Action Light

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 10, 2001

I can't report the measurements taken by my equipment, that is; my eyes and brain, but I wouldn't discount the quality of information that is somehow assimilated in there..I think the photos are valuable sources of information, especially ones with more than one flashlight (since conditions can vary from picto pic..)...come to think of it, Stingmon, and Brock; how about another 'group photo' of all your flashlights, but this time, with them all turned on!? ...mmm, got batteries?

George Orl · Sep 10, 2001

I've had my action light (now v2 I guess) on order for over a year now. Like you guys I want the brightest, smallest and most durable LED light on earth. The Trek 1900 is tempting me because of its lower 1/2 the price of Action Light cost. This is a fun hobby for me as well and I have become know as a flashlight/LED nerd to some of my friends. But friends and even my wife appreciates she can always depend on me having excellent light when we need it. Love my E2 and many photon2s I have/given away. On my short list is Trek 1900, ARC-LS and Dominator 10x surefire.
Brock, is 1900 much brighter than ARC-LS? Wander how the V2 action light will measure up with the standard batteries and new LEDs?

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 10, 2001

2d_edge - I think you may be judging this light on the wrong criteria. For a caving light, brightness is good, but reliability/durability are ESSENTIAL. A caver depends on his lights (at least 3 completely independent light sources) like a warrior depends on his weapons - his life depends on them.
How serious are cavers about this? Some will seek out different brands/batches of batteries for their redundant lights just in case there were production problems with one batch.
I can't vouch for the Action Light (I've never used or even seen one), but the intent (absolute reliability/ long battery life) is certainly correct.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 10, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by weremala:
2d_edge - I think you may be judging this light on the wrong criteria. For a caving light, brightness is good, but reliability/durability are ESSENTIAL. A caver depends on his lights (at least 3 completely independent light sources) like a warrior depends on his weapons - his life depends on them.
How serious are cavers about this? Some will seek out different brands/batches of batteries for their redundant lights just in case there were production problems with one batch.
I can't vouch for the Action Light (I've never used or even seen one), but the intent (absolute reliability/ long battery life) is certainly correct.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to the Action Light Family Product Description

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
You are on a Search and Rescue team looking for a lost child in the mountains at night...

You are deep in a cave system, hours from the nearest entrance...

A storm overpowers your sailboat and forces you to abandon ship...

You are providing medical care on a cold night. Is the patient's skin pale from the cold night air or is the skin cyanotic from a life-threatening condition?

You are cleaning up a hazardous chemical spill. The power is off so sparks cannot ignite the flammable vapors...

Your combat team is taking an enemy-held building. You burst through the closed door into a dark room. Can you identify the real targets fast enough to take them out without harming the prisoners or being shot yourself?

You have the light that NEVER fails. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems Action Light is advertised as a light not specifically and specially for caving only.

Isn't it proper that it be looked upon not as a light for caving only?

- verge -

PeLu · Sep 10, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
Collecting flashlight is just a hobby for me and to spend 100k-bucks or mega-bucks for laboratory equipment ....is beyond my financial capability.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To start with, you just need an instrumnet to measure illuminance (lx). I'm shure you can get this for some $50 or less on hamfeasts (or even new). Make something you can turn around where you can attach your light, so that it's lens (or whatever corresponds to it) is at it's axis. Having your lightmeter at a defined distance (not too close, maybe 2m or more would be fine). You also have to take care that spilled light does not influence your measurement too much. Several apertures, which are very black, will do it. The you turn your light and get your readings for every few degrees (depending on what is, flood or spotlight). You can easily draw an polar diagram with this data and probably get an rough estimation about the luminous flux (lm). And be shure to have the light fed by a 'standardized' power source (a regulated power supply should alse be eay to get on hamfeasts).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Now as flashlight collectors we often ask each other about lightbeams of different brands because we often would like to have an idea of its lightbeam, or at least we can picture in our minds its lightbeam.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but you get only an idea, and pretty often it is misleading. Like in the case where you overexpose your photo (I mentioned already). Keep that in mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Numerical data is fine but do you think its going to be of good use to the ordinary guy?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually you are measuring numerical data, but your measurements output is a diagram, which says more than 1000 photos. Reading a diagram is easy to learn and I'm shure you guys could do it very fast. Just compare the first few diagrams with you actual lights. For a row of numbers, you are very correct. This is only for people who are working daily with it and are number-addicted .-)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Were the laboratories and organizations who have access to or the capability to acquire sophisticated light measuring equipment interested on flashlight lightbeams? I doubt they would do so without expectations of big-bucks compensation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necesarly: I hope to get access to a technical's school equipment, as I'm not working (commercially) in the electronics industry now for decades .-)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
And because lightbeam is a visual perception, a picture of lightbeam speaks more than lightbeam technical data.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is, that your camera's perception is so much different from your eye's. And, BTW, it's pretty easy to make misleading photos.

Again: What's your camera's dynamic range?

But that all is a process of evolution. 80 years ago, only engineers knew what a 50HP car will do. Nowadays everybody knows and probably most caraholics can read a torque diagram. You guys have a pretty high knowledge about flashlights, light distribution and beam quality. It would be very valuable for all of us to have it also documented in technical data. Making 'standardized' photos will be the first step. But keep in mind that a photo may also contain misleading information (and be worse at no photo at all).

PeLu · Sep 10, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
It seems Action Light is advertised as a light not specifically and specially for caving only.

Isn't it proper that it be looked upon not as a light for caving only?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and no. As it was planned (and it still is) that more different ActionLights come out, not all of them are aimed at the miner's/caver's market. This text was written when it looked like the other models will come out soon. As we all know, all the former available models (one and two piece) are not really good to hold in your hand. I have now PCBs at home for a rectangular 48 LED model, a round 31 LED model (that's the Maglight conversion kit) and a small 7 LED model. But even the 48LED model will be not that bright (if it ever comes out, I think it will become obsolete due to the Luxeon LEDs) than a higly overdriven 30 LED light.

Brock · Sep 11, 2001

The trek 1900 is the brightest LED light I have seen in person. The Arc LS is close to the 1400, just a bit tighter focus and a bit brighter, but over all less light then the 1400. Now I am not knocking the Tektite lights but I would not use them in a situation where lights are life/death. The 1900 I have tends to flicker and then you have to adjust the head to get the light to come back on. If you have read Craigs review of the Tektite light he mentions the switching on/off is done by a piece of metal rotating and cutting in to the back of the circuit board. They have improved how this is done, but it still wears on the circuit board itself every time the light is switched on and off. That is one of the things I like about the Lightwave 4000, a true switch.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 11, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
To start with, you just need an instrumnet to measure illuminance (lx). I'm shure you can get this for some $50 or less on hamfeasts (or even new). Make something you can turn around where you can attach your light, so that it's lens (or whatever corresponds to it) is at it's axis. Having your lightmeter at a defined distance (not too close, maybe 2m or more would be fine). You also have to take care that spilled light does not influence your measurement too much. Several apertures, which are very black, will do it. The you turn your light and get your readings for every few degrees (depending on what is, flood or spotlight). You can easily draw an polar diagram with this data and probably get an rough estimation about the luminous flux (lm). And be shure to have the light fed by a 'standardized' power source (a regulated power supply should alse be eay to get on hamfeasts). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure forum members would be delighted to see how you measure lightbeams from 2 different flashlight with many rings of various number and intensity around a hotspot with that instrument?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
Yes, but you get only an idea, and pretty often it is misleading. Like in the case where you overexpose your photo (I mentioned already). Keep that in mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

May not be perfect but I strive to be fair and close to true by selecting the one setup from series of samplers, sometimes 10 to 20 photos using different camera settings, without software retouch to be as close to true, and photographing Lightbeams at one time with one camera setup and setting for all of them.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
Actually you are measuring numerical data, but your measurements output is a diagram, which says more than 1000 photos. Reading a diagram is easy to learn and I'm shure you guys could do it very fast. Just compare the first few diagrams with you actual lights. For a row of numbers, you are very correct. This is only for people who are working daily with it and are number-addicted .-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to see diagram of TEC-40 or SL4AA lightbeam.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
Not necesarly: I hope to get access to a technical's school equipment, as I'm not working (commercially) in the electronics industry now for decades .-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's good news! Eagerly awaiting lightbeam test results from that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
The problem is, that your camera's perception is so much different from your eye's. And, BTW, it's pretty easy to make misleading photos. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. My eyes have wider scale in recognizing wide range of different tones of bright and dark parts of lightbeam. I'm still in the process of learning and developing how to do this right and I hope I'm getting better. Btw, do you know pro photog who shoots flashlight lightbeams whom CPF members who photograph lightbeams can learn from?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
Again: What's your camera's dynamic range? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to the manual my Kodak DC290 can be adjusted from -2.0 to +2.0 exposure value (EV) in 0.5 EV increments.

If you're referring to this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp, as I said above still learning and hope to get better.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote:
This text was written when it looked like the other models will come out soon. As we all know, all the former available models (one and two piece) are not really good to hold in your hand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The webpage http://www.hdssystems.com/ActionLight.htm shows pictures of the 1 and 2-piece models on top and Action Light Feature Comparison at the bottom, so I don't think HDS is telling viewers that they have other flashlight models in mind page for those performance claims other than Action Lights shown on the that page.

- verge -

PeLu · Sep 11, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
I'm sure forum members would be delighted to see how you measure lightbeams from 2 different flashlight with many rings of various number and intensity around a hotspot with that instrument? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also easy solutions for this: You integrate over a specific angle. Anyway, together with a photo it will say pretty much. In a polar diagram, irregularities are even more impressive (in a negative sense).

a dream: it would be perfect if anybody around here could make a homebrew project for such a device.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>[QB]
I'd like to see diagram of TEC-40 or SL4AA lightbeam. [QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, me too. It will be much more impressive than the photo. You could even say how much it differs in which change of an angle (most people could do that). And therefore you could say if it is hard on your eye or not.

PeLu · Sep 11, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
your camera's dynamic range?

If you're referring to this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0011/00111608dynamicrange.asp, as I said above still learning and hope to get better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the latter one. At the lowest 'film speed' good cameras seem to have a 1:500 range. That's better than I expected. But you will probably need several 'standards'. Different ones for two or three 'brightness classes'. And the gamma curve may be an issue, too.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 11, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
The webpage shows pictures of the 1 and 2-piece models on top and Action Light Feature Comparison at the bottom, so I don't think HDS is telling viewers that they have other flashlight models in mind page for those performance claims other than Action Lights shown on the that page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
Yes, they have. Especially the Maglight conversion kit should have hit the market one and a half year ago, but it was delayed like the other products. When the V2 circuit is finished, all products should come out compareable fast (the circuit is very universal). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're saying those claims are not for Action Light featured within the same page of performance claims;

How come Maglite conversion kit was not mentioned even once on that page?

Here's a webpage with pretty big performance claims of a flashlight along with;

1. pictures of Action Light on top of the page

2. photo of Action Light illuminating a streambed

3. Action Light Feature Comparison at the lower portion of the same page

4. no mention of "Maglite Conversion Kit" in that page, not even once that "Maglite Conversion Kit" was mentioned, nor a link to a "Maglite Conversion Kit" is prominently shown on that page.

So.... those advertised claims are for "Maglite conversion kit"?!

So HDS Systems expects people viewing that page to be mind-readers too!?

Btw, that "Maglite Conversion Kit" I think is great idea. Do they have a prototype already?

- verge -

PeLu · Sep 12, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
The webpage shows pictures of the 1 and 2-piece models on top and Action Light Feature Comparison at the bottom, so I don't think HDS is telling viewers that they have other flashlight models in mind page for those performance claims other than Action Lights shown on the that page.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they have. Especially the Maglight conversion kit should have hit the market one and a half year ago, but it was delayed like the other products. When the V2 circuit is finished, all products should come out compareable fast (the circuit is very universal).

PeLu · Sep 12, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
You're saying those claims are not for Action Light featured within the same page of performance claims;

How come Maglite conversion kit was not mentioned even once on that page?

Btw, that "Maglite Conversion Kit" I think is great idea. Do they have a prototype already?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The listed possible uses (caving, military, rescue)are focused on all this products together and also having (for example) the conversion kit in mind. It makes not really a difference, because no ActionLight is available now (neither V1 nor V2).

The conversion kit will use the same power supply, as this one is universal. The only difference is the programming (only slightly different) and the LED module. The LED module itself I have at home, for example. But first they will finish the 'cavers' version and even another cavers version afterwards. There is not even a release date yet for the conversion module, in no way before spring.
The module's peak brightness should be in the same class as the SureFire LED module (50-60lm).

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 12, 2001

The listed possible uses (caving, military, rescue)are focused on all this products together and also having (for example) the conversion kit in mind. [/QUOTE]

I envy the mind-readers, and tough luck for me because how would I know that those performance capability claims are not for Action Light only but also for some other models not even introduced or mentioned on the website?

Where can I buy a crystal ball? Or, I better call the tarot-card reading hotline for other info?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
It makes not really a difference, because no ActionLight is available now (neither V1 nor V2). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does make a difference because consumers who have bought or will buy Action Light were exposed to performance (or as you say "listed possible uses) claimed by that webpage, and Action Light is the only product offered by HDS Systems along with those performance claims.

Action Light V1 and V2 as clearly inferred by that page is not for caving only and should be appreciated accordingly.

- verge -

The_LED_Museum · Sep 13, 2001

For those of you waiting for the battery burn-down test... sorry I just haven't had it in me to sit down and do this given what has happened over the last several days.
I haven't felt like doing much of anything - be it testing flashlights or kicking over abandoned plumbing fixtures.

I will try to get at least the Action Light tests started by this coming Sunday or Monday however; depending on the severity of my post-birthday hangover. :-O

Tomorrow I will be attending memorials, Saturday's already taken (actually, this depends entirely on how well the US mail service has recovered), so Sunday is probably the earliest I could really start in earnest.

I apologise for the delay. I'm sure *SOMEONE* probably wants their baby back pretty soon.

Free · Sep 15, 2001

DB37 VS Action light

Picture at the bottom of the page

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 16, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stingmon:

I apologise for the delay. I'm sure *SOMEONE* probably wants their baby back pretty soon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--that's OK Stingmon, proceed at your convenience

**DONOTDELETE** · Jan 11, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stingmon:
If anyone is interested, I have one of these things now, and will for the next few days or maybe a week. Then Brock will get a crack at it.

I'm still in the process of building the page, but there are a couple of photos available now at http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/hds.htm

When it gets dark, I'm going to try to shoot some comparison pics showing flowering plants. Since one of the selling points is accurate color rendition, let's see how it does against a mag lite.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
....so you think you guys have had enough time with my Action Light? I mean, really, I think five months is enough time to conclude any test and take scores of pictures...I'd like to send you guys more 'unique' flashlights, but Brock, do ya think I can have my ActionLight back first? :> )
Please?

I want my, I want my, I want my Action Ligh
t.

Brock · Jan 11, 2002

Ok, so you will have to tell me trick to get it back in the box

Craig did it and I didn't think to look when I opened it up. I promise it will be on it's way home within a week, send me your snail mail address via email

**DONOTDELETE** · Jan 12, 2002

Done.
I don't know what to say about the trick of getting the Action Light into the box. I just fooled with it till it fit in. (the way I always do:> ) You can keep the box, and use another, if necessary.
Maybe we can use this as a right of passage for forum membership; "When you can place the Action Light in the Fuente Signature cigar box, grasshopper,
you will be a flashaholic :> )"

Action Light

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Newly Enlightened

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashaholic

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

*Retired*

Enlightened

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Flashaholic

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest

Similar threads

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

Retired

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE

DONOTDELETE