Good morning.
I just spent a tough two days on this forum. I am a police officer in the largest metropolitan area in my state. I have primary jurisdiction in an area that contains buildings, open fields, city streets, etc, and I do a good bit of police work. I have been on 3rd shift (2300-0700) for the last 8 years. For the last 20 years I have had some sort of Surefire with me at all times while working. I drink the kool-aide, but that is OK. My faithful 8AX gave out on me this week. The battery died, and I found out that one of my co-workers broke my charger (damage hard to see, that's what I get for leaving it in the briefing room). The last time my charger was broken it was easy to fix, not so this time. So I have a dead 8 year old B90, and I start doing my homework. A new charger, and battery, would be about $95. Then I find out the spec on the bulb, and take mine out and find that it is the older one, not the current one. While doing so, bulb gets dropped and now I need a $40 bulb. Not a good day out.
Despite its shortcomings my 8AX has been great. 110 lumens for 50 min/charge was adequate, but not great. Like many of my brothers I have been on hour long multi mile canine tracks for bad guys, but I always tucked my backup light in my pocket before we started, and even then, very rarely ran out of juice on my AX. I am not in search and rescue; I use my light tactically, and teach its tactical use. Frequently the 50 minute use will get me through a week. I prefer not to use light for normal, day to day tasks, if there is ANY ambient light out. The bulb, cited here as being rated for 40-50 hours of use has been replaced once in 8 years. It began to appear, that even using Flea Bay, it would cost nearly as much to get my light running as to buy a new one. I got a good light.
So I began to investigate. There was little to nothing that could be done to customize/upgrade what I had. So I had to start from scratch. I came here and looked at all the "what should I buy" threads and realized most of the advice is given by well meaning folks who may not be up on what I consider a good work light. So I sat down and looked at what I needed, in order of importance.
I would appreciate a long run time, but based on my 8AX experience, it was not vital. Was ambivalent about light levels, and strobe ability, as I have been happy with the light my 8AX put out
I would have preferred American made, leaving to my knowledge Surefire and Eagle. Surefire's offerings in rechargeable LED were thin without mods, and expensive. Eagle's medium setting was not powerful enough and its high setting was too powerful. I actually thought that a G2 or G3 LED with rechargeables was how I was going to go. Malkoff's conversion products would have been ideal, but this was time sensitive, and in addition to being expensive and having many parts out of stock, his website gave me a headache with what parts were necessary, and how you had to go over to this other section to order a necessary part to make the whole thing work. I am planning on getting one of his LED conversions for the 6P on my AR15, but that will likely be a phone call. Plus one of his conversions requires possession of several Surefire parts, and I am missing many of them. Heck, I believe even Surefire is using Chinese LEDs.
SureFire missed out on this round, because while reliability was number one, the other features did not appear to be there without custom work. Surefire is not on the cutting edge of the latest and greatest, but they cost more…Why is that?
Here is the example I use. I own my own patrol rifle, and people give me crap all the time because I spent $300 to make sure I had a dancing horse on the side of the gun. The department AR15s were bought at less than $800 each on the state contract, so they are the better buy right? In order to get and maintain government contracts (when they had the M4 contract) Colt needed a rigorous Quality Control and Assurance program. I am a certified armorer on the AR15 platform. Colt has 348 separate gauging stations on the assembly line, and each part and each gun are checked. Someone has to do the checking, and they have to be paid. My Colt 6920 is NOT Mil-Spec by definition, but I can tell you which parts are not, and how they can be brought to spec. Does that mean that I have a perfect gun, or that you cannot get a bad Colt? Of course not. But the department rifles, by another major manufacturer, do not go through that level of QC/QA. My rifle in the last 3 years has had about 6K rounds through it without a single problem. Two of the eight department guns in the field right now did not make it through the first 1K rounds without needing armorer level repairs. Another three had functional problems detected and corrected on an annual inspection before they had troubles on the range or on the street. Does that mean the other manufacturer only turns out crap? Nope, but with a lower level of QC/QA going on, your chance of getting crap is a bit higher. Five out of eight guns have needed repairs. That is better than 50% of my limited sample. I imagine that Surefire operates the same way. The QC/QA that helps ensure reliability costs money, and the confidence to give a lifetime warranty is the result.
I am very sad to say that I did not choose Surefire. Had this been a planned purchase I would have, and I can say that I would have a light that I would be very satisfied with. I picked the light that would allow me to have it in my hands days after the order, and required the least amount of compromise. Had I more time to shop I may have found something even closer to what I was looking for, but as I said, this was time sensitive. I have 5 lights in the car when I go to work, all but one Surefire, and NONE of them met the criteria I set forth to replace my AX with.
The winner was the Olight M20 Warrior Premium. With AW18650 batteries and charger, I came in under budget. I am willing to accept that it may not be the light I need, and make a planned purchase later of a customized SF light built to my specs. Based on only two days of research, this light makes the fewest compromises from my requirements. Not entirely happy with it on paper for a number of reasons, but willing to take the chance to see.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two. I chose fast and cheap this time.
Sorry for so many electrons and time wasted on this post, but I actually wanted you all to know how helpful you were from you previous posts.
Thanks again,
pat
I just spent a tough two days on this forum. I am a police officer in the largest metropolitan area in my state. I have primary jurisdiction in an area that contains buildings, open fields, city streets, etc, and I do a good bit of police work. I have been on 3rd shift (2300-0700) for the last 8 years. For the last 20 years I have had some sort of Surefire with me at all times while working. I drink the kool-aide, but that is OK. My faithful 8AX gave out on me this week. The battery died, and I found out that one of my co-workers broke my charger (damage hard to see, that's what I get for leaving it in the briefing room). The last time my charger was broken it was easy to fix, not so this time. So I have a dead 8 year old B90, and I start doing my homework. A new charger, and battery, would be about $95. Then I find out the spec on the bulb, and take mine out and find that it is the older one, not the current one. While doing so, bulb gets dropped and now I need a $40 bulb. Not a good day out.
Despite its shortcomings my 8AX has been great. 110 lumens for 50 min/charge was adequate, but not great. Like many of my brothers I have been on hour long multi mile canine tracks for bad guys, but I always tucked my backup light in my pocket before we started, and even then, very rarely ran out of juice on my AX. I am not in search and rescue; I use my light tactically, and teach its tactical use. Frequently the 50 minute use will get me through a week. I prefer not to use light for normal, day to day tasks, if there is ANY ambient light out. The bulb, cited here as being rated for 40-50 hours of use has been replaced once in 8 years. It began to appear, that even using Flea Bay, it would cost nearly as much to get my light running as to buy a new one. I got a good light.
So I began to investigate. There was little to nothing that could be done to customize/upgrade what I had. So I had to start from scratch. I came here and looked at all the "what should I buy" threads and realized most of the advice is given by well meaning folks who may not be up on what I consider a good work light. So I sat down and looked at what I needed, in order of importance.
- Reliable. I am a Surefire fan for a reason, and I realize that anything else will be a gamble. But, as we see below, Surefire met my needs about as well as most other contenders, that is to say barely acceptable at best, poorly at worst.
- Rechargeable (department does not provide CR123s for the X300s it issues, and I want to buy a suppressor for my AR15, probably an overpriced Surefire, and cost is an issue. I have a wife that is a full time college student and three kids).
- LED. I have broken bulbs. I know how much they cost. I have run incandescent lights and found fragile bulbs (one M3 I was issued not only broke the bulb but disassembled itself from the recoil of an AR15.) I like incandescent lights, but have only seen them get more expensive, not less, and I hope this light will last me 5-10 years.
- 100 lumens. I was willing to go as low as 80 (to include the Surefire LED) and as high as 130-150(to include the Light For Live and Pelican). Too low, and I can't see what I need to see. Too high and I can't see what I need to see. I do a lot of building searches, and white walls will dazzle you, let alone a mirror. After a field comparison I decided a X200A was more useful to me than an X300, despite having almost 2/3 less lumens. I also "accidentally" flash the eyes of drivers on every traffic stop. A 150 Lumen + light may cause some issues with that. In 12 years of this tactic I have not had a complaint. Too bright a flashlight might just bring that to an end and create another policy named after me, restricting the use of that particular light. While this will be a secondary light it needs to be able to fulfill the role of my primary light, a department owned Streamlight SL20.
- No Defensive Bezel. I have hit people with my 8AX, and been investigated and cleared for it. For on-duty use I found that the standard bezel is good enough, and I don't want a light designed to hit someone and cause damage. I can cause a lot of damage with a standard light, a clip board, or a pen. This is a huge issue, and kept me away from the Fenix lights. I have no problem with the defensive bezels on off duty lights, other than possibly tearing up clothes.
- Size. I found the 8AX to be a perfect fit in my hand, and in the pouch that I was using that was not designed for it. A similar sized light would be appreciated, as I don't plan on changing how I carry everything to support a new light. A little larger or a little smaller would be fine. Again a 6 volt Surefire was the smallest I was willing to go and the Pelican was pushing it at the larger end.
I would appreciate a long run time, but based on my 8AX experience, it was not vital. Was ambivalent about light levels, and strobe ability, as I have been happy with the light my 8AX put out
I would have preferred American made, leaving to my knowledge Surefire and Eagle. Surefire's offerings in rechargeable LED were thin without mods, and expensive. Eagle's medium setting was not powerful enough and its high setting was too powerful. I actually thought that a G2 or G3 LED with rechargeables was how I was going to go. Malkoff's conversion products would have been ideal, but this was time sensitive, and in addition to being expensive and having many parts out of stock, his website gave me a headache with what parts were necessary, and how you had to go over to this other section to order a necessary part to make the whole thing work. I am planning on getting one of his LED conversions for the 6P on my AR15, but that will likely be a phone call. Plus one of his conversions requires possession of several Surefire parts, and I am missing many of them. Heck, I believe even Surefire is using Chinese LEDs.
SureFire missed out on this round, because while reliability was number one, the other features did not appear to be there without custom work. Surefire is not on the cutting edge of the latest and greatest, but they cost more…Why is that?
Here is the example I use. I own my own patrol rifle, and people give me crap all the time because I spent $300 to make sure I had a dancing horse on the side of the gun. The department AR15s were bought at less than $800 each on the state contract, so they are the better buy right? In order to get and maintain government contracts (when they had the M4 contract) Colt needed a rigorous Quality Control and Assurance program. I am a certified armorer on the AR15 platform. Colt has 348 separate gauging stations on the assembly line, and each part and each gun are checked. Someone has to do the checking, and they have to be paid. My Colt 6920 is NOT Mil-Spec by definition, but I can tell you which parts are not, and how they can be brought to spec. Does that mean that I have a perfect gun, or that you cannot get a bad Colt? Of course not. But the department rifles, by another major manufacturer, do not go through that level of QC/QA. My rifle in the last 3 years has had about 6K rounds through it without a single problem. Two of the eight department guns in the field right now did not make it through the first 1K rounds without needing armorer level repairs. Another three had functional problems detected and corrected on an annual inspection before they had troubles on the range or on the street. Does that mean the other manufacturer only turns out crap? Nope, but with a lower level of QC/QA going on, your chance of getting crap is a bit higher. Five out of eight guns have needed repairs. That is better than 50% of my limited sample. I imagine that Surefire operates the same way. The QC/QA that helps ensure reliability costs money, and the confidence to give a lifetime warranty is the result.
I am very sad to say that I did not choose Surefire. Had this been a planned purchase I would have, and I can say that I would have a light that I would be very satisfied with. I picked the light that would allow me to have it in my hands days after the order, and required the least amount of compromise. Had I more time to shop I may have found something even closer to what I was looking for, but as I said, this was time sensitive. I have 5 lights in the car when I go to work, all but one Surefire, and NONE of them met the criteria I set forth to replace my AX with.
The winner was the Olight M20 Warrior Premium. With AW18650 batteries and charger, I came in under budget. I am willing to accept that it may not be the light I need, and make a planned purchase later of a customized SF light built to my specs. Based on only two days of research, this light makes the fewest compromises from my requirements. Not entirely happy with it on paper for a number of reasons, but willing to take the chance to see.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two. I chose fast and cheap this time.
Sorry for so many electrons and time wasted on this post, but I actually wanted you all to know how helpful you were from you previous posts.
Thanks again,
pat
