4Sevens Maelstrom G5 *SHIPPING VERSION* Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS +
- Thread starter selfbuilt
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
First, a BIG thank you for the review.
I must admit, I'm a bit disappointed about the UI.
Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 😱
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode.
IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med.
So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 😎
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes.
First, a BIG thank you for the review.
I must admit, I'm a bit disappointed about the UI.
Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 😱
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode.
IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med.
So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 😎
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes.
Last edited:
TwitchALot
Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
- Messages
- 248
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
What? I ordered two days ago and my order has the status, "incomplete." 😕
What? I ordered two days ago and my order has the status, "incomplete." 😕
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
"Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 😱
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode.
IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med.
So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 😎
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes."
The Quark Turbo should fit that bill just fine.
"Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 😱
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode.
IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med.
So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 😎
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes."
The Quark Turbo should fit that bill just fine.
AussieRanga
Enlightened
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2010
- Messages
- 206
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
I've just got a few questions about the regulation and runtimes of this light, hopefully someone can be of assistance.
Judging by the tables and graphs it appears that the 18650 cannot maintain full output for very long; you've got about 2000 less LUX in the table with 18650: how do you measure this, is it after a few minutes once output has settled down?
The runtime curve with the 18650 suggests to me that on Max you get light that's constantly dropping for over 2 hours, whereas the RCR appears to only light up for 38 minutes but at full regulation, they (RCRs) will also just 'die' all of a sudden opposed to giving you plenty of notice that you're about to run flat with 18650s?
Now onto High mode, it appears that again with the 18650 the light doesn't maintain constant output, rather the output slowly tapers off as well.
Does it maintain regulation fairly well (appears to do so for ~120 mins), and maintain brightness most of the time only to taper off slightly at the end to let you know it's running low or is it always decreasing like Max but not to the same extent?
The runtime is roughly double (on high) that of RCR yet they hold their regulation the whole way, has this got something to do with the voltage and current draw being higher with 2xRCRs over an 18650?
I'm pretty sure I understand why the runtimes are longer, but it was just confusing to see the output dropping with the 18650, which to be honest I thought to be a better cell. I'm new to Li-ion and I'm just trying to work out if I want RCR or 18650s as it's also going to factor into a few other purchases over the coming months. I know I'll eventually get both but for now I'm just interested in the best for this light.
Also, is it safe to assume most primary CR123s will show similar runtime etc to the Duracell ones?
I've just got a few questions about the regulation and runtimes of this light, hopefully someone can be of assistance.
Judging by the tables and graphs it appears that the 18650 cannot maintain full output for very long; you've got about 2000 less LUX in the table with 18650: how do you measure this, is it after a few minutes once output has settled down?
The runtime curve with the 18650 suggests to me that on Max you get light that's constantly dropping for over 2 hours, whereas the RCR appears to only light up for 38 minutes but at full regulation, they (RCRs) will also just 'die' all of a sudden opposed to giving you plenty of notice that you're about to run flat with 18650s?
Now onto High mode, it appears that again with the 18650 the light doesn't maintain constant output, rather the output slowly tapers off as well.
Does it maintain regulation fairly well (appears to do so for ~120 mins), and maintain brightness most of the time only to taper off slightly at the end to let you know it's running low or is it always decreasing like Max but not to the same extent?
The runtime is roughly double (on high) that of RCR yet they hold their regulation the whole way, has this got something to do with the voltage and current draw being higher with 2xRCRs over an 18650?
I'm pretty sure I understand why the runtimes are longer, but it was just confusing to see the output dropping with the 18650, which to be honest I thought to be a better cell. I'm new to Li-ion and I'm just trying to work out if I want RCR or 18650s as it's also going to factor into a few other purchases over the coming months. I know I'll eventually get both but for now I'm just interested in the best for this light.
Also, is it safe to assume most primary CR123s will show similar runtime etc to the Duracell ones?
ACHË
Newly Enlightened
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
I'm really liking this light!
The size is a huge plus for me...The Malestrom is at that perfect sweet spot size-wise for my personal preference(the Spear being the reference). It also looks good.
If I had the cash I'd order one, like right now....
Hmmm...maybe I should look for a job at 4Sevens :devil:
Any openings for flashlight field testers? I could be your Jungle testing facility guy :laughing: :laughing:
Awesome light...just awesome...
Great review as usual Selfbuilt:thumbsup:
I'm really liking this light!
The size is a huge plus for me...The Malestrom is at that perfect sweet spot size-wise for my personal preference(the Spear being the reference). It also looks good.
If I had the cash I'd order one, like right now....
Hmmm...maybe I should look for a job at 4Sevens :devil:
Any openings for flashlight field testers? I could be your Jungle testing facility guy :laughing: :laughing:
Awesome light...just awesome...
Great review as usual Selfbuilt:thumbsup:
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
I'm about to take the G5 to the beach for a week, so I'll really know how I like it over the next few days. However, my first impressions are positive. I like the size and feel, for sure. The led does give a quick flicker when initiating (clicking on) the medium mode, but it's only a problem on medium for some reason.
It's BRIGHT. I lit up three deer last night with both my 200 lumen E2DL and the G5 and I must say, the G5 can really kick out some light. It's so nice to have an XP-G thrower in the mix.
I completely understand the tactical concept for this light, so I'm in no position to complain since I bought the light with a clear understanding of the UI. I definitely wish that Turbo was an option in the "L - M - H" mode. It's incredibly annoying having to switch back and forth between modes just to access Turbo versus L-M-H.
I'm about to take the G5 to the beach for a week, so I'll really know how I like it over the next few days. However, my first impressions are positive. I like the size and feel, for sure. The led does give a quick flicker when initiating (clicking on) the medium mode, but it's only a problem on medium for some reason.
It's BRIGHT. I lit up three deer last night with both my 200 lumen E2DL and the G5 and I must say, the G5 can really kick out some light. It's so nice to have an XP-G thrower in the mix.
I completely understand the tactical concept for this light, so I'm in no position to complain since I bought the light with a clear understanding of the UI. I definitely wish that Turbo was an option in the "L - M - H" mode. It's incredibly annoying having to switch back and forth between modes just to access Turbo versus L-M-H.
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
Regulation has to do with the higher voltage. A buck circuit works fine as long as battery voltage is higher then the led forward voltage for the desired current. With a single 18650 and XP-G-LEDs that works about until
the cell is half empty, from there on its slowly dimming direct drive.
With two RCR123 you've got constant light until the protection of one of the cells trips.
But the runtime difference can be explained simply by energy content of the cells. The RCRs have 2*3,7*750 = 5,5Wh; the 18650 has 3,7*2600=9,5Wh, almost twice as much. The torch putting out more light later on accounts for any power thats unaccounted for.
Regulation has to do with the higher voltage. A buck circuit works fine as long as battery voltage is higher then the led forward voltage for the desired current. With a single 18650 and XP-G-LEDs that works about until
the cell is half empty, from there on its slowly dimming direct drive.
With two RCR123 you've got constant light until the protection of one of the cells trips.
But the runtime difference can be explained simply by energy content of the cells. The RCRs have 2*3,7*750 = 5,5Wh; the 18650 has 3,7*2600=9,5Wh, almost twice as much. The torch putting out more light later on accounts for any power thats unaccounted for.
Chevy-SS
Enlightened
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
Yeah, me too. I truly don't understand the thought process. I ordered a G5 anyway, but for me this is gonna be a defensive light, so turbo and strobe are the only things I'm really concerned with.
4Sevens, you guys really should have 'Turbo' available in each subset.
It would be infinitely better if these high-end lights would come out with fully programmable UI's, that could (with small USB-type cable) be totally customized to each user's preference. I gotta believe this is right around the corner........
-
Yeah, me too. I truly don't understand the thought process. I ordered a G5 anyway, but for me this is gonna be a defensive light, so turbo and strobe are the only things I'm really concerned with.
4Sevens, you guys really should have 'Turbo' available in each subset.
It would be infinitely better if these high-end lights would come out with fully programmable UI's, that could (with small USB-type cable) be totally customized to each user's preference. I gotta believe this is right around the corner........
-
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
As for your other points, it has to do with the difference in battery capacity and how the circuit handles different voltage inputs. In multi-power lights like this one, on 1x3.7V Li-ion sources (i.e. 18650) the buck circuit can typically only provide regulation until the emitter Vf is reached - at which point it switches into direct-drive (as Lawliet already explained). This is not a bad thing, as it is efficient and prevents you from hitting a protection circuit cut-off inadvertently.
It is also very hard to design a circuit that is completely regulated on all sources - as you will note in the comparisons, most multi-power lights are direct-drive from the beginning on Max on 1x18650 (like this one).
My Throw measures (lux) are typically taken within the first 30 secs after ignition. In rare cases (i.e. some high output, multi-emitter lights) where there is an initial drop-off followed by flat regulation within a min or two, I will wait for the regulated level (and note such in the review). But as you notice here, the light is direct-drive on max on 18650, so there is no point in waiting - it does not reach regulation.
As for your other points, it has to do with the difference in battery capacity and how the circuit handles different voltage inputs. In multi-power lights like this one, on 1x3.7V Li-ion sources (i.e. 18650) the buck circuit can typically only provide regulation until the emitter Vf is reached - at which point it switches into direct-drive (as Lawliet already explained). This is not a bad thing, as it is efficient and prevents you from hitting a protection circuit cut-off inadvertently.
It is also very hard to design a circuit that is completely regulated on all sources - as you will note in the comparisons, most multi-power lights are direct-drive from the beginning on Max on 1x18650 (like this one).
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
There were plans for a fully programmable light by jsburly, indium smart, if I remember correctly, but the costs were prohibitively high, and the lights were never manufactured. It isn't just the circuit, but also the software that was necessary for the interface. If you want a light like the G5, but usb programmable, expect to be paying at least a couple hundred dollars more (I believe the intro price was 350).
I believe it will be quite a while before there is a fully programmable light for 150. It seems like it will need to start at around 300-500, and then if it is popular enough, and enough lights are made, it may eventually drop in price, but I think that will be quite a ways away.
There were plans for a fully programmable light by jsburly, indium smart, if I remember correctly, but the costs were prohibitively high, and the lights were never manufactured. It isn't just the circuit, but also the software that was necessary for the interface. If you want a light like the G5, but usb programmable, expect to be paying at least a couple hundred dollars more (I believe the intro price was 350).
I believe it will be quite a while before there is a fully programmable light for 150. It seems like it will need to start at around 300-500, and then if it is popular enough, and enough lights are made, it may eventually drop in price, but I think that will be quite a ways away.
powernoodle
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
A little consumer feedback here. I don't own a G5, but I'm going to count my dozen or so purchases from 4seven (and hundreds of bucks spent) as making me qualified to comment. 🙂
The "4 turn" method of switching between "sets" seems cumbersome, and requires two hands, and like others have noted, I'd like to see the Max setting on the same "set" as the lower outputs. Additionally, the light's incompatibility with 18650 flat top cells is another bummer. I don't want to have to find and mess with a magnet, and the commentary in another thread that it "should work" is not confidence inspiring.
350 OTF is way sweet, and goofy bright considering that Surefire's 60 lumens was big stuff not that long ago it seems.
But the UI and 18650 flat top things are a deal breaker for me. A few levels accessed by simply turning the head would be awesome, like the U2 for example. Max>hi>med>low>moon>strobe. I'll be watching, though, for whatever else 4sevens has in store for us.
A little consumer feedback here. I don't own a G5, but I'm going to count my dozen or so purchases from 4seven (and hundreds of bucks spent) as making me qualified to comment. 🙂
The "4 turn" method of switching between "sets" seems cumbersome, and requires two hands, and like others have noted, I'd like to see the Max setting on the same "set" as the lower outputs. Additionally, the light's incompatibility with 18650 flat top cells is another bummer. I don't want to have to find and mess with a magnet, and the commentary in another thread that it "should work" is not confidence inspiring.
350 OTF is way sweet, and goofy bright considering that Surefire's 60 lumens was big stuff not that long ago it seems.
But the UI and 18650 flat top things are a deal breaker for me. A few levels accessed by simply turning the head would be awesome, like the U2 for example. Max>hi>med>low>moon>strobe. I'll be watching, though, for whatever else 4sevens has in store for us.
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
That might be teasing for the enthusiast. But it could be a big con for the high volume customers. The average fire or police department will want a tool thats as foolproof as possible (Think Fenix TK11/12. Why would a hobby user buy the current incarnation of the TK11?). Having someone learn the programming thing may be ok, but a mishap because of two guys getting their lights mixed up - who shall take the blame?
But then a blend of the Quark Tactical and Maelstrom-UI would be just right for me. 😗
That might be teasing for the enthusiast. But it could be a big con for the high volume customers. The average fire or police department will want a tool thats as foolproof as possible (Think Fenix TK11/12. Why would a hobby user buy the current incarnation of the TK11?). Having someone learn the programming thing may be ok, but a mishap because of two guys getting their lights mixed up - who shall take the blame?
But then a blend of the Quark Tactical and Maelstrom-UI would be just right for me. 😗
ebow86
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
I'm anxious to wait and see how the quality control reports are over the next few months, to see if quark is starting to improve.
I'm anxious to wait and see how the quality control reports are over the next few months, to see if quark is starting to improve.
snala
Newly Enlightened
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
I agree. Dealbreaker for me is when used on Max this is effectively a 1 mode light and then Max/Hi are both not regulated on 18650 either which you need to use to get decent runtime. I was looking for this to replace my Tiablo A9 but for $150 and the above reasons it just isn't going to.
Realise this is intended for Pro CQB use and CR123's so is limited because of that.
A consumer model fully regulated with 1 set of 4 modes only; Max, Hi, Med and Low, so remove the changeover UI, just have one bezal, no pouch? and then sell for the $100 they said originally, would be the huge seller I think?
Would be worth the extra money over the $77 TK12(R5) or even the $75 Quark Turbo for it's better reflector design and higher output.
I agree. Dealbreaker for me is when used on Max this is effectively a 1 mode light and then Max/Hi are both not regulated on 18650 either which you need to use to get decent runtime. I was looking for this to replace my Tiablo A9 but for $150 and the above reasons it just isn't going to.
Realise this is intended for Pro CQB use and CR123's so is limited because of that.
A consumer model fully regulated with 1 set of 4 modes only; Max, Hi, Med and Low, so remove the changeover UI, just have one bezal, no pouch? and then sell for the $100 they said originally, would be the huge seller I think?
Would be worth the extra money over the $77 TK12(R5) or even the $75 Quark Turbo for it's better reflector design and higher output.
Last edited:
carrot
Flashaholic
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
Hi, removing programmed features does not change the cost of any components in the light, and hence would not result in a price drop.
Hi, removing programmed features does not change the cost of any components in the light, and hence would not result in a price drop.
AardvarkSagus
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
More than likely, it would be a price increase since it would be a special run.
More than likely, it would be a price increase since it would be a special run.
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
Vernon:
I have that flicker or what I refer to as a momentary ramp up / reverse preflash kind of thing. A "flicker" might be more accurate, Happens every time on mine only on medium (28 lumen setting I believe) as well. Now based on the assumption that this is going to be present on many of these lights I have to say that although it is there, it is not an issue in real life use and is really not a reason to avoid the light. I actually kind of like it becuase I know exactly what mode I am current using as soon as the light comes on.
Vernon:
I have that flicker or what I refer to as a momentary ramp up / reverse preflash kind of thing. A "flicker" might be more accurate, Happens every time on mine only on medium (28 lumen setting I believe) as well. Now based on the assumption that this is going to be present on many of these lights I have to say that although it is there, it is not an issue in real life use and is really not a reason to avoid the light. I actually kind of like it becuase I know exactly what mode I am current using as soon as the light comes on.
TwitchALot
Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
- Messages
- 248
Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!
The regulation seems fine on high with an 18650 (I'm not quite sure what charts you're looking at, but the ones I'm looking at seem fine). It tapers off a bit toward the end of its battery life, but that's to be expected.
I'm not an expert on these matters, but the RCR's will provide enough voltage to maintain a well-regulated (and lower) current draw. A single li-ion, on the other hand, must supply far more current to make up for the reduced voltage.
It's not simply the cell (nor would I say that one is "better" than another). You need to consider the power requirements and regulation of the specific light.
Not all cells are equal, either. You may want to consider looking at the CR123A shootouts that have been done to compare batteries.
The production model G5 I have works with flat tops on the primary and secondary modes. More on that in my review (to come later).
I'm curious as to what graphs everyone is looking at. The regulation on 18650 on high seems fine (not perfect, but definitely there) to me. Most multi-mode, multi-battery, lights don't have flat-regulation on 18650's as is, so it's surprising to me that this is a surprise to people. It's not easy to get perfect regulation over such a wide voltage range, especially given the power requirements of this light.
The regulation seems fine on high with an 18650 (I'm not quite sure what charts you're looking at, but the ones I'm looking at seem fine). It tapers off a bit toward the end of its battery life, but that's to be expected.
I'm not an expert on these matters, but the RCR's will provide enough voltage to maintain a well-regulated (and lower) current draw. A single li-ion, on the other hand, must supply far more current to make up for the reduced voltage.
It's not simply the cell (nor would I say that one is "better" than another). You need to consider the power requirements and regulation of the specific light.
Not all cells are equal, either. You may want to consider looking at the CR123A shootouts that have been done to compare batteries.
powernoodle said:
The production model G5 I have works with flat tops on the primary and secondary modes. More on that in my review (to come later).
snala said:
I'm curious as to what graphs everyone is looking at. The regulation on 18650 on high seems fine (not perfect, but definitely there) to me. Most multi-mode, multi-battery, lights don't have flat-regulation on 18650's as is, so it's surprising to me that this is a surprise to people. It's not easy to get perfect regulation over such a wide voltage range, especially given the power requirements of this light.
