1k lumen+ hotwire with 2hr runtime?

[Neubauej]

I am not sure what I want is even possible, but with the knowledge on here, I was hoping y'all would know.

I would like to build a mag-mod howire that puts out 1k+ lumens, and runs for 1.5-2hrs/charge. As for host size, I would like to stay at, or under a 3d mag. I am hoping to keep cost under $200, and (maybe) have the option of running primaries in a pinch.

Is such a beast buildable? Not looking for a monster thrower, but a Strong "blanket of light" type light. (Strong trail walking light)

Please keep in mind that I dont have any rechargable batts, or chargers at this time, and my intended price cap.

Thankyou to all who are willing to help me out in advance!

~Joe

 

[iSleep]

erm ... How about an ROP ? It should satisfy most of your needs (perhaps runtime or cost might be a little off) ... Slap in a HOP or heavy stipple reflector and it should work out quite right ...

 

[EvilLithiumMan]

First: Welcome to CPF!

Second: Read all you can in this thread, especially LuxLuthor's totally
excellent post on hotwire bulbs:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748
It shows what you can expect in regards to brightness and the power required.

Forget about primary cells. They do not have the ability to provide the current needed for a hotwire. As for bulbs, the ROP (already mentioned), WA1185 and Phillips 5761 will get you to that 1K lumen range.

I hope you won't take offence, but you state you want a "strong trail walking
light". It's my opinion that 1K lumens is way too obnoxious for such activity
and you'll be upsetting others, should you encounter them.

As for the $200 price point, it's doable, but you will need good cells, a good
cell holder if not using Li-Ion, battery charger, metal reflector and such.
Good luck with your project and have fun. And see how large your wallet is? Take a good look, it will never be that large again

 

[Neubauej]

Thank you both! As for it being too strong, Probably, however, This would be my secondary light on said trails, for lighting up river valleys, and canyons and such. Also, running into other hikers around here at night is rare. My primary trail light currently is a 2c light with a kpr118 frosted blub, driven by 4x123's.

Thanks again!

 

[yellow]

nobody here to type that "1k lumen", "D-cell Mag size" and "over 30 mins runtime" is plain impossible?
:thinking:
it is impossible.

 

[270winchester]

nobody here to type that "1k lumen", "D-cell Mag size" and "over 30 mins runtime" is plain impossible?
:thinking:
it is impossible.

not with hotwire I'm afraid.

it is achievable with HID and LED are possible though, in recollection.

 

[DM51]

The minimum you would need would be 6x AW 'C' Li-Ion cells (3s2p) and a WA 1185 bulb - this would give you 1,200 lm for nearly 2 hrs. If you didn't mind coming down to 800 lm, a WA 1111 running on 4x 'C' Li-Ions (2s2p) would do it. Both these options would obviously mean a long Mag body, although the WA 1111 option is a 4-cell rather than 6.

The way I would do it would be to settle for a ~1 hour run-time instead of 2 hours, in which case 3s1p 'C' Li-Ions and the WA 1185 would fit in a Mag3C (with a 10mm extension), and all you would need to do would be to carry a spare set of cells with you to get the 2nd hour.

 

[EvilLithiumMan]

nobody here to type that "1k lumen", "D-cell Mag size" and "over 30 mins runtime" is plain impossible?
:thinking:
it is impossible.

I am quite certain that 30+ minutes at 1K lumens in a 2D host is doable. I am in the midst of testing Kai Domain's 5AH, protected li-ion 2D cell pack. The host is a 2D Mag with AWR Hotdriver, set to 6.9 volts. (Voltage measured on the bulb leads) Here is what I have so far:

WA1110 bulb (Magcharger, actually). 330 lumens, from WA rerater page. Measured current draw is 1.75 amps. Total run time of 2 3/4 hours. Calculates to 4.8AH from the battery pack.

WA1160 bulb. 880 lumens, interpolated from LuxLuthor's measurements. Current draw is 4.08 amps. Total run time of 70 minutes. Capcity of 4.76AH.

I will be testing the Phillips 5761 bulb shortly. If the battery pack can deliver 4.5AH with the 5.5 amp load, I'll have 49 minutes of run time.

I'll post a review of the battery pack when I've completed the 5761 measurements. (Although I will tell you now, the low voltage cutoff protection circuit does not function).

 

[2xTrinity]

The minimum you would need would be 6x AW 'C' Li-Ion cells (3s2p) and a WA 1185 bulb - this would give you 1,200 lm for nearly 2 hrs.

The problem with this build is that the longest length that the "C" maglites go up to is 4C. Another is the fact that the AW C cell has been discontinued for a very long time. True, you could buy a 6D maglite and leave tons of empty space, but I couldn't bring myself to ever do that...

The way I would do it would be to settle for a ~1 hour run-time instead of 2 hours, in which case 3s1p 'C' Li-Ions and the WA 1185 would fit in a Mag3C (with a 10mm extension), and all you would need to do would be to carry a spare set of cells with you to get the 2nd hour.

Another alternative is 3 Kaidomain D-Cells (5Ah, 3.7V) in a 3D Host. That should provide about 100 mins runtime. While I personally find a 3C with a set of spares more convenient to carry (I prefer the c-cell bodies), the Kaidomain D-Cell solution would be about $75 cheaper, and that would be more convenient if he actually runs the light for two straight hours than having to swap cells.

However, there is another problem with running a 1k lumen runtime for 2 hours. Even if you were to come up with a battery combination to deliver enough energy to do that, heat is a major problem. I once ran a 2C ROP for 40 straight minutes, and the whole light became too hot to handle (I was working on installing a light fixture at night, with the circuit breaker shut off).

So there are other things you'd need to do in order to make 2 hour continous runtime be feasible:

1) Install a kiu socket, NOT a bipin adapter. A true bipin socket will be able to handle the heat.
2) Install fiberglass insulation behind the reflector and all through the head as much as possible.
3) Get borofloat glass with double O-rings to handle the heat without cracking.

 

[Lighthouse one]

DO you really need that many lumens? There are plenty of strong single and multi led lights that will get you 2 hours of very strong light. I think heat is more of a problem for what you want to do. You can get a light that will throw 500 feet easy and still have a decent spill...are you looking for ET?

 

[mdocod]

yea... When runtime is a concern, I would look to LEDs and see if they will satisfy, a Wolf-Eyes Storm runs for over 2 hours with about 700 emitter lumens and is smaller than a 3D mag by a fair amount. I think it's worth a look. Also there are a number of mods popping up that drop into mag-lights that allow you to run miltu-emitter setups, with a good battery pack, several hours shouldn't be a problem...

A tough build that comes close would be a 3D mag, quad bored or honed out a bit, a 12AA adapter that puts sets of 6 in series, banks in parallel, driving a 64250 20W bulb. This would run for over an hour, and would be about 700-800 bulb lumen.

 

[2xTrinity]

yea... When runtime is a concern, I would look to LEDs and see if they will satisfy, a Wolf-Eyes Storm runs for over 2 hours with about 700 emitter lumens and is smaller than a 3D mag by a fair amount. I think it's worth a look. Also there are a number of mods popping up that drop into mag-lights that allow you to run miltu-emitter setups, with a good battery pack, several hours shouldn't be a problem...

With 2 Kaidomain D-Cells in a 2D host, you could drive 5 high-power emitters at an amp for over two hours, and get over 1000 torch-lumens in the process. Most of the hotwires described above (ROP, Mag85, etc) are significantly less than 1000 lumens, closer to 600.

The real beauty of LED flashlights IMO is that you can dim them -- with incans, if you dim them they get more yellow and less efficient. If you wanted to run an Incan at 0.1% output, it would be a dull orange, yet still consume probably 40% of peak power. LEDs on the other hand stay the same color as they are dimmed, and get more efficient. So you could have your choice of 1000 lumens for 2 hours, or 150 lumens for 24 hours, or 10 lumens for almost three weeks.

Unfortunately, to get 1k lumens over 2 hours with LEDs, you run into just as much of a heat problem as the incan builds, possibly worse -- LEDs have to dissipate ALL of their heat through heatsinking; incans, even though they're higher power radiate most of their heat away in the beam.

I thought of another solution that sounds like it might be good in your case. Although not as sexy as a modded maglite, you could just buy a stock HID light like an N30 for $150. That will give you over 2000 torch lumens for about an hour and a half. Slapping a diffuser over it makes it into a great portable worklight. That's what I use now, instead the ROP for things like working on wiring.

 

[Neubauej]

Hmm, It seems this was tougher than I thought... Bummer.

2xTrinity, and mdocod; You seem to have a ton of interesting ideas, thankyou!!

I was kinda hoping to stay with Incan, mostly because I dislike the color of LED. Too blue/harsh for me. I have been carrying my harbor freight HID for this purpose lately, however, as stated, it is a bit large...

Of course I dont NEED a light quite that strong, but it would be nice... Changing gears, since 1k+ lumens, and 2hr runtime doesnt seem to be all that likely, what would be the strongest flood beam I could build with the parameters outlined above? As previously stated, my current light is a 2c mag body running a kpr118 with 4x123's. Which is what, 200ish torch lumens?

I failed to think about the heat problems of running that strong of a light continously for that period of time. Go me.

Thanks again for all of your patience, and help! (and not being afraid to tell me that I essentially have a pipe dream )

~Joe

 

[Neubauej]

...are you looking for ET?

 

[Neubauej]

yea... When runtime is a concern, I would look to LEDs and see if they will satisfy, a Wolf-Eyes Storm runs for over 2 hours with about 700 emitter lumens and is smaller than a 3D mag by a fair amount. I think it's worth a look. Also there are a number of mods popping up that drop into mag-lights that allow you to run miltu-emitter setups, with a good battery pack, several hours shouldn't be a problem...

A tough build that comes close would be a 3D mag, quad bored or honed out a bit, a 12AA adapter that puts sets of 6 in series, banks in parallel, driving a 64250 20W bulb. This would run for over an hour, and would be about 700-800 bulb lumen.

Both of these sound like good ideas, how is the color on the Wolf-Eyes Storm? The tougher build looks like fun, but expen$ive, and probably a bit over my ability...

 

[mdocod]

The storm runs Cree LEDs, so they will have a more "white/blue" appearance than incandescent, in my personal opinion, these modern LEDs have come a long way in pleasant looking light. My Cree lights appear to "fill out" the spectrum substantially better than the older Luxeon lights we were all used to. They're not incan spectrums, but they are very decent.

 

[2xTrinity]

I was kinda hoping to stay with Incan, mostly because I dislike the color of LED. Too blue/harsh for me. I have been carrying my harbor freight HID for this purpose lately, however, as stated, it is a bit large...

There have been some pretty interesting looking power LEDs coming out in warm and neutral color temps too. A few people who have swapped out halogens at home for LEDs with very similar color temps -- 3000-3500K, without any noticeable color distortion. See here and here. In the past, "warm white" LEDs used to be a nasty green color, so this is a big improvement. I think they even have some as low as 2650k (the same as "long-life" incans). LED don't have to mean bluish white anymore.

The warm/neutral bins are about 25% less efficient. Basically they're same efficiency the premium cool white LEDs were 6 months ago. Outdoors where most things reflect red/green, and very little blue, the warm Crees might actually appear brighter.

If you're going to do an LED build, and really hate cool white, you should try using something in the 3000-4000k range, I think it would be a first for CPF in a multi-emitter flashlight application. I know cutter.com.au has them, they're generally the first to get new LEDs in, but unfortunately you'll pay more to be an early adopter. I'm waiting for a group buy or other vendor to start selling ~3500K LEDs for <$10/ea, then i'll buy tons.

 

[fxstsb]

The problem with this build is that the longest length that the "C" maglites go up to is 4C. Another is the fact that the AW C cell has been discontinued for a very long time. True, you could buy a 6D maglite and leave tons of empty space, but I couldn't bring myself to ever do that...

Another alternative is 3 Kaidomain D-Cells (5Ah, 3.7V) in a 3D Host. That should provide about 100 mins runtime. While I personally find a 3C with a set of spares more convenient to carry (I prefer the c-cell bodies), the Kaidomain D-Cell solution would be about $75 cheaper, and that would be more convenient if he actually runs the light for two straight hours than having to swap cells.

However, there is another problem with running a 1k lumen runtime for 2 hours. Even if you were to come up with a battery combination to deliver enough energy to do that, heat is a major problem. I once ran a 2C ROP for 40 straight minutes, and the whole light became too hot to handle (I was working on installing a light fixture at night, with the circuit breaker shut off).

So there are other things you'd need to do in order to make 2 hour continous runtime be feasible:

1) Install a kiu socket, NOT a bipin adapter. A true bipin socket will be able to handle the heat.
2) Install fiberglass insulation behind the reflector and all through the head as much as possible.
3) Get borofloat glass with double O-rings to handle the heat without cracking.

not saying this is the solution but an idea. 18650s inside of pvc, inside of a D maglite.

 

[RoyJ]

not saying this is the solution but an idea. 18650s inside of pvc, inside of a D maglite.

It works well, but the 18650s will have far less capacity than the aforementioned li-ion Ds.

 

[pertinax]

Quad bored 3D mag, with 12 series/parallel Sanyo 2500s for 7.2V running a ROP High bulb. Ought to do an hour 15-ish, though a ROP isn't really 1000 lumens out the front. Plenty bright though.

Fivemega had sold something similar a couple of years ago, set up for lithium batts (serial/parallel again). That one would have probably hit the 1.5 hour+ mark easily, but not for under $200.

Personally, I'd run Eneloops in a LuxLuthor pack and leave the beast in the trunk, ready to go when needed.

Pertinax