A new Lithium ion hybrid for cold?

LED Monkey

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I know extreme cold is not a li-ion batteries best friend but I just saw a Nitecore 18650 battery model NL1829RLTP 2900mah 5A that says it's specially designed for cold and it can power up devices in temperatures down to -40F. Is anyone familiar with this battery? A new hybrid chemistry perhaps? Sounds interesting. Little by little making battery progress.
 

keithelliot99

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[FONT=&quot]The NITECORE NL1829RLTP is a revolutionary battery designed with a built-in micro-USB charging port, making charging easier than ever! No need for an extra charger as this battery can be charged directly using a standard micro-USB charging cable. Simply plug the battery into an available power source and a red indicator light under the + pole will turn green upon completion. Alternatively, these batteries can still be charged on an external charger if desired. [/FONT]
 

LED Monkey

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Actually I've seen several other brands of batteries that have the charging feature in different sizes too, that is not the part of this battery that I find nearly as interesting. Nitecore may have done a good job adding a charging feature, adding a protection circuit and button top and properly wrap the battery, but if the bare cell has been formulated to function better in extreme cold I do see that as a step forward in the battery technology.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Nitecore doesn't make batteries. They re-wrap them. You'd have to know what the underlying cell is, to know what the chemistry is. It's probably nothing unusual. Likely, just a low internal resistance chemistry like INR or something. I haven't used any lithium-ion cells down to -40C (also -40F), but I've used them down to -30C and the Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6 works fine. I can't recall if I tried the GA or 35E. The ones that didn't work well were all old Samsung 22F laptop cells, obviously not high-drain.

I very much doubt the Nitecore batteries will last as long at -40 than they do at room temperature. If they're lithium-ion cells, they're going to lose a lot of capacity in extreme cold, at least until they warm up from use.
 

LED Monkey

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Nitecore doesn't make batteries. They re-wrap them. You'd have to know what the underlying cell is, to know what the chemistry is. It's probably nothing unusual. Likely, just a low internal resistance chemistry like INR or something. I haven't used any lithium-ion cells down to -40C (also -40F), but I've used them down to -30C and the Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6 works fine. I can't recall if I tried the GA or 35E. The ones that didn't work well were all old Samsung 22F laptop cells, obviously not high-drain.

I very much doubt the Nitecore batteries will last as long at -40 than they do at room temperature. If they're lithium-ion cells, they're going to lose a lot of capacity in extreme cold, at least until they warm up from use.

I am aware Nitecore does not make batteries/cells and neither do most of the other branded batteries (KeepPower, Vapcell, Efest...) you see on the market unless they are sold with the original wrapper that have not been rewrapped. And I'm sure they will not have the same capacity as they will in room temp. But they are touting them as a low temperature high performance battery, so I really don't know if the manufacturer has changed up the chemistry for these cells to specifically perform in colder environments then other cells. INR chemistry cells have been around for a while now and I've not seen anyone advertise them as "specially designed for freezing temperatures" -40F=-40c . Advertising shenanigans ? Or something new?
 
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WalkIntoTheLight

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I am aware Nitecore does not make batteries/cells and neither do most of the other branded batteries (KeepPower, Vapcell, Efest...) you see on the market unless they are sold with the original wrapper that have not been rewrapped. And I'm sure they will not have the same capacity as they will in room temp. But they are touting them as a low temperature high performance battery, so I really don't know if the manufacturer has changed up the chemistry for these cells to specifically perform in colder environments then other cells. INR chemistry cells have been around for a while now and I've not seen anyone advertise them as "specially designed for freezing temperatures" -40F=-40c . Advertising shenanigans ? Or something new?

I suspect it's just marketing. Probably a better cell for cold than Nitecore's other offerings. Likely just due to lower IR. There's zero chance that any manufacturer is specifically making special cells for Nitecore, so these are just off-the-shelf offerings. Best way to find out is to unwrap one and see what the cell is underneath.

The -40 claim is probably stretching what lithium-ion can do, but do they state a capacity at that temp?
 

LED Monkey

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No word on capacity at -40 but they say they are 2900mah 5a dis chrg . E cars lose a good deal of capacity in extreme cold and battery manufacturers are trying to produce new batteries/technology to deal with extreme temps. Maybe Tesla would be interested with these batteries (I better put lol here:grin2:) Oh yeah, they also cost $30.00 for one 18650 , ouch!
 

LED Monkey

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Lithium "primary" batteries have a operating temperature range greater than lithium ion. All batteries lose performance as the temperatures reach colder/hotter conditions, but lithium primaries do better then other chemistries.
 

LED Monkey

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WalkIntoTheLight

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Thanks for the links, yeah that's the one in the review and probably the Panasonic NCR18650F with some embellishments on the Nitecore specs. Pany has it listed down to -20c

Yeah, no surprise they're BS'ing the specs. Also, lygte tests indicate the battery has to heat up before performance gets decent. And that's just at -20C air temp, not anywhere close to -40.

$30 ???!? Save yourself some money, and pick up six Samsung 30Q's for the same price. My bet is that they'll do just as well.
 

LED Monkey

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Actually I did just pick some Q30's in December $5.5 w/free shipping. I'm not really looking to buy any batteries at the moment but I'm always looking for any battery improvements, new tech, new types and so on. I haven't seen these advertised before so I wasn't sure if they were some kind of newer cells being released. And I'm much more likely to buy from companies that are straight up with their product claims. And they would have to be some magical batteries for me to pay $30.00 per cell. I still have some GA's from 2 years ago that are still going fine too, LG's HG2, Pany and more.
 

DIWdiver

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According to the 30Q data sheet, allowable temperature range for charging is 0-50°C and for discharging -20 to 75°C.

Nitecore says the "usable power" at -40°C is 70% of the rated 2900 mAH, with a 585 mA load. 1450 mA load is "N/A". Gotta love how in the same sentence they refer to the capacity as both power and energy! No doubt they actually mean capacity, as the power and energy would both be notably less.
 
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