9V SureFires... Which one?

[signals]

Well, I've got a bunch of LED and Luxeon lights now, and it occured to me the other day that I don't have any incandescant flashlights left. (Canabalized them all...)

So I'm looking for a GOOD example of an incandescant flashlight to add to the collection. I really want something that will seriously out-bright and out-throw my Lambda Illuminator (which I don't even have yet ;-)

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be happy with anything other than a SureFire, and since I'm looking for massively bright, it looks like one of the C/D/Z3 series would be appropriate and whithin my measily budget. Sure wish I could afford an M3 or M6... I might just have to delay the purchase for a while and get myself an M3 in a month or two, but I'll never be able to justify the expense of an M6...

So, anyway, I just can't seem to figure out what the difference between the Z3, D3, and C3 lights are. As far as I can tell, the only difference is a slight difference in the shape of the body, and the presence or absence of a pocket clip. Is this really all there is that's different between the three?

I'm looking for a light to be used outside, in the wilderness, at night to light up things that are too far away to be illuminated by Lambda's Illuminator. Should I just be patient and get myself an M3 in a couple months, or do you guys think a C/D/Z3 9 volt light would be a big enough step up over the Illuminator?

-Kevin

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wait and get the M3. If you get 9P,C3 or Z3 right now, you will end up buying M3 later. Trust me.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by signals:

So, anyway, I just can't seem to figure out what the difference between the Z3, D3, and C3 lights are. As far as I can tell, the only difference is a slight difference in the shape of the body, and the presence or absence of a pocket clip. Is this really all there is that's different between the three?

-Kevin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's about it

 

[GeoffChan]

Get the M3

You'll be kicking yourself if you dont.

:d

Geoff

 

[Size15's]

Yes, the differences between the C3, D3 & Z3 Series are mainly body features.
All come with the standard P90 Lamp, LockOut TailCap & Anti-roll "Hex" Bezel with Lexan Lens.

The D3 has a PocketClip. Available in Black.


The Z3 has a CombatGrip which is adjustable, and a TailCap Lanyard. Available in Black.


The C3 has both a PocketClip and a CombatGrip (non-adjustable). Available in Black or HA.



The M3 is a whole new ball game. I suggest you save for it.

Al

 

[brightnorm]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Size15s:


The M3 is a whole new ball game. I suggest you save for it.

Al<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Signals,

I agree with Al that in toughness, survivability, and technomassive aesthetics the M3 is king of the 3x123's, a truly superior light.

However the D3 (9P) will give you almost identical lumens (possibly minus a very small % because of supposed superior light transmission of Pyrex over Lexan, though I have yet to see the tests and figures that prove this, including PK's spec. site).
It is also more than adequately tough for non violent use, though the M3's lamp is more likely to survive a hard drop.
Best of all it is significantly smaller, lighter and sleeker than the M3. I have the original 9P which is my favorite, and a D3 from which I've removed the clip plus an old original round bezel with which I've replaced the hex bezel.

The 9P (or the "retro-D3") is so small and light that you can easily EDC it in a slim SF holster, and with a (short burn) P91 you have the equivalent of a junior M6.

When you speak of wilderness use I can't help but notice that you mention the Lambda and a 3x123 Surefire, neither of which is a long run light (I understand that the Lamba is good for about 1 1/2 hrs) How are you meeting your long run needs, with that bunch of LED's that you mentioned at the top of your post?

The smallest and lightest 3x123 lumen- equivalent (approximately) that will provide a three hour run time is probably the SURGE, although we don't normally think of it as either small or light.

You didn't specifically mention the term "long throw", but rather someting that will "seriously outbright and out throw" your Lamba. I take your term "seriously" seriously. The Surge meets those criteria. However if you want a truly long throw light in a 3x123 or even 2x123 light you have several choices.

The smallest, lightest and cheapest truly long throw lights are the ASP TRIAD (TACLITE) and the TACM III. Both are only 2x123, but pack a long throw punch far superior to ANY SF 2x123 or even most 3x123 lights, unless those are turbo equipped, which brings you to your second alternative.

Two relatively small turbohead lights can fulfill the need for a "reach out and touch someone" light. The D2(6P) with the SRTH (LPS) 2.5" turbohead and N1 lamp projects a round, perfect beam of considerable power. However, the smallest and lightest turbohead light that throws a beam of truly remarkable power and projection is the D3 with that same turbohead using the N2 lamp. This light is virtually the equivalent of the Ultrastinger in a much shorter and lighter package. You can read about it and this subject in general here:

<A HREF="http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001613" TARGET=_blank>SUREFIRE
TURBOHEADS</A>

One other non turbohead light that throws approximately as far as the ASP and TACM III, but with a run time similar to the Surge is the UKE SL4, which uses four C batteries. Its 6 3/8" length is about the same as the Surge, though it is a bit more bulky, and weighs considerably more than the Surge ( 15.3oz w. batteries vs. 11.6oz). I have holster carried both lights and I must say that the less than 4oz difference becomes a noticeable factor after a few hours.

Brightnorm

 

[DonL]

Brightnorm, an excellent post.

From what I've heard about the TacLite, it certainly does seem to be highly under-rated. The nickel version is pretty hot looking, too. JMHO.

Shy of Turbo-ing a 2X123 SF, I'm really tempted to try out a TacLite.

That being said, having both an M2 and an M3, I have to say that the M3 with the HOLA does indeed produce some serious light. For "reach", though, the Turbo is the upgrade of upgrades.

I've ended up putting together a kit for my M2 with currently an A-19 adapter, a P90 and a P91 bulb. With the same "platform", I can run a P60, P61, P90, or P91. My next purchase is going to be the Turbo, which then allows the use of the N1 and N2 LAs, as well as, IIRC, the MN10 and MN11 from the M3.

This lets me leave the M3 strictly as a "bump in the night" light, and the M2 as a play toy and working light to combo up as I might need.

There's alot of versatility built into the SF line, I think it would be fun to putz around with.

So, cost wise, if you're not sure about jumping right in to a 9V Surefire, you can always build up a damn good light as you need to or want to.

 

[lightlover]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brightnorm:
... supposed superior light transmission of Pyrex over Lexan, though I have yet to see the tests and figures that prove this, including PK's spec. site).
...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brightnorm,
PK's site is clear on this, Lexan being rated at ~88%, and Pyrex at ~95%. What is it that you are anxious about or have trouble with ?

lightlover

 

[Sean]

I also suggest the M3, the lamp assemblies produce bettery quality beams (IMO) and plus, I like it better.

Then you can start saving for a Turbohead for the M3! For that extra "reach"

Even without the T-Head you will be amazed at the range of this light with the MN11 lamp.

 

[signals]

Thanks for the responses everybody... I read web page after web page after archived post after archived post yesterday, and couldn't get nearly as much info as this one post on CPF got me!

Brightnorm, I will be using a Luxeon Star MiniMag and/or the Lambda Illuminator, my Arc AAA, an LED area light, and hopefully some sort of bright SF. For longevity, I carry extra batteries in my pack. Lithiums are pretty light, and all of my lights can run on lithium batteries. I am into hiking and camping, and for the most part, we've ususally made camp by the time it's dark. I won't need more than a couple of hours of light on any given night... I also never go out there alone, so whoever I am traveling with will usually have some lights too.

Now, if I was going on a long trail hike and it was going to be days before I could re-fuel, I would want something with better battery life...

Anyway, I plan to carry one of the Luxeon lights as a "walking light" and when I need to see something far away, I will momentarily switch to the SF. The 1 hour or 20 minute runtime will not be a big problem because I don't intend to use the SF as a constant on light. That's what the LSes are for. They're just not bright enough to light more than the immediate area around the trail.

And I think I probably knew this when I posted, but you all have reinforced it: I will be waiting until the wallet is a little thicker, and getting an M3. I think FC had it right, If I buy a D3 or something, I'll just have to buy the M3 later ;-)

Thanks!
-Kevin

 

[signals]

Oh, one more thing...

Some web searching seems to show the cheapest price on an M3 is at BOTACH.

I obviously don't want to do business with them after reading the horror stories floating around on this board.

Does anybody have a reccomendation of a SF dealer who has the opposite reputation? Someone who people tell *GOOD* customer service stories about? I'd be happy to pay $10 or $20 more to make sure that I actually get the product I ordered ;-)

EDIT: The following post seems to have answered my question: Low prices on Surefires

-Kevin

 

[signals]

Whoa, I didn't notice this... I just saw the detailed specs on an M3 and it says "Approximate Lamp Life: 30 Hours." Is this a mis-print? Can this actually be true? I've never owned a high output, high quality incandescant light before, so I don't have much experience with them, but isn't this exceptionally short? I'll be replacing bulbs in this thing faster than I replace batteries in some of my LED lights.

I suppose It will take me a lot longer to get to 30 hours than I expect on an M3 because it's far too much light for most flashlight tasks. It will be a "specialty" light and I suppose 30 hours worth will probably last me for QUITE some time...

(Or is 30 hours the average time before someone drops it on the concrete?)

-Kevin

 

[Quickbeam]

Heck, 30 hours is pretty good! Your average maglight bulb is only designed to last about 20 hours - any more than that and you got a good deal!

 

[signals]

See, I figured I just didn't know what was what. 30 hours just seemed so small.

Last summer I took a 2D maglite with me on tour with "String Cheese Incident." (If you are curious, ask me in e-mail.) I had probably had the light for 10 years before we left. I've never replaced the bulb. We probably ran a dozen sets of D cells through the thing while we were on the road, and last I checked, the light STILL worked, on it's original bulb... (It's half modified for a Luxeon Star now though, so who knows if the bulb works..)

Ok, so I'm not so afraid of the bulb-life anymore. Thanks. I'll probably order an M3 on payday (Friday) even though I can't afford it

Thanks for all of the great advice and info, everybody. You'll probably have a new SF fan on the CPF by next weekend.

-Kevin

 

[DonL]

The only thing I would be concerned about is how quickly you want one.

All that red print at the bottom of the page would prompt me to call first to see about their stock or back-order times. Depending on what you hear or how badly you want one, you may decide to shop around some more or elsewhere.