A Tale of two ROPs

dulridge

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
557
Location
Aberdeen, Scotland
Mods please move, I thought I was posting in incandescent lights.


A while ago I built a 6D ROP using cheap 5000mAh NiCd cells. The higher capacity NiMH cells are not all that easily available here and are rather expensive. I used the original KD aluminium reflector which only just passes the ROP bulbs (The central hole is small) but it is still on the original bulb despite 3 complete charge/discharge cycles. It gets hot enough to melt the solder connecting the bulb filament to the casing so I've had to resolder it - I used ROHS lead-free solder which has a rather higher melting point and thus far has given no trouble. Obviously also a non-plastic lens was fitted.

IMG_0676.jpg


Last month with the toy budget I bought a pair of the KD unprotected D cells (which take forever and a day to charge up on a WF-139 charger which needs watching as it will overcharge these cells (Pulled them off at 4.23V) which it does not do with smaller capacity unprotected cells. The KD cells need magnets to contact one another let alone make contact with the Mag switch. Later version of the KD reflector looks to have about a half inch hole. Again a glass lens.

IMG_0680.jpg


Now an ROP bulb is an ROP bulb I thought and both should give pretty much the same voltage (And therefore current) when freshly charged.

When I compared the two side-by-side it made the 6D look like its cells were flat. Both Mags have had the switch resistance fixes done and the spring (Have a shorter spring on order for the 2D) resistance reduced.

So here's the beamshot. I thought I'd get a smaller lighter ROP high with a slightly shorter runtime - both the NiCd and the LiIon cells are rated at 5Ah bu the NiCd rating is genuine on testing them. I don't have the equipment to test capacity of lithium cells but others have said their capacity at a 4A drain is below 4000mAh.

The lithium one is about 60% brighter according to my photographic light meter. I'd just charged both sets of cells and the D NiCds are capable of at least 12A on a flash test (12A is as far as my meter goes). Looks like they don't hold their voltage all that well under load. That would be a lot of work to test and I haven't the time just now.

The lithium one is on the right. Both are focussed to their tightest spot at the 8' height of my study ceiling. Note the 2D spot is a LOT bigger. Some playing in Photoshop will probably show that it is less well focussed. I don't have a wide enough angled lens to capture all of the beams at 8 feet.

IMG_0673.jpg
 
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I think the reason that makes the 6D dimmer than the 2D are batteries...
maybe thay are not able to run the bulb @ 4,5 amps of ROP high...
 
I think the reason that makes the 6D dimmer than the 2D are batteries...
maybe thay are not able to run the bulb @ 4,5 amps of ROP high...

They are running about 4.2A when freshly charged, the Li D's about 4.35A. At the moment 3.7A but i used the 6D last night. Flash amps

9.27
9.29
8.76
9.45
9.65
10.35

No. 3 clearly needs charging or replacing so pull out another cell.
10.09

Time to charge them some more. Pull out other set. 3.92A draw which implies a voltage sag to 6V from LuxLuthor's excellent tests (http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748). I will experiment farther with a set of Sub-C cells that are supposed to hold their voltage at up to 30A. Need to charge them first though. The Li cells hold about 7V (4.35A).

Here's a link to Lux' very useful ROP table. http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-HROP.jpg

Will revise the figures when the cells are fully charged.

It isn't actually a problem - in many ways (other than portability) the 6D is a more practical device and it still outputs a LOT of light - about 600 lumens, say 400 torch lumens as opposed to the lithium 1000ish lumens - say 700 torch lumens.

The lithium is a lot lighter and smaller, but these are unprotected cells so nobody but me is going to get to use it - I'll lend the 6D to anyone who wants to play.

I was just a bit surprised by how big the difference was.
 
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maybe the cell#3 was defective or have had some problems...try to compare lights when 6D is full charged with the new cell...:thumbsup:


I know that li-ion are dangerous...:shakehead
 
I have a similar set-up to your 2D except I have an FM (I think, its been a while but I know its not a KD) MOP reflector and 2 of KDs D-cell L-ions. I did the switch and the spring also. The thing is very white and bright however it exploded (yes, exploded) my first ROP-Hi bulb. The bulb had about an hour on it with 18650 cells before using the D-cells and the cells were at about 4.20-4.21V when it happened. I don't know if it was coincidence or if it is just that close to the edge with these batteries. Time will tell. I put a new ROP-Hi in it but haven't used it much since.
 
I've only ever owned 2 ROP high bulbs - one hasn't yet been through a full battery cycle, the other has been resoldered twice and has had something like six hours of use.

After recharging all the cells - the lithium cells to 4.17V and the 6 NiCds to 9V (Immediately after pulling from the charger.)

There is now much less difference in brightness, it is not nearly as clear now, but the lithium one is still brighter. It pulls 4.40A from the cells, the NiCd pulls 3.85A which gives from Lux' tests means about 1040 lumens (6-700 torch lumens) from the lithium cells and around 600 lumens from the NiCds. This sis odd, it is now drawing less current than it did last night. Time to do some careful cell testing and figure out which of the 12 cells will behave best. This will likely take some time.

So now off to bodge up an adaptor to use a 6 Sub-C pack. And find a 6D length stick to attach the +ve wire to. Time to play... :)

TwoROPs.jpg


Couldn't find a female Tamiya connector so dug out another convenient light. The sad bluish thing in the middle is a Romisen RC-F4 which is actually a pretty bright LED. Again the lithium celled one is on the right.

ROPRC-F4ROPLi.jpg
 
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The NiMh batteries might have higher internal resistance. The extra contact points of the batteries(2 cell vs 6 cell) might also be producing resistance.
 
The NiMh batteries might have higher internal resistance. The extra contact points of the batteries(2 cell vs 6 cell) might also be producing resistance.

I'd hope contact resistance wasn't too bad - I clean the ends with a glassfibre pencil when the start to look dull. I'd guess it is the internal resistance of the cells - they were cheap

I'll bodge up an adapter to fit the 6D so I can try a set of Sub-C NiMH cells that claim to hold voltage at 20 or was it 30 amps. If only I could find where i put the female Tamiya connectors.
 
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