3 Rechargeable RCR 123As compared:

[petevb]

Someone suggested doing a comparison of some of some of the rechargeable 123 cells currently on the market. I've just received a couple different types of these cells, so I thought I'd do a "quick and dirty" test of the ones I've got and post the results. It's not fancy, but I think it should reflect relative real world results. It will have to do until someone does a more controlled test.

Batteries:
BatteryStation.com RCR 123A- protected, "700 mAh"
JSBurlys.com Rechargeable 123- protected
BatterySpace.com Powerizer RCR123A- unprotected, "650 mAh"

I tested 3 of the battery station cells 2x each, and 2 of the other two cells 2x each, for a total of 14 tests.

The first test light was a regulated Longbow Micra, which pulls a nominal 1.6 Watts. The second test light was an unregulated Q3, which must have been pulling a bit less than twice that. I've averaged the Run Times:

Q3-
Battery Station: 39 minutes to cutoff
JSBurly's: 36 minutes to cutoff
Battery Space: 34 minutes* deep discharge- to about 2 volts

Longbow Micra-
Battery Station: 73 minutes to cutoff
JSBurly's: 67 minutes to cutoff
Battery Space: 63 minutes* deep discharge- to about 2 volts

So in this sample the Battery Station cells seem to have a small advantage (7% or so) over the JSB cells, with the Battery Space cells taking up the rear. Given that the battery space cells are not protected and they also give the worst run time I'd say they're clearly the losers of this test. The other two each have different advantages:

The Battery Station cells charge the fastest and have the most capacity. One of my chargers appears to show a "green light" a little early, in that it displays green at about 4.1 volts, though the voltage will continue to climb to close to 4.2 volts. You'll get shorter or longer run times than mine depending on how long after the green light comes on you pull the cells off. There is also slight variation from charger to charger- one topped off to 4.21 volts, and another to 4.18, so "your results may vary".
The Battery Station cells are slightly larger in diameter and longer than most CR123s- they will not fit into an L2, for instance.

The JSB cells will fit into an L2 or other smaller bore light. The charger makes sure every last bit of juice is in the cells before it shows a green light, topping off at 4.24 volts, and it takes much longer (hours) to charge the cells than the Battery Station. The aesthetics of the JSB cells are a bit better than the Battery Station cells.

The Battery Space cells don't seem to have too much going for them...

Hope this is useful.

 

[AW]

Mileage is different even though they have the same stated capacities. I believe the manufacturing process plays an important role. I have come across a batch of the latest generic 750mAH R123. Upon my own runtime tests in a QIII, ARC 4 and KL1 ( gen 4 ), they performed even worst than some 600mAH cells. I certainly will reject these cells.

My rejects:

On another note : The 700mAH unprotected R123s I am offering on another thread :-

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB29&Number=890827&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

They perform quite well on the runtime tests. I hope some members will post feedbacks for their experiences on them with unbaised opinions.

 

[chevrofreak]

In my Q3 with TW0J I get 36 minutes 55 seconds hand held, and 37 minutes 45 seconds fan cooled using JSB cells. I really dig these little things /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[wptski]

Now that I just ordered cells from Battery Station and Battery Space!

There was some posts in other threads "suggesting" that both of these cells "might" be protected for discharge but the postee didn't reply to my questions, so I ordered a few of each to test myself.

One was using a Fatman converter and I couldn't find anything that stated that it had built in LVC.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Petevb,

Excellent information.

Running your unprotected cells down to 2.0 volts (under load) is a good way to reduce the capacity of those cells even more.

The size difference is interesting. I was going to get some BatteryStation cells, but my JS Burley cells are snug in some of my lights. I may have to wait on this.

Charging these cells is interesting. You get more capacity (run time) charging to 4.2 volts, but you get more cycles if you stop the charge at 4.1 volts. At 4.2 volts you are supposed to get about 400 cycles. That raises to over 1500 cycles if you stop at 4.1 volts. The capacity difference at these two ending points is only about 12%, so it makes me lean towards grabing the cells off the charger as soon as the light goes green.

Tom

 

[wasBlinded]

Rechargeable Li-ion cells degrade over time whether used or not IIRC.

I wonder if you are really gaining anything real by charging to only 4.1 volts if they will be significantly degraded after three years anyway?

 

[SilverFox]

Hello wasBlinded,

The aging thing seems to vary from cell to cell. In computer battery packs, one cell seems to die in about 3 years, but the others seem to go on for quite a bit longer.

To the casual user there would be little gain, but to a "power user," 1500 cycles is less than 2 cycles per day over 3 years. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom

 

[modamag]

petevb, great information! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

BTW: Welcome to CPF.

 

[cognitivefun]

Bravo! Terrific information, what great information, thanks

 

[4sevens]

peter,

Any chance you can test AW's 700mah r123?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[AW]

[ QUOTE ]
4sevens said:
peter,

Any chance you can test AW's 700mah r123?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

4sevens,

You have my previous generic version 700mAH cells, they perform pretty much the same /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Please give us your unbiased opinion.

 

[petevb]

4sevens- I don't have any of AWs cells, or I'd test them and put them up. After testing both kinds, though, I prefer the protected cells- unprotected cells would need an advantage in run time for me to consider them.

Good you guys are finding this info useful.

 

[luminaria]

I have made a quick unscientific test with an AW's 700mah cell on one of my stock Q3s. The cell was unused and charged to 4.20v.

It has run for 41 minutes, handheld, with three one minute stops in the last ten minutes to check voltage. I have stopped at 2.76v although it has recovered up to 3.06 in one minute, but it didn't make sense to continue without protection.

Of course there are too much variables to make a fair comparison...

 

[AW]

luminaria,

You should get better results after a few break-in cycles with the cell /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif BTW, it should be safe to run the cell until your QIII flickers.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello AW,

Unlike Nickle chemistry, Li-Ion cells give there best performance the first time they are used. This only changes when using them for high current applications (more than 5C).

Tom

 

[luminaria]

I am not sure it is safe. The other day, while I was working, I let one Q3 running in my desktop with a r123, to check if there were visible symptoms that the battery was low.

I was working and maybe I didn't take enough attention and I missed previous signals, but all I know is that suddenly I noticed a slow flicker in the light, and I switched off.


When I checked it was at 2v, too low. I recharged it inmediately and it went to 4.2v again, but probably its capacity has suffered.

I am going to use unprotected r123 only on flashlights with protection circuits incorporated on the driver.

 

[wptski]

[ QUOTE ]
luminaria said:
I am going to use unprotected r123 only on flashlights with protection circuits incorporated on the driver.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which flashlights or drivers might that be? I know that the SureFire U2 is one but what are the others? I'd like to see a list of drivers/flashlights that have LVC and what is their LVC set to? Sounds like a new thread, hey?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[AW]

Tom,

You are the battery guru here and I respect your fountain of knowledge about batteries. However, my experiences indicates the performance of LiIon batteries in its first few cycles will not give its best. The same is true for my cell phone batteries. Any others have the same experience?

luminaria,

If you cells' voltage recovers by itself to above 2.8V in a few minutes, there will be next to none damage to the capacity. If, however, your smart charger or Nano refuses to charge it, damage is done. I have just revived a dead cell by charging it with my bench power supply at 50mA for a few hours. When its voltage returned to above 3.4V, I bought it to a full charge with another charger. Don't know about the capacity damage, will test later.

 

[Spacemarine]

That is also my experience. The cells I bought from you AW seemed to increase their capacity very slightly with the first few cycles.

My cellphone (Nokia 6310 or was it even my Siemens S35i?)) also showed this phenonemon (practically doubled the runtime) when it was charged for the first time. But since the batterys in these phones are smart, it might also be the electronics inside them which needs to be calibrated with a few cycles before allowing the full capacity.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello AW,

I will do some more looking into this. The RC people and I agree that there is an improvement at high current drains and little improvement at lower current drains, but Li-Ion chemistry is a bit strange. I don't fully understand why it would be true at high discharge currents and not true for lower currents, so there may be something to what you have experienced.

I was going to mention that there may be a difference in battery packs (2 or more cells), but I think cell phone batteries only have one cell...

I guess I should order a charger and couple of cells from you and give it a test... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom