190 lumen Luxeon III Released

The order has aready been shipped and they are going in my 300C AWD Hemi as bulb replacments. The blue is just to mess around with.

Shipping Method: 3-5 days
Ship Complete: Y
"Product Cart" Last Modified: 4/2/2005 Items: 3
Part # Customer Part # Description Unit Price Qty Amount
LXHL-PL09 LUXEON III EMITTER AMBER LAMB 6.5 2 $13.00
LXHL-PB09 LUXEON III EMITTER BLUE LAMB 8.5 1 $8.50
LXHL-LH3C LUXEON III STAR RD/ORG LAMB 6.95 4 $27.80

Sub Total: $49.30
 
[ QUOTE ]
Endeavour said:
They don't list specifications for white parts at 1.4A because that part isn't supposed to be driven at 1.4A. The more you overdrive the LED above its rated currents, the faster the phosphor degrades, and the faster the LED dies. One of the virtues of the LED is it's long lifespan, and by overdriving it you throw that out the window and may as well be using a fancy incandescent that you can count on replacing if you use it often enough. This part is obviously rated at 1.4A because it can withstand those currents without decreases in the lumen maintenance of the diode, the others can't.

These red Luxeon IIIs are still Luxeon IIIs. The new parts aren't available yet, and won't be for a while yet. I think, and I'll let someone else more qualified than I verify this, the reason the red parts produce so much more light at similar current levels to other LEDs is because the color red uses far less energy than any of the others (hence why you don't lose your night vision with red lighting vs. blue, white, green, etc.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Newbie, you're not challenging this statement?????
In particular, Endeavor stating,"This part is obviously rated at 1.4A because it can withstand those currents without decreases in the lumen maintenance of the diode, the others can't." Huh? Lumileds isn't claiming anything of the sort. LUMILEDS IS DOING THE BIG NO-NO. They are overdriving their LED's. At least if overdriving is meant to describe driving a led at higher currents to achieve higher lumen output at the expense of a decreased lifespan.

Funny how these forums can be. I see critical eyes seemingly always focused on certain people and or certain projects, but these same eyes seemingly skip over the details when it comes to things like, well things like these lumileds leds. This thread is a perfect example. This is from Lumileds website:
"Lumileds projects that white, green, cyan, blue, and royal blue Luxeon III products will deliver, on average, 70% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours of operation at a 700 mA forward current or 50% lumen maintenance at 20,000 hours of operation at a 1000 mA forward current. Lumileds projects that red, redorange, and amber Luxeon III products will deliver, on average 50% lumen maintenance at 20,000 hours of operation at a 1400 mA forward current." That appears to be saying that just the opposite of what Endeavor is claiming. They aren't maintaining their lifespans. They going to crash and burn prematurely. Furthermore, lumileds seems to be very cagey in the specs and test results.

I also thought somebody(Newbie??) might comment about the lack of specs for these led's when they are driven at their maximum specifations for current and junction temperature. How about it? They're letting these statements out about 100k hour lifetimes, when they know that they won't come within 50% of that figure when these things are used within Lumileds own specs. So how about it? Should we ask them for refunds in advance? How's this sound? Since an amber lux III will only live for 20k hours instead of the ballyhooed 100k, we should ask them to sell them for around lets say $2.50 a pop.

This is a ripoff isn't it? Here's the very first thing they say in their literature; "Features
Highest flux per LED family
in the world
Very long operating life (up to
100k hours)

Did I miss something? Which of the lux III's in this group has a projected 100k hour lifespan?

chasm22
 
chasm22

You missed one thing this is well known issue among forum members here and we are not illiterate.
 
[ QUOTE ]
eTendue said:
chasm22

You missed one thing this is well known issue among forum members here and we are not illiterate.

[/ QUOTE ]

eTendue,

I don't recall questioning any persons literacy. But I admit that I don't have a clue to what well known issue you are referring to. Please let me know.

chasm22
 
chasm22 said:
Endeavour said:
They don't list specifications for white parts at 1.4A because that part isn't supposed to be driven at 1.4A. The more you overdrive the LED above its rated currents, the faster the phosphor degrades, and the faster the LED dies. One of the virtues of the LED is it's long lifespan, and by overdriving it you throw that out the window and may as well be using a fancy incandescent that you can count on replacing if you use it often enough. This part is obviously rated at 1.4A because it can withstand those currents without decreases in the lumen maintenance of the diode, the others can't.

These red Luxeon IIIs are still Luxeon IIIs. The new parts aren't available yet, and won't be for a while yet. I think, and I'll let someone else more qualified than I verify this, the reason the red parts produce so much more light at similar current levels to other LEDs is because the color red uses far less energy than any of the others (hence why you don't lose your night vision with red lighting vs. blue, white, green, etc.)

Hey Newbie, you're not challenging this statement?????
In particular, Endeavor stating,"This part is obviously rated at 1.4A because it can withstand those currents without decreases in the lumen maintenance of the diode, the others can't." Huh? Lumileds isn't claiming anything of the sort. LUMILEDS IS DOING THE BIG NO-NO. They are overdriving their LED's. At least if overdriving is meant to describe driving a led at higher currents to achieve higher lumen output at the expense of a decreased lifespan.

Funny how these forums can be. I see critical eyes seemingly always focused on certain people and or certain projects, but these same eyes seemingly skip over the details when it comes to things like, well things like these lumileds leds. This thread is a perfect example. This is from Lumileds website:
"Lumileds projects that white, green, cyan, blue, and royal blue Luxeon III products will deliver, on average, 70% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours of operation at a 700 mA forward current or 50% lumen maintenance at 20,000 hours of operation at a 1000 mA forward current. Lumileds projects that red, redorange, and amber Luxeon III products will deliver, on average 50% lumen maintenance at 20,000 hours of operation at a 1400 mA forward current." That appears to be saying that just the opposite of what Endeavor is claiming. They aren't maintaining their lifespans. They going to crash and burn prematurely. Furthermore, lumileds seems to be very cagey in the specs and test results.

I also thought somebody(Newbie??) might comment about the lack of specs for these led's when they are driven at their maximum specifations for current and junction temperature. How about it? They're letting these statements out about 100k hour lifetimes, when they know that they won't come within 50% of that figure when these things are used within Lumileds own specs. So how about it? Should we ask them for refunds in advance? How's this sound? Since an amber lux III will only live for 20k hours instead of the ballyhooed 100k, we should ask them to sell them for around lets say $2.50 a pop.

This is a ripoff isn't it? Here's the very first thing they say in their literature; "Features
Highest flux per LED family
in the world
Very long operating life (up to
100k hours)

Did I miss something? Which of the lux III's in this group has a projected 100k hour lifespan?

chasm22


Yawn.

If you use the search function, I've mentioned this multiple times. I'm not being selective, just feel like a broken record at times.

There are some differences in this part which increase the output and drive current over the Luxeon I Red. Only the Red/Red-Orange/Amber parts are now rated for 1400mA.

Pay particular note to the Red/Red-Orange/Amber parts, and you'll notice the C/W is now only 6 C/W.

One of the cool charts to look at is how bad the Luxeon III Red output drops with die temperature, it tanks bad. Thats why they needed the really low thermal resistance....

Lets repeat the caveat again so everyone sees it:

"Lumileds projects that red, red-orange, and amber Luxeon III products will deliver, on average 50% lumen maintenance at 20,000 hours of operation at a 1400 mA forward current. This projection is based on constant current operation with junction temperature maintained at or below 90°C."

See page 15 for details.




You gotta love the marketing types...
 
Last edited:
chasm22 said:
I also thought somebody(Newbie??) might comment about the lack of specs for these led's when they are driven at their maximum specifations for current and junction temperature. How about it? They're letting these statements out about 100k hour lifetimes, when they know that they won't come within 50% of that figure when these things are used within Lumileds own specs. So how about it? Should we ask them for refunds in advance? How's this sound? Since an amber lux III will only live for 20k hours instead of the ballyhooed 100k, we should ask them to sell them for around lets say $2.50 a pop.

This is a ripoff isn't it? Here's the very first thing they say in their literature; "Features Highest flux per
LED family
in the world
Very long operating life (up to
100k hours)

Did I miss something? Which of the lux III's in this group has a projected 100k hour lifespan?

chasm22



I'd have to agree with your other post, many folks don't read the datasheets, and the devil is in the details.


Again, read their comment on page 15.
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF

They want you to keep the r/r-o/a dies below 90C, for a 50% degredation rate at 20,000 hours, when running at 1400mA.

Notice how the die thermal resistance has dropped from 15-18 C/W to 6 C/W.

If you visit their page, you will notice the price has now dropped to 4.03 ea.
If you click on the shopping cart, you will see that you can buy them direct from Future. If you call them, you may be able to get them to drop the price further.
http://www.lumileds.com/products/family.cfm?familyId=7

I did notice the die is larger, with significantly more contact area (helps lower thermal resistance), which I showed back around April 15th:
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/lux3reda.jpg

Here is a smaller thumbnail of the picture I just made to include in this thread:
lux3redc.jpg
 
Last edited:
I have an H2GH (200+ Lm) in a 1X 123 light, and it pulls an Amp on a fresh primary and 1.8A on an R123. Bright sucker! :D (No, I've never run it for very long.)

Larry
 
None of these LED's will live as long as they say and they know as well as we do that they can get away with it, because most of us here won't care, we'll just want the latest and greatest thing. We won't care that the LED's we bought 8 years ago are not as bright anymore or don't work anymore. We'll just want the new bright ones.
 
tvodrd said:
I have an H2GH (200+ Lm) in a 1X 123 light, and it pulls an Amp on a fresh primary and 1.8A on an R123. Bright sucker! :D (No, I've never run it for very long.)

Larry

Larry - I have toyed with the idea of a home made like that as well. Any idea how much it draws from a CR 123 which is getting a bit older ?
 

Latest posts

Top