10440 for Olight i3T 2?

[Galane]

I bought an Olight i3T 2 (in black to be an EDC light) with the intent of using a 10440 in it. The i3T 2 is officially supporting use of the higher voltage 10440 but the company says to use a protected cell no longer than 44mm.

Olight doesn't sell such a cell, nor do they have any recommendations.

So I'm asking for recommendations here for a 44mm long protected 10440 cell.

For charging I have one of the no longer available from Olight magnetic universal single cell chargers. It's a nifty gizmo. I used it to revive a Li-Ion battery for a power pruner. It wouldn't charge so I opened it up and found the cell voltages were very uneven, apparently beyond the ability of the very nice looking BMS board to address. I hit each cell individually with the charger for about 10 seconds, put the battery back together and it charged normally.

 

[DoctorMemory]

There seems to be two 10440 cell types being sold. One is a 44mm long plus the thickness of the protector, and this is most common. There are protected cells that are 44mm long that were meant to be that way, not a protector slapped on to a 44mm cell.

Advice; if you want a protected cell that fits, email one of the big battery shops you like, ask them. Some brnds change from batch to batch. And perhaps the best advice -- don't use a protected cell. 10440, perhaps 350 mAh? About one watt-hour? The cell's internal resistance is protection.

 

[aznsx]

I bought an Olight i3T 2 (in black to be an EDC light) with the intent of using a 10440 in it. The i3T 2 is officially supporting use of the higher voltage 10440 but the company says to use a protected cell no longer than 44mm.

Olight doesn't sell such a cell, nor do they have any recommendations.

Great;-( So the manufacturer is recommending a cell that's probably somewhere between a red herring and a unicorn.

(note to self re: Olight).

Where's one of those infamous "proprietary cells" people love to scream about when you actually need one?;-)

 

[aznsx]

I used it to revive a Li-Ion battery for a power pruner. It wouldn't charge so I opened it up and found the cell voltages were very uneven, apparently beyond the ability of the very nice looking BMS board to address. I hit each cell individually with the charger for about 10 seconds, put the battery back together and it charged normally.

I just re-read this post to check something and it freaked me out a little. I am absolutely no cell/battery expert, and there are likely users here who've 'forgotten more than I know', so I'm hoping one of them will help me out here...

Based on my own admitted lack of expertise on the subject matter, this procedure sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

Can someone who understands multi-cell lithium-ion battery packs tell me if it's 'OK' to do this?

Thanks.

 

[Galane]

I just re-read this post to check something and it freaked me out a little. I am absolutely no cell/battery expert, and there are likely users here who've 'forgotten more than I know', so I'm hoping one of them will help me out here...

Based on my own admitted lack of expertise on the subject matter, this procedure sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

Can someone who understands multi-cell lithium-ion battery packs tell me if it's 'OK' to do this?

Thanks.

The BMS board looks like it manages every cell individually, but the variance between cells was apparently too much for its safety settings. Hasn't been any problems charging or using it normally since.

The charger I used does automatic polarity and voltage sensing and adjustment. Put a 1.2V NiMH or a 3.7V Li-Ion between its magnetic contacts, plug the other end into a USB charger and it charges it.

I don't know if it will work with NiCd or 1.6V NiZn cells.

 

[JimIslander]

Why not run an unprotected 10440 and recharge it when it dims? Could it actually harm the light? Certainly AAA have no protection.

 

[Galane]

Why not run an unprotected 10440 and recharge it when it dims? Could it actually harm the light? Certainly AAA have no protection.

Olight has been very careful on lithium battery safety since a person got himself killed using unapproved A123 cells in one of their dual cell flashlights. He was holding it in his mouth when it exploded. Most likely he mixed a nearly dead one with a new or fully charged cell.

The company quickly discontinued all their dual cell lights with user replaceable cells. All their lights going forward with user replaceable cells have been single cell in proprietary protected configuration, with some models able to use single primary cells or non-lithium rechargeable. Multi cell lights either have them not removable or in a proprietary package like the large Javelot series where the whole handle with cells inside is unscreweed and swapped for quick 'recharge'. The 2xAAA i3 Plus and 2xAA i5 Plus are recent breaks from that.

Many people had been trying unprotected 10440 Li-Ion in their i3T. Some handled it fine, some fried. One thing Olight does well is pay attention to their customers. Seeing the demand for a tiny 1xAAA light with a bit more lumens they released the i3T 2 with 10440 support *but* also with the caveat only a protected cell no longer than 44mm be used.

I assume an unprotected 10440 could be used but also assume the i3T 2 does not have built in over-discharge protection. That would complicate using it with an Alkaline or NiMH cell.

 

[aznsx]

As a side note, it appears that Olight's policy of recommending the use of only protected cells in their li-ion powered lights(?) (and generally selling only protected cells), as far as I can tell, is very much in line with the policies of Surefire, Maglite, Streamlight, Malkoff, Fenix, Nitecore, Acebeam, .....................

Most (not all) of those are also PLATO members, therefore all their advertised specs are also (per Fl-1) obtained / tested using the type of cells provided with / recommended for a given light.

The only thing I see unusual about this case is the recommendation of a type of cell not even sold by the manufacturer. That said, it's not the first time Olight has surprised me.

 

[Monocrom]

Olight has been very careful on lithium battery safety since a person got himself killed using unapproved A123 cells in one of their dual cell flashlights. He was holding it in his mouth when it exploded. Most likely he mixed a nearly dead one with a new or fully charged cell.

The company quickly discontinued all their dual cell lights with user replaceable cells....

Can't blame Olight one bit for the new policy. All it takes is one careless individual to ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[JimIslander]

Olight has been very careful on lithium battery safety since a person got himself killed using unapproved A123 cells in one of their dual cell flashlights. He was holding it in his mouth when it exploded. Most likely he mixed a nearly dead one with a new or fully charged cell.

The company quickly discontinued all their dual cell lights with user replaceable cells. All their lights going forward with user replaceable cells have been single cell in proprietary protected configuration, with some models able to use single primary cells or non-lithium rechargeable. Multi cell lights either have them not removable or in a proprietary package like the large Javelot series where the whole handle with cells inside is unscreweed and swapped for quick 'recharge'. The 2xAAA i3 Plus and 2xAA i5 Plus are recent breaks from that.

Many people had been trying unprotected 10440 Li-Ion in their i3T. Some handled it fine, some fried. One thing Olight does well is pay attention to their customers. Seeing the demand for a tiny 1xAAA light with a bit more lumens they released the i3T 2 with 10440 support *but* also with the caveat only a protected cell no longer than 44mm be used.

I assume an unprotected 10440 could be used but also assume the i3T 2 does not have built in over-discharge protection. That would complicate using it with an Alkaline or NiMH cell.

Am I missing something about the i3T 2? Is it a 2 cell light? How can low voltage harm a single cell light?

 

[bluflaam777]

Why would there be undervoltage protection if it weren't needed? Undervoltage on most electronics is/can be harmful in various ways. It would depend on the piece. Overheating is my first thought, and we all know heat kills. 'buck', 'boost', 'direct drive' will respond differently to low voltage.

It isn't always about how the cell responds but how the whole piece responds.

 

[jon_slider]

with the caveat only a protected cell no longer than 44mm be used.

I agree there are no protected 10440 that are 44mm long.

How can low voltage harm a single cell light?

It is not about harming the light. LVP protects the Battery from being overdischarged.

The danger of Overdischarging a LiIon battery, is during recharging. The battery can overheat, and vent with fire.

There Are 10440 batteries with built in LVP, but they are longer than 44mm, so might not allow the Olight to close far enough for the battery tube to make contact. In which case the light will not turn on.

For example, here is a protected 10440 that is 46.25mm long.

However, imo it makes little sense to use 10440 instead of AAA primaries. Because of excess heat generated by the higher voltage output of LiIon.

I recommend using AAA in the Olight i3T, either Eneloop, or Ultimate Lithium. Or if you choose to use Alkaline, be aware that they can leak if stored in a light long term. The leakage can produce residue that prevents the light from working, or worse, the residue can bond the battery inside the battery tube, thereby making the light garbage.

 

[Galane]

Am I missing something about the i3T 2? Is it a 2 cell light? How can low voltage harm a single cell light?

The i3T 2 is simply the i3T guaranteed to not be fried by a 10440 li-ion cell, and it'll kick out a bit more brightness.

The i3T Plus is the 2xAAA version of the 1xAAA i3T.

A circuit designed to not discharge a il-ion cell too far would be difficult to design to also work with Alkaline cells that are always at a voltage below the level where il-ion gets damaged. It's the battery cell at risk, not the light.

 

[JimIslander]

The i3T 2 is simply the i3T guaranteed to not be fried by a 10440 li-ion cell, and it'll kick out a bit more brightness.

The i3T Plus is the 2xAAA version of the 1xAAA i3T.

A circuit designed to not discharge a il-ion cell too far would be difficult to design to also work with Alkaline cells that are always at a voltage below the level where il-ion gets damaged. It's the battery cell at risk, not the light.

Exactly. For many of us, this is not a problem.

 

[jon_slider]

For many of us, this is not a problem.

I agree an alert operator can use an unprotected battery as long as the operator has the presence of mind to stop using the battery before it gets overdischarged. Such as by recharging when the light gets noticeably dim.

The few times I have ended up with an overdischarged unprotected battery in an unprotected light, was when the light got left on accidentally, while I was asleep. I was not an alert operator ;-)

I make a habit of checking battery voltage manually on a multi meter, before recharging. When I saw the voltage was less than 2.5V, I knew it was not safe to recharge, so I took the battery to the recycling bin at Home Depot.

 

[aznsx]

A circuit designed to not discharge a il-ion cell too far would be difficult to design to also work with Alkaline cells that are always at a voltage below the level where il-ion gets damaged.

Some flashlights are designed to detect / determine installed cell type by sampling voltage at cell installation or flashlight power-on. In the case of a CR123A primary / 16340 Li-ion light, if that voltage is =/> 'X' volts, a 'lithium ion bit' is set in the hardware which enables Low Voltage Detection, and enables those related functions in the light (output reductions / stepdowns, notification flashes, ultimately shutdown, etc.) If the voltage is below the threshold, that bit is not set, and those features are not enabled. It's not a particularly difficult thing to do, and has been done for at least a decade AFAIK (at least in some Fenix lights I have/use), and I believe perhaps others. This is apparently 'no big deal' in a quality light from a manufacturer who chooses to implement such function, so if one cares about such things, shop wisely. As is the case with many features, I'm sure not all manufacturers care enough to do it.

My Fenix RC-09 is one example of a light with such an implementation:

*************************************************************************************************************
Low-voltage Warning Function

When the voltage level drops below the preset level, the flashlight is programmed to downshift to a lower brightness level. When this happens in Low output mode, the flashlight blinks three times every five minutes to remind you to charge the light or replace the battery. To ensure normal use, the flashlight will not turn off automatically and will work until the over-discharge function stops the battery from working.

Note: This only works on 16340 rechargeable Li-ion battery. When the voltage of 16340 battery is detected lower than 3V, low-voltage warning function will fail if the flashlight is turned on again.

*************************************************************************************************************

This is a CR123A / 16340 example. Is there some reason why this design would not also be applicable for an alkaline / Li-ion light?

 

[jon_slider]

Is there some reason why this design would not also be applicable for an alkaline / Li-ion light?

In most older design lights, including Fenix, the LVP function is provided by the battery, not the driver.

For example, this Fenix comes with a Protected 18650. It can also use two CR123a.

The following comment by Fenix, is talking about Low Voltage Warning in the driver. There is no actual LiIon shutoff protection in the Driver, so it would be a mistake to use UnProtected LiIon:

When the voltage level drops below the preset level, the flashlight is programmed to downshift to a lower brightness level. When this happens in Low output mode, the flashlight blinks three times every five minutes to remind you to charge the light or replace the battery.

This next comment from Fenix, is talking about LVP in the Protected battery (not in the driver):

> To ensure normal use, the flashlight will not turn off automatically and will work until the over-discharge function stops the battery from working.

In regards to AA/14500 lights, some require Protected 14500, for example, that is the case with the Lumintop Tool AA, and also the Skilhunt E2a. Neither of those models have LVP built into the driver.

otoh, there are indeed some AA/14500 lights that Do have LVP in the driver, not the battery. For example the Emisar D3AA. That driver is so intelligent, that it even has LVP in the driver, to prevent overdischarging of rechargeable AA Eneloop.

whether of not a driver has LVP built in, varies widely by manufacturer, they even vary by model from the same manufacturer.. For example, Skilhunt AA/14500 models H150 and M150, Do have LVP for LiIon, built into the driver. Curiously enough, those lights ship with Protected 14500 batteries. Even though the driver does have LVP for 14500. (fwiw Protected and UnProtected 14500 are the same length, unlike 18650 cells)

its a mixed bag, and each individual light model needs to be assessed separately, to fully know if the light requires Protected batteries or not.

One of the few CR123a/16340 lights that has an actual Voltage detection circuit, that enables or disables LVP in the driver, is the HDS. This is not typical.

Zebralight 18650 lights Do have LVP built into the driver, and they specifically Require UnProtected batteries. Zebras can not physically accomodate Protected 18650. Because Protected 18650 are 6mm longer than UnProtected 18650, the tailcap wont close far enough to make contact with the end of the body tube. This was a design decision by Zebra, in order to prioritize using the shortest possible overall length of the body tube. Zebras pride themselves on being compact.

 

[DoctorMemory]

I bought an Olight i3T 2 (in black to be an EDC light) with the intent of using a 10440 in it. The i3T 2 is officially supporting use of the higher voltage 10440 but the company says to use a protected cell no longer than 44mm.

Olight doesn't sell such a cell, nor do they have any recommendations.

So I'm asking for recommendations here for a 44mm long protected 10440 cell.

For charging I have one of the no longer available from Olight magnetic universal single cell chargers. It's a nifty gizmo. I used it to revive a Li-Ion battery for a power pruner. It wouldn't charge so I opened it up and found the cell voltages were very uneven, apparently beyond the ability of the very nice looking BMS board to address. I hit each cell individually with the charger for about 10 seconds, put the battery back together and it charged normally.

I'm not so sure you would benefit from a 10440. True, the circuit designed for 1.5V input could do some fancy bucking and boosting to get all that energy out of the 10440. Or it might just throw away the extra (3.7-1.5) 2.2 volts as heat.

Since the mAh on the 10440 are far less than a 1.5V AA alkaline cell, you might get a hot light that runs out sooner.

 

[Galane]

Olight says it does 200 lumens with a 1.5V AA and 300 with a 10440.

Features

• Excellent Capacity: The i3T 2 comes with an included AAA battery, but you can also use a 10440 Li-ion battery with PCB protection (max length 44 mm), which can boost the maximum output up to 300 lumens.
• Brand New Clip: The clip on the i3T 2 is now stuck between the battery cover and the body -- never worry about falling off and it allows for deeper pocket carry.
• Start At Your Preferred Mode: Both soft and heavy activation can be set default mode by simple operation, making it more obey to your will.
• More Backup With Lower Temp: Compared with the i3T, this 2nd generation gets 31% more battery life, and 71% more runtime in High mode. We optimized the circuit to ensure its surface temperature less than 113*F even during long-time work.