5mm LEDs - Any love left?

[Hondo]

Wow, glad I poked around and found your cool thread, carrot! I've got two months to catch up on - hang on:

I'm still a 5 mm junkie, not that I don't use the latest stuff too. Around the house I might have a modded Dorcy AAA Gen II (remember those?), Gerber Infinity Ultra or Sonic, Arc AAA, or Fenix E0 (no, not E01, but I've got those too - the E0 was the original, and smaller) in my pocket. My X5 is loaded and ready, as are several coin lights, Photon Freedom on CR2032, and an Inova Microlight in my coat now. I NEVER sleep without my Nichia DS modded SafeLight Superbright (Handyman) next to the bed (RIP James, and the PAL/SafeLight line). Sometimes I just use a 9V with my own cap made from a DS and a 22,000 Ohm resistor, potted in hot glue.

But my grab light in the kitchen and the bottom of the basement stairs is usually a cheap plastic 2xAA light with a PR2 conversion bulb. The MJLED cut and polished 5 mm LED's, and low forward voltage were great either in these boost-circuit bulbs, creating a dynamite beam, especially from the faceted reflectors, or direct drive off of two AA alkalines. I made a few of these by busting the guts from incan bulbs and soldering in the MJLED. All-time run-time king? The Eveready Industrial 2-D, with a direct drive MJLED mod, and the boost-circuit bulb in the spare holder inside the head for when it gets too dim in DD. Those 84-cent Walmart lights from 10 years ago were awesome for this, or for "big-bucks" the Eveready industrial AA, when they were incan. Also a neat drop-in to the Mini-Mag with a little reflector drilling - just trim the legs, and plug the LED directly into the bulb pin holes.

Lots of good headlamps, but I'll just give props to the one I use most, the Icon Irix II with the brightness dial - best interface possible - and on 1 AA to boot.

 

[lampeDépêche]

This thread asks, "Any love left for 5mm LEDs?", and Hondo's answer is "YES! A LOT!".

Great stuff. I got your PM, and look forward to sending you some Yuji's to play with.

I still have enough for one or two more takers--then I'll be all through with the 100 that I bought.

It cost me maybe $30.00 (half of it shipping!), but it has turned out to be lot of fun to spread the wealth.

 

[LeanBurn]

Envelope with money sent lampeDépêche

 

[lampeDépêche]

Envelope with money sent lampeDépêche

Thanks, LeanBurn!

Sorry that I had to ask you for the $2.00 Canadian in order to cover the stamps back to you. If you put Canadian stamps on your SASE, I cannot send them from the States.

(Not sure why that is, given that the US Postal service will carry a letter with Canadian stamps once it has crossed the border coming to me. I guess it's a matter of bookkeeping, all worked out in postal treaties.)

 

[LeanBurn]

Not a problem at all. Thanks for the chance to mod something entirely unique.😎

 

[parametrek]

Hey parametrek,

When you do that, write up the mod, will you? I'm kind of tempted to try it, but I'm not very handy with a soldering iron.

Of course. Still trying to figure out how to get it open safely though. And I've heard the guts are potted, so that'll make the project even more fun. And need to do some run time testing too...

 

[Hondo]

I've done the Gerber Infinity Ultra, and it is not potted like the old CMG's were. Yank clip straight off, don't slide it or it will make a mess of the finish. Heat the head joint to soften the adhesive and unscrew. I use a bunch of rubber bands around the head for better grip. Real easy from there. I find it is not worth taking the old LED from the board, I just cut the legs in the middle and solder the legs of the new one to the old leg stubs, way easier.

 

[Mr. Shawn]

Lots of good headlamps, but I'll just give props to the one I use most, the Icon Irix II with the brightness dial - best interface possible - and on 1 AA to boot.

I agree, Hondo. I have been using both the Irix I and II models consistently the past 3 years, and they have both sufficiently met my needs in a headlamp, especially since they both use only 1AA battery. However, I decided to upgrade my headlamp and just received a ThruNite TH20 headlamp, which I am extremely pleased with, but I will continue using my Icon headlamps when the need arises.

 

[lampeDépêche]

I've done the Gerber Infinity Ultra, and it is not potted like the old CMG's were. Yank clip straight off, don't slide it or it will make a mess of the finish. Heat the head joint to soften the adhesive and unscrew. I use a bunch of rubber bands around the head for better grip. Real easy from there. I find it is not worth taking the old LED from the board, I just cut the legs in the middle and solder the legs of the new one to the old leg stubs, way easier.

Thank you, Hondo! This inspired me to do my first-ever emitter-swap last night, on a Gerber Infinity Ultra.

I used a pair of strap-wrenches to twist off the head and it came very easily with no heating at all. The soldering was within my very limited capabilities, though I think any artist who saw the burn-marks on the board would be appalled.

I put in a 5600k Yuji Hi CRI sent to me by member "K2-bk-bl-rd", who sent me five of those for the five 3200k Yujis that I sent to him or her. The 5600ks do not have the same rich honey-dipped incan look that the 3200k do, but they give more output of course, and I want this light for a back-up in my daybag, so I wanted more of an all-purpose beam.

It is a *huge* improvement over the narrow purple spot that Gerber used. That was one ugly LED!

Now I wish I knew more about the efficiency of the Gerber driver.

Is there any other single-cell AA light that uses a 5mm LED? Aside from the almost mythical ARC-AA, and a few rarities like that.

Two final thoughts:
1) Thanks to K2-bk-bl-rd! I don't see him or her post around on threads much, but it was nice of them to swap me a few 5600k LEDS for the 3200 LEDS I sent.
2) I have been interested to correspond with several members when I am sending them free LEDs, and find out that they are women. (I have no reason to think that K2-bk-bl-rd is one of them). There are more women on this forum than most of you probably realize. Women love high-quality lights, too, they just probably hide behind a neutral 'nym in order not to get hassled. Next time you're writing a post or a comment, keep in mind that it's not all guys on this forum, however much the loud-mouths may make it sound that way.

 

[K2-bk-bl-rd]

My name is Joshua, so pretty easy to figure from there! Glad to swap some LED's with you. I've been a member for almost 9 years, but I admit I spend most of my time reading threads. I am curious about those gerber lights. I may have to pick one up, to use one of the 3200k leds in. If anyone else wants a few 5600k led's I'd be will to let a few more go.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Here's a throw-back to when 5mm's were king:

The HDS Systems "Action-Light" headlamp, featuring a hexagonal array of *24* 5mm LEDs on a headlamp run from a Lithium D-cell:

http://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/Action2/ActionLightAIOCC.php

I never had one of these, but I thought it was cool as all get out. The lithium D-cell seemed like a great idea, and the idea that it could run for 700 hours amazed me. (Of course, now a Zebralight will get almost that much from an alkaline AA cell).

Given what we have now, this looks bulky and inefficient, and a light temperature of 6500k would not please me. But in 2000, it looked truly amazing. And all of those 5mm LEDs!

 

[NutSAK]

Now I wish I knew more about the efficiency of the Gerber driver.

Here's a good old thread that you might be interested in: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...light-Inova-X1-(new)-or-Gerber-Infinity-Ultra

Wow, has it really been 10 years since we participated in that thread? Take note of the difference in runtimes alkaline vs. lithium, due to the difference in the curves (lithium with a flatter curve, and higher current).

Also, here's a great old Hondo GIU mod thread from 11 years ago: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho...inity-mod-step-by-step&highlight=infinity mod

 

[lampeDépêche]

Thanks for that thread-link, NutSAK!

Question for you electronics experts: when I switch out the LED, how much does that affect run-time?

I could imagine two answers:

A) no effect: the driver outputs the same current, and it is up to the LED to make more or less light with it.
B) some effect: the driver responds to the load on it, so if the new LED draws more (or less) current, then the runtime will drop (or extend).

I switched from whatever the stock purple spotty monster is, to a 5600k Hi CRI Yuji that was sent to me by K2-bk-bl-rd. Here are the specs from the Yujiintl website:

Nominal Wattage: 0.06 W
Rated current: 20 mA
Forward Voltage: 2.7 - 3.1 V
Luminous Flux(5600K): 6.6 - 8.0 lm

Since it says it puts out about 8 lumens, and the Gerber claims to put out 8 lumens as well, then maybe it's about the same power consumption, and so the same runtime? Maybe?

 

[lampeDépêche]

That thread also touched on the great Gerber vs. CMG controversy: whose Infinity is better?

I had a CMG for a while, and now i have the Gerber I just modded. Even aside from the ease of modding, there are two things I prefer about the Gerber:
1) The tail-cap does a very good imitation of a push-button momentary on when you twist it almost on and back off 1/8 of a turn;
2) The CMG was a battery-crusher, with no springs. That also means it was *not* a good choice for using AAAs in a pinch--you'd need some sort of extender/converter. The Gerber has the springs on both ends, which means that it eats AAAs right away, without needing any modification or addition. In a backup light, that's a very good feature!

But I know a lot of people loved the old CMG and its tank-like build. I did too. On the whole, though, I think I'm going to prefer the Gerber.

 

[NutSAK]

Unfortunately, you would really have to know how much current the Yuji pulls in the circuit to determine how it has affected runtime.

Or, you could compare the current at the tailcap on a stock vs. modded light.

 

[NutSAK]

That thread also touched on the great Gerber vs. CMG controversy: whose Infinity is better?

I had a CMG for a while, and now i have the Gerber I just modded. Even aside from the ease of modding, there are two things I prefer about the Gerber:
1) The tail-cap does a very good imitation of a push-button momentary on when you twist it almost on and back off 1/8 of a turn;
2) The CMG was a battery-crusher, with no springs. That also means it was *not* a good choice for using AAAs in a pinch--you'd need some sort of extender/converter. The Gerber has the springs on both ends, which means that it eats AAAs right away, without needing any modification or addition. In a backup light, that's a very good feature!

But I know a lot of people loved the old CMG and its tank-like build. I did too. On the whole, though, I think I'm going to prefer the Gerber.

Yes, you pretty well covered my thoughts, as you saw in that old thread, plus the tail-stand ability of the Gerber, while still maintaining a lanyard hole. There's no doubt that the CMGs were pretty much indestructible, and that's really the only advantage they had over the less robust (but still very good) built Gerber, IMO.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Yeah, I suspect that even the less-robust Gerber would do pretty well in run4jc's AAA demolition derby challenge.

If only I had a rock tumbler....

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Thanks for that thread-link, NutSAK!

Question for you electronics experts: when I switch out the LED, how much does that affect run-time?

I could imagine two answers:

A) no effect: the driver outputs the same current, and it is up to the LED to make more or less light with it.
B) some effect: the driver responds to the load on it, so if the new LED draws more (or less) current, then the runtime will drop (or extend).

I switched from whatever the stock purple spotty monster is, to a 5600k Hi CRI Yuji that was sent to me by K2-bk-bl-rd. Here are the specs from the Yujiintl website:

Nominal Wattage: 0.06 W
Rated current: 20 mA
Forward Voltage: 2.7 - 3.1 V
Luminous Flux(5600K): 6.6 - 8.0 lm

Since it says it puts out about 8 lumens, and the Gerber claims to put out 8 lumens as well, then maybe it's about the same power consumption, and so the same runtime? Maybe?

If the Vf is lower then more current will flow and runtime will drop with higher light output. If the light is regulated then there is 2 more things to consider
1)voltage regulation means higher current to lower Vf LED along with higher output of light
2)current regulation means same current to lower Vf LED but output will increase due to higher lumens/watt (more efficent LED).

Typically if the LED is not regulated you will see runtime about the same with more runtime that is useful at lower levels of output as the more efficient LED will output more light with less power (and lower voltage).

 

[lampeDépêche]

If the Vf is lower then more current will flow and runtime will drop with higher light output. If the light is regulated then there is 2 more things to consider
1)voltage regulation means higher current to lower Vf LED along with higher output of light
2)current regulation means same current to lower Vf LED but output will increase due to higher lumens/watt (more efficent LED).

Typically if the LED is not regulated you will see runtime about the same with more runtime that is useful at lower levels of output as the more efficient LED will output more light with less power (and lower voltage).

Thanks for this!

The trouble is that I do not have the relevant figures for the *old* LED, i.e. the one that Gerber stocks. (And I gather that they have stocked different emitters over the years). I can say that their current 5mm is a fairly ugly bluish-purple with a very narrow angle--design to be impressively throwy, but not at all to my taste.

I don't know whether the Gerber's driver is regulated at all, much less do I know whether it is current-regulated or voltage-regulated. Sorry--just ignorance on my part.

If we operate on the assumption that they did the cheapest thing, I'm guessing that we won't go too far wrong....

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Thanks for this!

The trouble is that I do not have the relevant figures for the *old* LED, i.e. the one that Gerber stocks. (And I gather that they have stocked different emitters over the years). I can say that their current 5mm is a fairly ugly bluish-purple with a very narrow angle--design to be impressively throwy, but not at all to my taste.

I don't know whether the Gerber's driver is regulated at all, much less do I know whether it is current-regulated or voltage-regulated. Sorry--just ignorance on my part.

If we operate on the assumption that they did the cheapest thing, I'm guessing that we won't go too far wrong....

I seriously doubt their driver is regulated as Gerber lights were around the time of the first mag LEDs nothing was regulated in the boost category that I've heard of. I'm betting the LED in those lights were about half to 1/3 as efficient as LEDs made today so at the same power you should see about 50% more output or so.