14500 or 2 NiMH which lasts longer?

[garilla]

I have a camera which uses AA size bats, Kodak says to use AA Li primary cells or their CR-V3 3V Li primary. On NiMH I get about 30-40 pictures. If I were to use a single 14500 and a dummy cell would a get the same, less or more pictures? If more pictures would it be significant to warrant purchase of the 14500? I think the camera could take the 3.7v of the 14500

 

[VidPro]

you would get more BUT only because with only 30 pics it is probably the voltage dropping that is keeping you from getting the 100+ that you should get.

the CR-V3 comes in a rechargable version, if i have my numbers right, 2 different types, of which i have only ever seen One type.
one uses 2Xnimh in series, which would put you right back were you started.
the other using li-ion 14400 in parellel, which would be a full solution.

get the rechargable version of the correct battery, in the li-ion type, and you will be better off on all fronts.
because it is 2 parellel batteries you wont have any series issues, and can probably figure out a way to charge it properly using the same methodolgy you were going to use with the single 14500.li-ion

 

[Marduke]

What NiMH are you using? Some are better than others in cameras.

Are you charging up and letting them sit? Or 40-50 shots all at once?

Eneloops for example will maintain a higher voltage under load, giving you more shots per charge. They will also maintain their charge longer in storage, and be ready to go all the time.

 

[garilla]

I have tried eneloops and energizer 2500, both give about the same number of pics. The original primary Li CR-V3 gave me a lot of pics. The sad part is that the batteries aren't depleted they just have dropped in voltage to where the camera doesn't like it. Thanks, it looks like I'll have to buy another charger and the rechargable CR-V3 grrrrrrr. It is a Kodak Z812IS . Watch for this if you get a Kodak, or any camera, read the reviews!! I read the reviews but never thought about the battery.

 

[garilla]

Oh it just dawned on me, your saying I could recharge the rechargeable CR-V3 with a normal Li-ion charger? It probably has load balancing and that would work right?

 

[Marduke]

I have tried eneloops and energizer 2500, both give about the same number of pics. The original primary Li CR-V3 gave me a lot of pics. The sad part is that the batteries aren't depleted they just have dropped in voltage to where the camera doesn't like it. Thanks, it looks like I'll have to buy another charger and the rechargable CR-V3 grrrrrrr. It is a Kodak Z812IS . Watch for this if you get a Kodak, or any camera, read the reviews!! I read the reviews but never thought about the battery.

Energizer 2500's are utter junk.

What charger did you use for the Eneloops? If you use something like a basic Energizer charger, the charger may have quickly killed them.

 

[Benson]

The 1x14500+dummy will definitely last longer than 2 NiMH.

2x14500 in parallel would probably be about the same as a CR-V3. If you have a dead CR-V3 primary, you may be able to take the plastic casing apart, hook up two 14500 in parallel inside, and reassemble it. (I'd thought about doing this, more out of curiosity than cheapness, but I broke my digicam before my 14500 cells arrived, so the project's on hold till I get a new one.)

Obviously, just buying an RCR-V3 and adapting your 14500 charger to charge it is much easier, and probably not too horribly expensive.

 

[garilla]

I use the eneloop charger that came with the eneloops, it is the NC-MDR02NU quick charger.

 

[garilla]

Found a rechargeable CR-V3 on DX for $15 with charger or $11 bucks for the cell no charger. Some guy posted a review and he has the same camera, says it works great.

 

[VidPro]

Oh it just dawned on me, your saying I could recharge the rechargeable CR-V3 with a normal Li-ion charger? It probably has load balancing and that would work right?

yes the rechargable li-ion one, is Parelel, it would be a piece of cake for somone of (i assume) your skill to charge it on a slow normal li-ion charger.
obviously not the ni-mh one or the lithium non-rechargable one which would be a complete disaster.

we used them long ago to GET 14400 cells out to put in modified AA lights, they are very simple.

 

[Marduke]

The 1x14500+dummy will definitely last longer than 2 NiMH.

You sure about that?

14500:
3.7v x 0.750Ah = 2.775 Wh

2xAA NiMH
2.4v x 2.0Ah = 4.8Wh

 

[Benson]

You sure about that?

14500:
3.7v x 0.750Ah = 2.775 Wh

2xAA NiMH
2.4v x 2.0Ah = 4.8Wh

I'm sure -- digicams only getting 20-40 pictures off NiMHs is common, and happens because they use a low-voltage cutoff for alkalines, and shut off when the NiMH have over half of their energy left.

With a 14500, that won't happen. (Of course, the Li-ion, if unprotected, will probably be overdischarged before the camera notices anything -- this is obviously an application where the user should monitor their use and change the battery in a timely fashion. I guess I should have mentioned this limitation...)

 

[Marduke]

Well, low voltage cutoff of poorly designed electronics is an entirely different issue of "which one will last longer". In the latter half, stored energy trumps just higher voltage.

 

[Benson]

Well, low voltage cutoff of poorly designed electronics is an entirely different issue of "which one will last longer". In the latter half, stored energy trumps just higher voltage.

I'm not sure I understand -- it sounds as though you're saying that "which one will last longer" in a given piece of equipment should be answered, not with statements relevant to that application, but with generalities known to be rendered inapplicable to the specified application, just because the camera should have been designed differently?

Or are you claiming that the greater stored energy will give longer life, despite the high cutoff that prevents using most of it?

I'm certainly not claiming the OP's camera, or others exhibiting this bit of stupidity, is designed well, merely that 1 Li-ion will last longer in it.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'm not sure I understand -- it sounds as though you're saying that "which one will last longer" in a given piece of equipment should be answered, not with statements relevant to that application, but with generalities known to be rendered inapplicable to the specified application, just because the camera should have been designed differently?

Or are you claiming that the greater stored energy will give longer life, despite the high cutoff that prevents using most of it?

I'm certainly not claiming the OP's camera, or others exhibiting this bit of stupidity, is designed well, merely that 1 Li-ion will last longer in it.

What he is saying is that despite the 2 x NiMH having more stored energy than the one Li-Ion, only part of their energy can be used because under drain their starting voltage (about 1.45V/cell) drops below camera's designed minimal voltage requirement.

For example if the Kodak shuts off at 2.6V, there may still be 60% stored energy in the NiMH cells...but it can't be used. Whereas the entire 750mAh of the Li-Ion may be used because it stays at higher than 2.6V the whole time....so it may last longer. AW's protected 14500 Li-Ion cells don't cut off from protection PCB until voltage drops to 2.5V

As VidPro says, the best option is to use 2 x 14500 Li-Ion's in parallel to get 1500mAh of stored energy which will be discharged at the same voltage. Their being in parallel keeps them balanced.