ambiguity (solely), I use INR / IMR "high-drain" cells in mine for now. It is something I'm not wild about due to my general /default preference for cells with safety circuits ('protected'), and more significantly the light's (apparent?) lack of a LVW (Low Voltage Warning) feature, which itself remains my sole complaint about design of the Gen3 the light. The positives of the rest of the light have outweighed that single negative for me personally however, and I just live with that and use 'best practices' to avoid over-discharge situations - at least until I resolve this outstanding question.
In sync w/ @thermal guy's response, if I do end up using protected 16340s, given my lengthy personal experience and positive results with them (and most of the lights I routinely use are 1x16340 lights), I'll be using the current Fenix 16340 cells, because they are a proven 'known' to me, and I have some on hand already. I would also have high confidence in the ones Elzetta sells, I only lack the experience with them.
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
Glad you reminded me. This remains an outstanding 'puzzlement' for me, TBD when I get time. It's already on my to-do list.
In their Alpha Gen3 description, they use this phrase when describing the maximum specified performance characteristics / behavior of the light:
"When using a high drain IMR RCR123 cell,..."
On that web page that is linked to the 16340 they sell (which I'm sure is a quality one and fine for their G light(?), however I see no indication in the description of that cell that it is in fact a "high drain" &/or "IMR" cell. I may be missing something, but...
There is ambiguity there which needs to be resolved. When I get a spare moment or two, I'll try to grab a current measurement on my light, as I've never seen anyone reference a number for that. That should allow us to better resolve the ambiguity. In my experience, numbers are almost always better than adjectives in electronics
As a result of said ambiguity (solely), I use INR / IMR "high-drain" cells in mine for now. It is something I'm not wild about due to my general /default preference for cells with safety circuits ('protected'), and more significantly the light's (apparent?) lack of a LVW (Low Voltage Warning) feature, which itself remains my sole complaint about design of the Gen3 the light. The positives of the rest of the light have outweighed that single negative for me personally however, and I just live with that and use 'best practices' to avoid over-discharge situations - at least until I resolve this outstanding question.
In sync w/ @thermal guy's response, if I do end up using protected 16340s, given my lengthy personal experience and positive results with them (and most of the lights I routinely use are 1x16340 lights), I'll be using the current Fenix 16340 cells, because they are a proven 'known' to me, and I have some on hand already. I would also have high confidence in the ones Elzetta sells, I only lack the experience with them.
Measuring the current draw of the Alpha Gen3 is a little tedious, due to the fact that things are not static at any point during the measurement period (initial "burst mode" operation), and furthermore 2 variables are in play. The voltage of the 'fully charged' test cell is experiencing an initial decline, and the output control algorithm of the light is decreasing the output of the light (and thus the E x I [power] required to drive the light), simultaneously during the initial operating time when the measurements are taken. The only way to describe it adequately would be to plot the voltage and current on a graph, overlayed on top of the lumen output / time graph of the light. I can't do all that with what's in my kitchen
Bottom line based on my observations: Using a '3.6/3.7' V 'INR', 'unprotected' 16340 which can supply the light with all it wants to eat, the maximum current I'm seeing the light draw during this test is just under 2.5 A. With a safe rounding, I'm gonna call it 2.5A.
The current model Fenix cells I referred to above (ARB-L16-700UP) are you would expect 'protected' cells, have a rated capacity of 700 mAH, and to quote the specs:
- Max discharging current: 2.5A
- Heavy Load Discharge: 3.5C high rate discharge; 2.5A stable output
This does not address the aforementioned "ambiguity" in the light's documentation, but should provide all that's needed to select an appropriate cell for this light. Regarding the 16340 which Elzetta sells, I'm unable to find any rating for 'max continuous output current) either in Amps, or a 'C'-based rating, so I cannot speak to its appropriateness for use in this version of the Alpha. Based on that lack of information, I would not use them (or recommend their use) in the Alpha Gen3 specifically.
Dicaeopolis
Enlightened
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- Nov 19, 2017
- Messages
- 275
What about 16340 Efest IMR16340 V2 700mAh High Discharge Button Top?
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
By coincidence, I just happen to have those in stock, and use / have used them for several years - usually in lights where length is critical and (most) 'protected' cells aren't a good fit (EagTac D25C is one that comes to mind). I just checked and their discharge current rating(s) don't seem to be marked on the wrapper (which isn't great), but while I did not buy them here, they are listed on this site with a 'max continuous discharging current' of 7A.
16340 Efest IMR16340 V2 700mAh High Discharge Button Top
[EFEST IMR16340 700V1] 16340 Efest IMR16340 V2 700 High Discharge Button Top
www.illumn.com
I thought I recalled them being rated at either 5 or 7A, so that's probably correct. Based on my positive experience with them, and that rating, they should work quite well in an Alpha Gen3 - IF you're OK with their being 'unprotected' cells. That part's up to you (it seems to be highly subjective around here), but they should work fine in the light, with headroom to spare!
I can't do all that with what's in my kitchen
and yet here you are after all of that in your kitchen... stating that...
Elzetta doesn't know an acceptable battery for it's own light.
rich, too rich!!!
kj2
Flashaholic
Thanks for the replies. Have four AW 16340 batteries laying around. According this review ( https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AW 16340 ICR123 750mAh (Black) 2016 UK.html ) they should be able to handle 4A. That should be enough right?
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
Perhaps, but not sure. These notations from lygte give me reason to have some reservations about answering 'yes' to that, so I guess I'd have to say I'm uncertain on that one for now. Questionable. I'd prefer to see something that can provide 2.5A during initial max output 'burst' phase, and probably something like 1.5 during much of the rest of the run time, although I didn't test long enough to verify that last number because I was only trying to check the max requirement. The Gen3 light (specifically) might not be too happy with that cell. I'd recommend going with something capable of more output. I'm not seeing that "4A" reference you mentioned at the URL, but maybe I'm missing something.
"Official specifications:
- Capacity: 750 mAh
- Nominal voltage: 3.7V
- Maximum current: 1A
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, I'm trying not to 'rush to judgement', but in the absence of proper documentation, I think there might be an issue using that cell w/ Alpha Gen3. I said I 'prefer numbers to adjectives', and although I can sometimes get by with either, I'm not getting either one on that 16340 cell, so that's just not good enough. 'Neither' isn't an acceptable option.
What I suspect could have happened is that some 'website weeny' saw that 16340 cell associated w/ the G-series 16340 light, then when the Alpha was updated for 16340 support w/ the Gen3, might have ignorantly assumed it was OK to 'link' that cell w/ the new Alpha when it became 16340 compatible. Web weenies will do anything. I recommend anyone wanting to use that Elzetta cell w/ the Gen3 contact Elzetta Support before doing so and ask some specific questions to someone qualified.
kj2
Flashaholic
PCB Protection is at 4.4A according the overview. But the test only did a max discharge of 3A.
Elzetta wrote me; "It can be as much as 2.8 amps for the Alpha. You would need an RCR that is capable of at least 5 amps". But why need a minimal 5A battery if it max pull is 2.8A?
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
- First, the overcurrent protection trip point is largely irrelevant to what we're discussing here.
- Second, the info in the latter part of my post #4354 was not typed by me. It is a direct copy/paste from the lygte test you linked to. I'll paste it here again for clarity:
- Capacity: 750 mAh
- Nominal voltage: 3.7V
- Maximum current: 1A
That is a very, very good question, and I do not have a good answer. To up-rate the recommended cell current capability to a number ~200% of the values either I measured or they have stated as the maximum current draw of the light is something I don't know the basis for doing. I'd be very interested in knowing the reason for that recommendation. That would be an extremely conservative and up-rated spec from the nominal values, and I don't know why that would be the case. Perhaps Elzetta knows of a situation / circumstance beyond those in my testing which would justify what is (IMO and based on the facts I'm aware of) that level of overkill. I'm hoping someone can provide an explanation for their doing that. Anyone?
kj2
Flashaholic
Found these at NKON. Should be able to handle up to 4A.
kj2
Flashaholic
Custom duties + VAT paid, so should arrive within a week
aznsx
Flashlight Enthusiast
Custom duties + VAT paid, so should arrive within a week
So you don't yet have an Alpha Gen3, but have one on order? I'd assumed you already had one. In that case, congrats on buying a great light. In either case, I think those Nitecore cells you mentioned in your earlier post may make a very good choice for that light, given it appears they can deliver the required current, and include safety ('protection') circuit as well. I may order some of those myself!
