Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels........

luxlover

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Hello to all of you SureFire KL1 bezel (finned style) and/or Arc LSH bezel owners, who have modified them with a Luxeon III emitter. I recently modified both my bezels.

The first mod was the LSH-S bezel, which now has a TW0H Luxeon III emitter in it, along with the regulation board current tweaked to 611mA. I am using the Arc 2AA battery adapter, along with two 2,300mAH NexCell AA NiMH batteries. Right after the mod with the light on, I measured the current draw at the batteries with my digital multimeter, and it was 660mA. I did my first runtime test last night. I placed the light horizontally on a silicone foam pad, and aimed a small Honeywell portable fan at the bezel to keep it cool. After 1 hour and 20 minutes, the light started to rapidly flicker and then it turned off. I turned it back on, at which time it flickered and turned off again. I felt the bezel, and it was a little warmer than warm, but not quite hot. I was surprised at this, since the fan should have pushed the heat away from the bezel, and the excess metal in the long battery tube should have drawn the heat away from the emitter. After the light shut itself off, I checked the batteries with the light off and on. With it turned off, the total voltage of the batteries was 2.20 volts. With it turned on, the total voltage of the batteries was 1.93 volts. O.K, the batteries were very low. But I don't think that the light should have turned off at that level. Why didn't it go into the so called "moon mode", and continue on at a lower output? I returned the batteries to the light after a 10 minute rest. Now it turned on, and continued to run with slowly decreasing output for another 5 hours, at which time I shut it off because the output was no longer "usable." I am guessing that the shutdown was due to the Arc's thermal cutoff circuit, and not the battery voltage deficiency. Any ideas?

The second mod was the KL1 bezel, which now has a TW0J Luxeon III emitter in it, along with the regulation board current tweaked to 700mA. I am using two Dspeck 123 battery tubes, an E1e body, a Z57 tailcap, and the same NiMH batteries as in the LSH mod. The current draw with the light on was 1.32A, twice that of the LSH. I also did a runtime test on this light, with the same setup used on the LSH. It ran for 2 hours and 14 minutes with some reduction in output, before it started flickering. It continued to run and flicker for another 5 hours. I shut it off at that point, because the output was no longer "usable." During the phase before the flickering, the light was just slightly warm to the touch. I attributed this lack of heat buildup to the accumulated metal mass of the bezel and body components. So why did it start flickering after it dropped down in output? Why was it flickering for 5 hours, instead of dropping into "moon mode?" Any ideas?

I was surprised to find that despite the slight difference in Vf of each emitter (~0.25 volt according to the Luxeon AB21 pdf file), and a different current setting, the 17mm reflector used in both lights has made the beam patterns and output levels almost indistinguishable. I love the potential of both bezels. The KL1 has an added advantage, since it can run on 2xAA, 1x123, 2x123, or 3x123 battery configurations. Talk about flexibility!

Any answers from modders would be greatly appreciated.
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Luxlover, glad that KL1 turned in such a good runtime result! I wonder which super awesome modder did that one? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

As far as the LSH, my guess is that it was never in regulation in the first place. That 660mA reading sounds too low for a light that's getting no more than 2.4V input, loses some energy in the converter itself, and wants to power the TW0H at 611mA. It just doesn't seem to add up... at least, not at first glance! Others can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It's happened before! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Assuming the LSH isn't in regulation when running with 2AA NiMH, maybe you're already in moon mode, believe it or not! The LSH was most likely optimized for a single 123 cell, which would stay around 3V until the tail end of its runtime, then simply wouldn't have enough current flow to drive the emitter very hard at ANY voltage. That's the thing about 123 cells; they basically lose current delivery capacity over time, not voltage. (Yes, this is oversimplified, but IMHO it's still basically true.) By the time the 123's voltage falls below the critical threshold, the current delivery is also hurting big time, leading to that dim moon mode we hear about.

Now replace the 123 cell with 2AA NiMH. These can pump out gobs of current for pretty much their entire service life, but their voltage is sitting perilously close to the edge for regulation... or in the case of the LSH, maybe already BELOW the critical threshold. In this case, though, they're still capable of delivering a substantial amount of current, so you end up not with a dim moon mode, but more like a bright "sun mode"! When they finally fade too far to deliver the goods, so to speak, the light simply goes out because what you saw WAS the moon mode.

Anyway, that's my theory. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

As for the KL1, seems like it's running in regulation, but you might be getting the extended flickering because the KL1 was no doubt designed for the power source to tank quickly once it started dropping in voltage... that's what 123 cells do. With the 2AA NiMH, though, they drop a little in voltage but hang out there for a while, and the flicker that might have lasted a minute or so on a 123 cell turns into HOURS of flicker with 2AA MiMH! Again, just a theory.

Overall, it sounds like the KL1 is the better choice for your 2AA NiMH setup given its 2+ hours in regulation. I'd put the 123 cell clicky tail on your LSH and enjoy the portability that light can give you... plus it'll probably run BETTER, all things considered, on the 123 cell than it does on NiMH. Hope this helps! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Thank you for the "Au Gratis Bump", PARDNER! It went South since 3/10, didn't it? I owe you one "bona fide" Bump!
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Hello Scott,

You should take another look at your theory...

A CR-123A cell under a 0.5 amp load has a voltage of about 2.6 volts (see the data in the "123 Battery Shoot Out" thread).

A NiMh cell under the same load has a voltage of about 1.25 volts. Two NiMh cells would give you about 2.5 volts, so the advantage of the CR-123 is only about 0.1 volts.

Tom
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Hello Luxlover,

I would suggest you run your tests again. Your numbers don't seem to add up very well.

If you start with a 2300 mAh cell and draw close to 700 mA from it, I would expect it to run about 3 hours. Yours ran for 1.33 hours which would indicate that there may be some other issues here as Scott has pointed out (voltage drop below regulation).

Your second run has the same 2300 mAh cells running for 2.25 hours under a 1320 mA load. That would indicate that the cells have increased their capacity to closer to 3000 mAh.

A second test should clear things up.

Tom
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Tom,
Good point on the minimal difference between "under load voltage" of a 123 and a NiMH. I measured 770mA from a 123 used on the LSH, and not 500mA. That would tend to drop the voltage of the 123 even lower. This would change the complexion of the entire deal. Note that my "under load voltage" at 660mA was only 2.20V, and not 2.50V as you suggested.

The calculated capacity of the batteries (done by my E.E buddy Joe), is not 2,300mAH, but rather 2,000mAH. Therefore, 2,000mAH divided by the LSH's 660mA battery draw = 3.03 hours total runtime. In my second LSH runtime test done last night, I got 1 1/2 hours before it started to flicker, shut itself off, turned itself on a minute later, and run in "moon mode" until I detected an unusable light level and low level flickering 6 hours later. Does this mean that one set of AA batteries can give me 7 1/2 hours of usable light?

As for the first runtime of the KL1, I already informed Scott to hold that 2 1/4 hour figure in abeyance, pending the results of my second test. Now that I did two runtimes on the LSH, I know what I should be doing to maintain accuracy. So, I will be doing the second runtime test on the KL1 this evening, and write my results ASAP after that. Don't leave town until you read my post, Tom!!!
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Tom, if someone's gonna set me straight on battery issues, you're the man to do it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
 
Re: Analysis of runtime for KL1 and LSH bezels....

Wait a min, it's 700mAh to the emitter, right? So shouldn't the converter more outta the batts to make up for voltage?
 
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