Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Any chance of getting a Quark Mini 123 on CR123/RCR123s? I'm thinking of getting one, but I'll probably wait 1-5 months until the neutral XP-Gs come out.

I tested the Quark Mini 123 with a Primary:
Quark Mini 123_________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary________________142.3_________________1 sec
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________138.5_________________30 sec
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________1 min
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________2 min
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________3 min


MrGman tested the same one I have with a IMR 16340, but they are not designed or made to run off li-on or iMR rechargeables.

Here are MrGmans readings:
Quark 123 Mini_High_________200__turn-on_____________1XIMR16340_________________________ ________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________192__60 sec_____________1XIMR16340________________________ _________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________190__120 sec____________1XIMR16340_________________________ ________,

 

[recDNA]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Any chance of getting a Quark Mini 123 on CR123/RCR123s? I'm thinking of getting one, but I'll probably wait 1-5 months until the neutral XP-Gs come out.

I wonder if Quark drivers drove the XP-G at higher amps if the tint wouldn't be so green?

 

[joshconsulting]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I wonder if Quark drivers drove the XP-G at higher amps if the tint wouldn't be so green?

The XP-G is 'specced' for 350 ma with a max of 1.5a; RCRs drive it around 1.25a, CR123s around 900-100 ma - it should be more then enough current, if anything they're being overdriven. I think it's simply a product of the manufacturing process; it's entirely possible that 4sevens is buying cheaper binnings with more variance and less pure white to cut costs down to the $50 mark. XP-G lights are still pretty hard to find, the costs don't seem to be dropping as much as expected.

@bigc: It would be awesome if someday you got numbers for a K-106 on a 14500. I measured 1.3a at the tailcap, which for a Q5 would be somewhat less output then a 1.25a XP-G. But a bad driver and poor reflector (my K-106 is heavily textured) could cut down output significantly.

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Thanks to JustinCase and Josh I have took the leap of faith in search of more lumens and purchased some Arctic Silver 5. I purchased mine at my local Fry's Electronics and it is $9ish with tax and you only get a tiny tiny 3.5grams😱

I put that compound around the Nailbender P60 SST-50 2.5A pill.

I can tell you that I felt the bezel noticeably warmer (which it certainly did) at 3 minutes, but I rather show you how it affected lumens.
I used the same IS Sphere, the same DBS Dereelight Hosts, and the same IMR 18650. I know it is not much gain, but every little helps.


Dereelight DBS hosts____________ _Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A_____________1 IMR 18650_______________________499.2_________________ 1 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________433.1_________________ 30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________423.8_________________ 1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________416.9_________________ 2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________413.8_________________ 3 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_____________ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A____________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5____498.5_________________1 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______440.8_________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______436.2_________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______429.2_________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______426.2_________________3 min

 

[saabluster]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I know it is not much gain, but every little helps.

I have always been in the "every little bit helps" camp. I just love seeing hard facts to back it up. Thanks!

 

[joshconsulting]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

So show 😱 I'm excited to learn.

Also, remember that thermal paste takes some practice and experience to do correctly. I've done it 30+ times myself, and I'm still learning. The general rule is that less is more and you never, ever let it touch your hands. Wash your hands in rubbing alcohol (preferably 99% isopropanol), and completely clean the threads on the pill and reflector with a soft, lint-free cloth and alcohol. Apply a small amount and use a finger covered in saran wrap to spread it around the threads. Then screw it in and unscrew it a couple of times so it's evenly distributed before tightening it very snugly.

If you really want the very best results, use Arctic Silver MX-3 instead of AS5, but it's expensive (20-25$ per tube) and HORRIBLY hard to put on. It clumps together and is sticky; it's more like taffy then thermal paste. I've done it many, many times and it took me over 45 minutes to recoat my graphics card last night after a benchmark run. I'm not even sure I could apply it effectively to the threads.

AS5 is nice in that it's partially liquid. If your new and having a hard time with it, heat a cup of water in the microwave and soak the tube in it for a few minutes before using it - it'll make it more fluid and less viscous.

Just thought I'd post this for people new to thermal paste and wondering how to apply it or what kind to buy 🙂

EDIT: Saw you edited in results. Not bad, but I personally think you would see a bigger difference when holding it in your hand. For your listed results, the greatest thermal barrier is still between the flashlight body and the ambient air; air is a good insulator, so the body has a hard time transferring the heat away and a lot of heat has to be transferred from the pill to the body to get the temperature high enough to transfer the heat to the atmosphere. If you were holding the light, your hand would provide a thermal pathway, and the thermal gradient between the P60 pill and the reflector would be of greater significance.

Testing with a fan or other means of active cooling would be a way to test this theory.

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I decided to put the Arctic silver 5 to one more reading to see if it is consistant using another hosts.

MrGman measured my SST-50 P60 NB 2.5A in my Solarforce L2 hosts. The hosts had the tactical Solarforce clickie in MrGmans tests.

I used a Surefire 6P hosts w/ Solarforce L2 bezel with UCL lens. I used an IMR 18650 and a Surefire twistie stock tail cap. I put more cooper tape and litteraly forced it in the 6P. I put more Arctic Silver too then tested it for OTF lumens and here is my results. I did notice the tube by the tailcap was warm and not just the bezel😀😀😀😀😀

Surefire 6P w/UCL lens___________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A_____________ 1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5 ____505.4_________________ 1 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____465.4_________________ 30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____454.6_________________ 1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____443.1_________________ 2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____436.2_________________ 3 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____430.8_________________ 4 min


Previously in MrGmans test:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229135
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____470__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____450__20 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____444__30 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____430__60 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____416__120 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____407__180 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____405__240 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.

Oh and I did test the SST-50 in the 100% same format as MrGman did. In my 10.5in IS Sphere this is what I got. Pretty much identical except my turn-on lumens were higher, but you can at least see how much better the overall performance is with the Arctic Silver 5.
1 sec = 500
30 sec = 435.4
1 min = 422.3
2 min = 410
3 min = 403.1

 

[joshconsulting]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Hardly a fair test with the 6P vs a L2P, might want to try the 6P without AS5 to see if the extra mass is what's causing the boost instead of the AS5.

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Hardly a fair test with the 6P vs a L2P, might want to try the 6P without AS5 to see if the extra mass is what's causing the boost instead of the AS5.

You are correct.. I can do the L2 test again, but this time add AS5 to it like I did with the 6P. :thumbsup:

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I have always used AS5 in my builds, that plus a couple dabs of CA to hold the parts together, since AS5 is not an adhesive.

Hope it works for you as well as it has for me.😉

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

This is the 1st time I use AS5 and I been putting on my Test Subjects by using pliers to hold the pills. The only time I touch that compound is when I screw it in, but clean my fingers on the outside of the reflector. Of course I then wash my hands clean of all AS5.

This is how my P60 Pills look when I am done and how they look when on the DBS Turbo bezel. Any advise is welcomed. I don't know if I am using too much, but it makes my lumens remain high throught the runtime:twothumbs

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I wanted to let others see how much Arctic Silver 5 has helped me. First; let me explain that I use as many insider pointers (learned here at CPF).

• My bezels are Solarforce w/flat stainless ring
• My bezels are equipped with UCL AR coated lens
• I use 3M cooper around the P60 modules
• I use top quality cells AW 2600mAh or IMR 18650
• I will from now on use Arctic Silver 5 when possible.

Now here are my latest findings:
Surefire 6P w/UCL____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650________________________ 489.2________________1 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________439.2_______________ _30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________435.4_______________ _1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________410.0_______________ _2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________398.5_______________ _3 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL___________ Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_______________1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 553.8________________1 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________510.0________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________494.6________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________480.8________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________473.1________________3 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________466.1________________4 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________463.1________________5 min
Dereelight DBS______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_____ 530.0________________1 sec
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 493.1________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 486.9________________1 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 480.8________________2 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 473.8________________3 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 468.5________________4 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 465.4________________5 min



Previously; I had tested my Dereelight P60 drop-in regulated at 2.1A. I tested with just cooper tape in my 6P bored +18650 ext. I re-tested it with Arctic Silver 5 and the initial lumens went way up. Look how the lumens don't drop as much too. I think this AS5 helps the P60 drop-ins the most, but it helped my DBS bezel lego's a bit as well.



Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.______Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 463.1________________1 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 416.2________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 393.8________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 365.4________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 348.5________________3 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.______Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5__ 523.1________________1 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____467.7________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____463.8________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____456.9________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____453.8________________3 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____450.8________________4 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____448.5________________5 min






Dereelight DBS hosts_________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________ 470.8________________1 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 420.8________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 414.6________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 406.9________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 402.3________________3 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A___________ 2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5__468.5________________1 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 428.5________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 426.9________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 423.1________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 420.0________________3 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 417.7________________4 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 416.2________________5 min

 

[csshih]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

being a tinker, i'm not sure I want to open your DBS anymore

 

[joshconsulting]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

*GULP*

That's a MASSIVE amount of AS5. For a CPU, which has an area of roughly 2 square inches, I use a dollip about the size of a grain of rice. And a reflector\P60 pill is a lot smaller then 2 square inches. AS5 is designed to fill microscopic gaps in the surface, and can actually act as an insulator if it's too thick. I've fried a CPU by putting too much of it on.

But, since it seems to be working, it must still do the trick. Since flashlights deal with far less heat at lower temperatures with rougher construction, maybe you do need more to plug gaps. Still, it's a lot

Either way, glad to see it's helping quite a bit in P60 format.

 

[saabluster]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I wanted to let others see how much Arctic Silver 5 has helped me.

BigC there is something wrong in that 6p comparison. AS5 will not affect the turn on numbers. It won't have much affect at 30 sec either. Something is amiss.

This is pure speculation but maybe it is helping electrically.:shrug: FYI that is way way way too much AS5 on that. I don't think is will cause a problem like it would with a CPU but there is just no need for that much.

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

holy crap... thats a LOT.

Something strange is going on, it shouldn't have that much of an impact on instant peak readings, when the LED temperatures are cool and equal.

oops saab beat me to it.

 

[MrGman]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

I was thinking the same thing as well, that the electrical conduction must be getting better to cause turn on readings to get better like that. I could see that with that generous amount that the conduction into the host shell inner wall is being improved somewhat with all that Silver paste. Goes to show you how resistive a mechanical contact is even with generous surface area.

but also if he went from a solarforce host with the clicky switch to a real Surefire 6P twistie tailcap switch that uses all that surface area of the spring loaded plate for the electrical return contact versus the little spring loaded internal switch contact of a Solarforce unit that is probably 100 milliohms of contact resistance, that would make a difference also. It all adds up.

 

[bigchelis]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Thank you all for the tips. I guess it was alot since I ran out now


When I screw in the MC-E 2.1A pill by Dereelight in my P60 reflector a lot of it gutted out. I used the left over to put around the cooper tape and outside the bezel too. It is not pretty, but as many of you saw the performance was better. In fact, one peculiar thing is that I notice the tailcap is warm too.😕

Krammer5150 we need to test your 2.5A M bin P60 DX drop-in before and after we apply AS5 to see if you get the same results.

Here is how it looked during testing in my 6P with twistie tailcap:

 

[kramer5150]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

Yuk... LOL I don't know if I want to do that to my light.

You should also be aware that it gets really runny when it warms up. its like dried toothpaste when cool, but quickly liquefies when warm. I dont know what would happen if that stuff were to run down on the +B.

I think there are metallic particles in AS5, that might scratch the UCL coating of you try and wipe it off your lens. I am not sure if its good for the threads either.

I only use a tiny dab of it between the LED and brass pill.

:green:

 

[FroggyTaco]

Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

AS5 is slightly capacitive so it could be allowing more current draw as well the improved heat sinking.

Josh..you have to remember the clamping pressure associated with CPU to HSF/WB mounts. These drop-in are not being pressed together any where near what a CPU is.

IIRC, one of the beast thermal greases for large "voids" is one of the ShinEtsu variants.

p.s. Josh isn't it Arctic Cooling MX-3 instead of Arctic Silver? Even since IC7 Diamond has been released I haven't looked back on my PC builds so I haven't watched any recent developments.

Travis