120v BA15D LED replacements

wws944

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I have some fairly highly used bathroom fixtures that use 50 watt BA15D xenon lamps. Since this is a 120v application, LED replacements seem few and far between. This is the closest thing that I have found:

http://www.normanlamps.com/product_info.php/cPath/83_85_533_534/products_id/5935

Not sure how to interpret their specs. (E.g., how to convert MSCP into lumens?) I am sure it is nowhere near as bright as the 50 watt halogen bulb, but how different is it?

Has anyone else found a BA15D solution? In my fixtures, the lamps could be an inch or so longer without causing any clearance problems. So I have some flexibility.
 

wws944

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Not sure how to interpret their specs. (E.g., how to convert MSCP into lumens?) I am sure it is nowhere near as bright as the 50 watt halogen bulb, but how different is it?

Looks like to convert from MSCP to lumens you simply multiply by 4*Pi. So assuming that in the stated 25,000 MSCP that the comma is a decimal point, that would give: 25*4*22/7 or 314 lumens. That seems fairly bright...
 

LEDninja

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I have a chandelier base 21 LED bulb similar to the one in the link. It is about the same brightness as another bulb rated at 80 lumens. Makes a great NIGHTLIGHT for my midnight bathroom trips.
Not familiar with xenon bulb ratings but you will need ~800 lumens per bulb. No go.

21LED-vs-2W-brightness-1.jpg

auto-nitelite.jpg


The plastic case protecting the LEDs (real purpose to prevent you from sticking your fingers in there and electrocuting yourself) is a dead giveaway the bulb is not too bright (traps heat and kills the LED.)

-

Just curious.
How did you manage to get a fixture that does not use standard North American E26 A19 bulbs?
 

wws944

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I have a chandelier base 21 LED bulb similar to the one in the link. It is about the same brightness as another bulb rated at 80 lumens. Makes a great NIGHTLIGHT for my midnight bathroom trips.

Definitely too dim then. Thank you for the photos!

Just curious.
How did you manage to get a fixture that does not use standard North American E26 A19 bulbs?

My wife picked them out.

(Google: George Kovacs P5044. She got ours from Lamps Plus a few years ago.)
 

wws944

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Update: I finally found some 120v BA15D LED bulbs that are bright! Got them from a Chinese ebay vendor. They claim 300 lumens at 3000-3500K, and draw 3.2-3.5 watts. Each one has 30 LEDs in it. (Search ebay for "ba15d led 110" to see the listings.)

Each of my bathroom fixtures takes three of the bulbs. I used the Light Meter app in my phone to measure light output. With the xenon bulbs, on the countertop next to the mirror, Light Meter recorded 160 lux, and at the edge of the countertop, 130 lux. Using the LED bulbs, it measured 360ish lux and 400ish lux. (The Light Meter app doesn't damp the readings very well...) Pretty good for a 15x difference in power usage!

One interesting note: Thanks to Title 24 here in California, each fixture is on a vacancy sensor switch that turns the light off after a few minutes. It leaks a small amount of current through the bulbs as part of how it operates. Normally there is no light from the fixture when it is turned off, but the LED bulbs are so efficient that there is a bit of light. Under 1 lux. So I will call it a built-in night light. :) Hopefully this doesn't harm the bulbs.

As a side note, the 'energy efficient' lights, that were required by Title 24 in each of our baths, are the CFL lights in Panasonic bathroom fans. There are two 18 watt CFL bulbs in each fan. Since I have replaced these, and also the shower lights, with LED, our original 'energy efficient' lights are now the 'energy hogs'.
 
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bubbas45

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I'm curious how you like these bulbs after having had them for almost two months now. I unfortunately bought 6 BA15D lamps years ago. I had no idea how uncommon the bulbs were, or how expensive.

LEDs would be nice to have, but the current xelogen bulbs are rate about 750 lumens.

Alternatively, I see there are many types of adapters available so you can use different bulb types in a BA15D fixture, so maybe I'll look into that as well.

bws
 

wws944

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I'm curious how you like these bulbs after having had them for almost two months now. I unfortunately bought 6 BA15D lamps years ago. I had no idea how uncommon the bulbs were, or how expensive.

We have four fixtures, with three lamps in each. One in each of two smaller bathrooms, and two in our master bath. They are really neat looking, modernist, fixtures. And they do produce beautiful light with the xenon bulbs.

LEDs would be nice to have, but the current xelogen bulbs are rate about 750 lumens.

I was worried about the lumen rating situation too. That is why I used the Light Meter app in my cell phone to try and quantify any differences.

Alternatively, I see there are many types of adapters available so you can use different bulb types in a BA15D fixture, so maybe I'll look into that as well.

I thought about this approach, and also some homebrew approaches. But the ebay BA15D lamps showed up and I decided to give them a try.

So far I am reasonably happy with the LED versions. They aren't perfect. For example, the light source is offset a bit from where light would be emitted in the xenon bulb. The spacing between the lamps therefore is a little wierd when you really look at it. But the fixtures we have didn't position the bulbs evenly even with the xenon bulbs. So it is a case of a little wierd becoming a little wierder.

Light color-wise, I ordered the "warm white" version (advertised 3000-3500K), as opposed to the "white" (6000-6500K) version. Even then, they are still just a tad cooler than the xenon bulbs.

Brightness-wise, I published the results from the Light Meter app on my Android phone. Have not seen any degradation in two months. (Just tested again this morning on one of the fixtures that is probably used an hour a day.) It suprised me that the lux level that Light Meter reported was higher with the LED version than the xenon version. I am thinking the color spectrum is different and is 'tickling' the light sensor in the phone differently. As noted above, Light Meter also seems sensitive to some pulsing due, no doubt, to limitations in the built-in power supply. (I see the same thing with the Philips LED GU10s that I have in another room.)

My advise is to order one or two to try out. They are only $6 each. (The xenon bulbs were costing me $10/each at the local lamp shop...) If you like them, the same ebay vendor offers a discount for quantities in multiples of 10. Here is their current ad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-BA15D-110-120V-Warm-White-lamp-30-5050-SMD-LED-bulb-light-With-cover-BA30B-1-/170908531263?pt=Lamps_US&hash=item27caf13a3f

If you do decide to try one, please report back. It is always fun to compare impressions!
 
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bubbas45

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Light color-wise, I ordered the "warm white" version (advertised 3000-3500K), as opposed to the "white" (6000-6500K) version. Even then, they are still just a tad cooler than the xenon bulbs.
...
If you do decide to try one, please report back. It is always fun to compare impressions!

I got a couple of these LED bulbs the other day. We have two fixtures over the kitchen sink, so I replaced one of the bulbs for a side by side comparison. Subjectively, the LED seems bright enough for that application. I did not compare them at night, so I can say "bright enough" without being sure how much difference there is between them.

The color temp is another story. The LED bulb appears much cooler to my eyes, and more importantly, to my wife's eyes. I was just going to take a picture of them side by side when the xelogen bulb blew. What are the chances of that?

Now with two LEDs installed, we know that the color temp is just too cool for us. I'm glad I bought them though; it was a cheap experiment and I learned something.

We are planning to build an off-grid house in the next couple of years, so LEDs could be quite useful to us, but they will have to be warmer these.

Now to look for BA15D bulbs that are warmer for these two fixtures. If anyone has a suggestion, I'd be glad to hear it.

By the by, these are the first LEDs I've bought other than for flashlights. These bulbs look dorky when they are off, but very cool--I mean :cool: cool, not temp cool--when they are on. not that you'd be looking at them directly. They're just neat.

bws
 

wws944

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...The color temp is another story. The LED bulb appears much cooler to my eyes, and more importantly, to my wife's eyes. I was just going to take a picture of them side by side when the xelogen bulb blew. What are the chances of that?

Now with two LEDs installed, we know that the color temp is just too cool for us. I'm glad I bought them though; it was a cheap experiment and I learned something.

My wife really didn't have any concerns about color temp. But in our case they are in bathrooms, and there are other lights (e.g., Cree CR6 LED, and Panasonic fan/light combo with CFLs) to blend in with them. So for the factor of 15 difference in energy usage, I am keeping them in.

We are planning to build an off-grid house in the next couple of years, so LEDs could be quite useful to us, but they will have to be warmer these.

Now to look for BA15D bulbs that are warmer for these two fixtures. If anyone has a suggestion, I'd be glad to hear it.

If you find some, I'd be interested too.

By the by, these are the first LEDs I've bought other than for flashlights. These bulbs look dorky when they are off, but very cool--I mean :cool: cool, not temp cool--when they are on. not that you'd be looking at them directly. They're just neat.

Don't give up on LEDs based on these. There are some really fine LED products in the market, and prices are getting more reasonable every day. I have converted most of my house to LEDs. About 65 so far, still have another 25-30 to go. Monthly power bill has dropped quite a bit. In the case of the Cree CR6, we actually prefer their color temp/spectrum over the BR lamps they replaced - even though both are rated at 2700K. I have started replacing some of my recessed CFL lights with the CR6 too.
 

Illum

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I started with the same predicament, what I eventually ended up was buying Feit Electric "Eternalite" Single LED nightlights, clipping out the angry blue 5mm LEDs, install a 1-1/2" aluminum L angle cut 1/4" wide and mounting a CREE XPG NW in the forward pointing position. the Capacitor fed full wave circuit puts out 3.5V at 25mA, surprisingly bright with the XP-G, I'd say around 15 lumens. The heat output is so little that 10mm star boards and a dab of superglue is all that's needed. So far my modded ones have ran for over a year now and just as bright. The circuit is non-isolated so keep the transparent shell around the LED after everything's seated in place.

I had tried Nichia 219s, but at this drive current they're not the best candidates.
 

wws944

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Update after about nine years. Two of the corn-style LED bulbs I bought back then have failed over the past year or so. So I just bought a 5-pack of "BA15D-2835-64LED" bulbs from an eBay seller for like $16. Though advertised as "warm white" with a color temp of "3000-3500K", same as my old ones, the new ones definitely have a warmer temp. Brightness about the same. Because of the difference in color temp, I simply swapped all three bulbs in the fixture and will keep the old working one as a spare for when one of the other fixtures needs it.

The new bulbs are quite a bit smaller than the old ones - perhaps almost the same form factor as the original xenon bulbs. The eBay ad lists them as compatible with some sewing machines. So the size probably matters a lot more in that context.

Because Science, I do want to measure the actual power draw of old vs new bulbs.
 
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