Air compressors

[tino_ale]

About air plumbing : I JUST discovered that water plumbing are fully compatable with air plumbing

The reason why I didn't know that is because where I live sizes are not displayed in fractionnal inches. I just found out there are actually equivalence :

26 x 34 = 1"
20 x 27 = 3/4"
15 x 21 = 1/2"
12 x 17 = 3/8"

I haven't found 1/4" equivalence ?

BTW I don't know what the "metric" numbers mean ? 😕
1" is 25,4mm wich is neither 26 nor 34, so I don't know what they mean.

One thing to note is that water plumbing is NOT tapered threads but cylindrical (straight) threads, so they are not compatable with NPT threaded tools and equipments.

 

[wquiles]

About air plumbing : I JUST discovered that water plumbing are fully compatable with air plumbing

I am not picking on you, but that statement is NOT accurate at all. Not all water plumbing is fully compatible with air plumbing.

You need to be careful about the material and rating of the water plumbing before you consider it for air. Water plumbing might be rated up to 200-300 psi, but it is the PVC/plastic type, this pressure testing applies ONLY for liquid, not for air. This topic has been heavily discussed in detail here in this sub-forum and Barry has some interesting real-world experience of what happens when plastic water plumbing is used for air and then 3-5-10 years down the line it explodes - very scary stuff 😱

Will

 

[tino_ale]

Yes I should have said I'm speaking about brass fittings, ball valves etc.

Are copper tubings for water supply strong enough for air application ?

 

[wquiles]

Ahh - sorry if I was too hard on my reply. Yes, the brass/copper fittings and valves are perfectly fine for air. The complete professional air plumbing setup at my old lab (where the Quincy I bought was used) was all done with copper tubbing and brass fitting/valves 😀

 

[precisionworks]

Are copper tubings for water supply strong enough for air application ?

Most people consider soldered copper & solid brass the absolute best way to install an air system. The soldered joints are the weakest link in those systems, so some installers will use solder containing 2% silver for additional strength. Takes a bit more heat but a silver soldered joint should not fail in a lifetime or three :nana:

 

[65535]

Or a properly brazed joint. Good enough for anything.

 

[tino_ale]

Hey guys,

Can someone tell me how I'm supposed to flush the water out of such an air filter/regulator ?

The base of the regulator is the inlet and directly bolted to the compressor reservoir.

edit : oh and BTW I'm asking because I just got a Michelin VCX 100 (100 liters, 10 bar, 8.5CFM@90psi, twin cylinder belt driven). Hottest deal I've found, 300 euros for a week. The noise it makes is still significant but so much less ears hammering than my previous mono 50l... 🙂

 

[65535]

Looks like the filter would just drain into the tank, so you would want to drain the tank, it will have a valve on the bottom which I would recommend replacing with a ball valve and appropriate plumbing.

If there is no valve I would consider returning the compressor.

 

[tino_ale]

Hi,

There is a drain on the tank, which I've already replaced by a convenient ball valve 😉

I'm just wondering how the filter/separator can drain in the tank by itself ??? Separators usually have a small valve at the bottom of them that you press to drain the water. How is this one working ?

 

[precisionworks]

The base of the regulator is the inlet and directly bolted to the compressor reservoir.

Your photo shows a regulator (pressure controller) ... it is not a FR (filter-regulator) nor is it an FRL (filter-regulator-lubricator). You'll want to install a filter directly after the regulator so that the air is filtered before it can get into an air tool.

The Motor Guard M60 (or M100) is one of the very best available: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WZYKAE/?tag=cpf0b6-20

 

[tino_ale]

The product description says "epurateur" so I assumed this device was an air filter + regulator combo like one of these. When I say filter I mean the vortex type wich is supposed to seperate some water out of the air and block some particles with a bronze sintered element. These seperator/filter normally need to be drained as the water will accumulate in the receptacle.

That being said, my unit has the inlet at the bottom of it so I must say I do not see how it could be a vortex type water trap/filter. As you say it is probably only a regulator, in that case the product description would be more than misleading, plus I'm not sure why it has this shape (like a water collector shape)

The motor guard is a pure filter without any water seperation capability. As far as my understanding goes., the ideal chain would be :

water trap (aka water separator/filter with a sintered bronze air filter element) > pressure regulator > air filter (aka motor guard) > air lubricator (if needed)

 

[precisionworks]

The motor guard is a pure filter without any water separation capability.

Although it does function as a submicronic particulate filter, it also absorbs moisture until the filter element is saturated. We change the filter element every day & it's pretty moist after just eight hours of use. The moist filter is allowed to dry & can then be reused.

Motor Guard cautions against leaving a filter element in the housing for more than a few days, as the moisture plus any contaminants will eat away at the powder coating inside the housing.

When I had a plasma cutter, the HTP MaxDry system was used. It consists of a filter-regulator, then a coalescing (oil separating) filter, then a silica gel desiccant bed. I added the Motor Guard right after the desiccant bed, but it was always dry because of all the upstream filtration and drying.

http://www.htpweld.com/products/accessories/a4.html#HTP%20Max%20Dry%20#25310

 

[metalbutcher]

Anyone have any opinions on Sanborn compressors? I'm looking at an 80 gallon vertical unit that is sold by my local home center. I believe it's going for about $850.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[precisionworks]

You'll want to look more closely at that unit ... an 80 gallon is usually two stage and priced around $1200-$1300. Single stage units run as little as half that price.

Look for the maximum pressure rating - 175 psi indicates two stage, less than that is single stage.

Look also for the cfm rating, as a 5hp motor will produce about 14-17 cfm.

A better known brand is Ingersoll-Rand, and the price isn't much more for their compressor. Their 2340L5V (14cfm, 5hp, 60 gal, two stage) sells for around $1200 with free shipping.

The 2340N5V is the next step up (14 cfm, 5hp, 80 gal, two stage) and sells for $1400.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318501_200318501

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318461_200318461

 

[metalbutcher]

Barry,

Thanks for the info. I'll check out the Ingersoll-Rand since I drive by a Northern Tool store to and from work so it would be convenient to get one from them.
I want to eventually set up a small sand blasting cabinet so I'm assuming the 80 gallon would be the better choice for that. Other tools will be basic air tools like a die grinder.

Thanks again,
Ed

 

[precisionworks]

I'm assuming the 80 gallon would be the better choice

+1

Even though both I-R models have identical cfm ratings, the larger tank is more desirable for blasting or running high cfm air tools like large grinders. In my shop, three 60 gallon compressors (plus a couple hundred feet of air piping) give me over 200 gallons of storage.

 

[metalbutcher]

Would L type copper pipe be good stuff to run air lines? The run would be about 50'.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[precisionworks]

Type L copper is well suited for low pressure air. See this booklet for info: http://www.chem.mtu.edu/~fmorriso/cm3215/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

For home shop use, copper is the nicest (and most costly) solution, because it never leaks when properly installed. Black Iron Pipe (BIP) cost less & is faster to install as the ends are threaded - the tapered threads plus Teflon pipe tape give a seal that is almost perfect. For long runs, where pressure drop dictates using larger sized piping, 1" or 1.5" BIP is the clear choice. For shorter runs, Type L copper is a good choice in 3/4" diameter.

 

[metalbutcher]

So is 50' considered a short run? In which case I can get by with 3/4" pipe.

Ed

 

[precisionworks]

If it were me, I'd use copper for a 10' or 20' run, and BIP for longer runs. No matter what the material, there is a loss of flow capacity as the length of the run increases. My "trunk line" runs 70' (above the finished ceiling) and is 1.5" BIP. It really easy to plumb in laterals and drops, and put in drops where ever you may need them in the future ... terminate them right below the finished ceiling and hook them up later as needed. Nothing is worse than having to redo air piping a few years after it was installed.

Here's a nearly ideal piping layout:http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Files/3KDR3KDS/$File/DryAire_piping_layout.pdf?OpenElement