13V Rattlesnake or SF with Turbo-head?

[BoomerSooner]

I'm considering buying a Wolf Eyes Rattlesnake, 13V version. I'm also considering adding a Turbo-head w/ MN16 to my 2 x 17670 9P. I'm curious to the difference in size of the reflector/head/bezel between the following three: Rattlesnake, standard 9P, and SF Turbo-head.

Does anyone have a Pic of a WE Rattlesnake next to a SF 9P, 6P, etc; and possibly a SF TH too?

Also, does anyone have any insight on the difference in light output and beam characteristics between a SF TH and the Rattlesnake.

Here are specs...I just am not sure of what to expect out of the end of them? I'm wanting to throw a ton of light a pretty decent distance.

Cell configuration: 2x17670
SF MN16: 20W, 330 - 175 lumen in 31 minutes
SF 9P with 1 cell extender

Cell Configuration: 3x18650
LF EO-13: 25.5W, 480 - 284 lumen in 36 minutes
Rattlesnake 13V

I could also add two more extenders, 1 more 17670 and go this route as well.

Cell Configuration: 3x17670
SF MN61: 32W, 728 - 435 lumen in 27 minutes (bulb life very short, but incredible)
LF HO-M6R: 23W, 503 - 336 lumen in 41 minutes (best drop-in solution available for this config)
SF 9P with 3 one cell extenders and TH

 

[mdocod]

My understanding is that the SF turbo heads quite a bit larger. 2.5 inches on the outside diameter I believe. Compared to about 1.77 inches on the Wolf Eyes style turbo heads. As I understand it, you could expect a WolF-Eyes Turbo to actually slip into a pocket a little easier, but I'd have to assume that the Larger Surefire heads provide a more intense focusing effect. Just by looking at various pictures of these online (on PTS and Surefire.com) it's pretty apparent that the *head* on the Rattlesnake isn't as girthy as a SF turbo, which looks downright ridiculous on a little CR123 tube..

I see you are definitely looking at the "heavy hitters" of the tactical arena... But keep in mind that many people have mentioned that a 6xCR123 length configuration (3x18650, 3x17670, etc) feels too long and awkward, making tail-switch operation difficult, as the weight of the front has a lot of leverage over your wrist... The Wolf-Eyes M300 Lion looks like the solution to that problem, with a length that a coat pocket will swallow, and a girth supporting 3 18650s. Only trouble there is, it appears to use it's own proprietary bulb, I was hoping they would build it around a standard D36, but I don't think that's the case...

I see a KT2 over in BST for about $60.... inside of the budget of a rattlesnake I think there's almost room for a 2x18650 leefbody body to run a MN16 or EO-M3T. The rattlesnake would be a hair brighter with the EO-13, but I think the leef-bodied SF with the MN16 or EO-M3T might have similar throwing power even though it has less overall lumens...

 

[sysadmn]

IIRC, the M100 has the 2.5" bezel vs. the M90's 1.77" (45mm). You can also buy an M90 or M100 bezel to fit the other (M100/M90) body. The M100 also does not have extenders listed.

Let us know what you decide - I'm trying to figure this out as well!

 

[mdocod]

M100 would be great if there were more options available for it. As it stand now, it's a 2 trick pony. 9V or 12V lamp, 2x18650 or 4xCR123, with no significant upgrades available... Accept maybe slapping a LRB-150 extender on it and running the 12V lamp on 3x18500s. Which would certainly be bright, but bulb life would be less than ideal for a dependable tool.

 

[DM51]

Don't rule out using the Rattlesnake and EO-13 with 3 x 18500s instead of 3 x 18650s. It is a neater size, IMO. You need the short half-cell '150' extender for this, instead of the long 2-cell '168' one.

 

[Glen C]

Boomer sooner,
Just for accuracy, you had misquoted Mdcods figures in your first post, where you have 3 x 18650, it is actually 3 x 18500 in Mdocod's post.

Here are the 3 x 18650 figures from his post:

Cell Configuration: 3x18650

Bulb Options:
WE D36 13V: 18W, 354 - 237 lumen in 81 minutes
LF HO-13: 17W, 325 - 218 lumen in 89 minutes
LF EO-13: 25.5W, 525 - 350 lumen in 54 minutes

Body Options:
Wolf-Eyes M90 series RattleSnake +LRB168 extender +++




The 18650 is generally around 2200mah with the 17670 generally around 1400mah. So the 17670 has onlt 2/3rds the capacity and in your first comparison you are only using 2/3rds the number, so you would expect a substantial difference. Good luck in your choices.

 

[BoomerSooner]

Thank you for catching that, I sure did. I was actually going back and forth between the two, tossing and turning each option, I ended up posting a little of each.

The 18500 option is definitely on the table.

I ran into a Fivemega offering too. Damn flashlights, I like em all. It's a sickness.

mdocod, I posted asking Mike @ PTS when they may have an optional HOLA for the M-300 but I haven't heard back yet.

 

[Glen C]

Boomer, no HOLA for the M300 yet

 

[Norm]

LF EO-13: 25.5W, 525 - 350 lumen in 54 minutes

D36 EO-13 is 700 lumen's Glen

 

[softfeel]

That is bulbs lumens, Norm. Glen is talking about lumens out of the front.

 

[LED61]

Boomer, no HOLA for the M300 yet

Glen, since you are a dealer you probably know this better than me, but I figured I´d post it anyway.

Most manufacturers don´t really like to offer a flashlight with rechargeables that will drain the batteries much faster than 1.5 C. Even at that rate, the chance the batteries would become unbalanced well before their life cycle is increased dramatically and it is potentially dangerous.

So, I think the chances are we wont see a HOLA for the M300 and if we do it would be something around 450 lumens for 50 minute runtime instead of 65 minutes at 380 lumens, but no big increase.

 

[BoomerSooner]

Maybe so?

I was hoping for an EO-13 type offering. Maybe since the batteries are not run in series you can't do that?

 

[LED61]

Maybe so?

I was hoping for an EO-13 type offering. Maybe since the batteries are not run in series you can't do that?

Boomer, please keep in mind my opinion is just that, I have nothing to do with the light aside from ordering one. I just don´t think the factory per se will make such an offering. It MIGHT be possible to get something like that aftermarket from Lumens Factory some day, and yes it could be a very powerful bulb with something like 35 minutes runtime. Also, the three 18650´s in the M300 do run in series.

 

[BoomerSooner]

No, no, no, I understand and I greatly appreciate your input. I'm asking questions, not debating.

Does the battery holder for the M300 not make the batteries act, perform, or produce any differently than if they were butted up end to end?

 

[mdocod]

the battery holder in the M300 should behave the same as 3 cells butted end to end... however... since the carrier also happens to be the main method of charging (cells in series), I would be leery of cells coming out of balance regardless of the lamp Used... Without a balancing charger, I would take the cells out and charge them on independent channel charging at least 1 in every 3 times I charged it up... As I understand though, the M90 also has a tailcap charging option... I would treat the tailcap charging on the M90 the same as the M300 and take extra precautions.

 

[BoomerSooner]

Good advice!

I have neighbor that's gotten into RC stuff pretty big lately. Dang you can spend a ton of money fast in that field. Anyway, he has to use a balancer when charging his LiPo batteries, for the reasons you just described. LiPo charging is not cheap.

 

[Glen C]

Boomer, totally agree with LED61 & mdocod. I don't think the factory will come out with, or need to, another incan option for the M300. I would guess it would be aftermarket if it happened, but I would imagine it will be some time away till volumes got up. I don't think the US even has the M300 yet.

 

[BoomerSooner]

Thanks guys!

Well, if I can't jack with it, I don't want it. LOL

Yesterday I bought one of FM's custom TL-3's that run 3 x 18500 with a 22w Axial bulb. I guess I'll wait a few days and see what it's like before I jump on a Rattlesnake or convert my 9P. A turbo head for the Surefire is sounding good though. I can play lego's with it and have pretty good versatility.

This may be a stupid question but, here goes. What is the difference between the different SF turbo heads? What makes a KT1 and KT2 different? Is it just the supplied bulb? Can I use a KT4? Do I buy an adapter from M to C body to make it work? I don't fully understand, I don't think?

 

[mdocod]

KT1 and KT2 are, for all intents and purposes, the exact same housing and reflector, and, like you said already, they just ship with different bulbs. The KT4 is slightly different in that it uses larger threads to mate with the larger threaded business ends of the M3. As it just so happens, the M3T, M4, and M6 ship with a KT4 installed. leef makes a C to M adapter that allows you to take a C style threaded body, and adapt up to an M style thread for use with a KT4 or M3 bezel....

 

[BoomerSooner]

mdocod,

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I figured but I wasn't sure since Surefire list the Heads as different model numbers. I appreciate the response.