Any bulb for the SURGE that will permit lithium batteries?

[brightnorm]

The PT Surge is a great light, but frustrating because you can't uses Lithium AA's to extend its already decent runtime. I'm not very tech-oriented, but there must be SOME bipin bulb that could be used with 8 AA lithiums. Actually, the Surge is so bright that a slight reduction of lumens wouldn't be a problem, and the increased run time would make it a truly wonderful light.

Any ideas?Best regards,
Brightnorm

 

[Gman]

I keep seeing this point made here and on the Bright Guy website. I've also read of some failures that were attributed to lithium AAs, but there seems to be no definative testing yet done.

I've used AA lithiums in many brands of filament lights without problems and frankly, at this point, I don't see why they would be a problem in the Surge. The slight voltage difference shouldn't be an issue, but thats why I'm asking.

What does Brightguy base his warnings on? What does Princeton Tec say? As an EE, I'm somewhat curious as to the technical details.

Please educate me. Or maybe I'll just sacrifice my Surge for the cause.

 

[brightnorm]

I'm almost at that "Surge-sacrificial" point myself. But Gman, before you do anything drastic maybe you should take a look at "Can Lithium batteries really RUIN the Surge?", though I suppose you've already seen it

Come on, all you more knowledgeable flashaholics; show off your smarts!!

BN

 

[brightnorm]

PS, Gman,

Remember that the Surge takes EIGHT AA's, so perhaps 8 times that voltage difference is significant.

 

[Brock]

Ok, not wanting to burn out my light I tried it with 4 lithiums instead of all 8. The light is actually a 6v light, so you have two sets of 4. Now with 8 alkaline I got 1.1amps at 5.3v With 4 lithium I got 5.5 with 1.25 amps. That is 5.83 watts with alkaline and 6.875 watts with the 4 lithiums. I can imagine if I put 8 lithiums in ther the lamp would not last long. It would be really bright though.

 

[Gman]

Hmmm...fair nuff, Brock. Thanx for suppling some data.

But, the Surge is a series/parallel arrangment right? Seems that adding the other
4 batteries would not increase the voltage. (The current would stay the same.)

Since filament lamps typically fail on start up due to inrush, leaving it on countinuosly
isn't a good test. Would have to cycle it on and off and see if the lamp life is effected.
Maybe since the energy density of lithiums are so great, it doesn't fall so quickly under load and the inrush lasts longer.

Maybe this is the problem, the inrush spike is what kills it. I wish I knew more about the lamps technical specs. I think I'll take my lamp and cycle it on my regulated bench power supply set at the lithium voltage, without regulating the current. I'll then record number of cycles and total burn time to failure. I'll then repeat the test using alkaline parameters.

If it survives this, it will surely survive
in the torch. I wonder what is the "normal" lamp life and how they arrive at that?

I don't doubt the warnings are valid, but the engineer in me hates it when things are ancedotal.

 

[brightnorm]

Gman and Brock,

Assuming the Surge bulb blows out prematurely, aren't there other bulbs out there that could accomodate the lithiums?
Also, when Brightguy says 8 Lithiums will "ruin the lamp" perhaps they mean that literally; that the increased heat could damage the lens which is not designed for such high temperatures.

Gman,will you please post your findings as soon as you know?

Thanks,
Brightnorm

 

[Size15's]

As Alk AAs are so cheap? Why not buy more Alks?

I love the idea of using Lithium AAs but for flashlights... The Risk of a bulb exploding is too much. To be honest, I'm more worried that LiAAs may ruin my portable MDR (That's what I now use LiAAs for mostly)

I read somewhere that the first batches of Lithium AAs were much higher voltage compared with those around today. Maybe Energizer are working on them to produce a suitable battery?

Al

 

[brightnorm]

Hi, Size15s,

When a bulb "explodes", is there any danger to the user? Also, I thought that there is a vacumn inside a bulb, so that it would implode. Are these hi-tech bulbs different?

PS Brock and Gman,
I eagerly await the result of your tests.I guess in a few days I'll just try it myself. What's the worst that could happen?

Regards,
Brightnorm

 

[Gman]

I'll have to construct the test setup and then it may take days because I wont run it continuosly. I'll let you know as soon as it's done.

Halogen lamps, as well as many others, are under positive pressure, several times atmospheric. Unlike a "vacuum" lamp they do explode, rather than implode. Any time you handle such a lamp, especially the larger ones, you should wear safety glasses and never crush them without using caution.

In general, if it seems to put out more light than it should for it's size, assume it's a high pressure lamp because it most likely is.

 

[Gman]

Forgot to mention, I use Li AAs in all my electronic stuff, especially in my survival gear. It's not a problem becuase all these gadgets have regulation and the inrush problem isn't an issue as it is with a cold filament.

I doubt your Surge lamp will explode, thats very remote. It'll just blow when you turn it on after many cycles. If you decide to try it, will you run it contiuosly? I'd be interested to see if it handles that.

Off course, even if it does, it may well "flash bulb" on you the very next time
you turn it on after changing the batteries.

 

[brightnorm]

Thanks Gman

Very interesting. I'm still waiting for my Lithium AA's to arrive ($7.00 for a pack of 4 Energizers dated 2010 from Tim Flanagan at [email protected] .) I'll test it when I get a chance. Very busy right now.

Regards,
Brightnorm

 

[BuddTX]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
Ok, not wanting to burn out my light I tried it with 4 lithiums instead of all 8. The light is actually a 6v light, so you have two sets of 4. Now with 8 alkaline I got 1.1amps at 5.3v With 4 lithium I got 5.5 with 1.25 amps. That is 5.83 watts with alkaline and 6.875 watts with the 4 lithiums. I can imagine if I put 8 lithiums in ther the lamp would not last long. It would be really bright though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Brock,

Question for you. I am assuming that you put 4 lithium AA and 4 Alkine batteries in the surge?

Is that what you did? I just got my Surge and really like it!

 

[Brock]

Nope for my test I used just 4 lithiums. You know the more I think about it they should make a 4 cell version of this light that requires lithium cells, or would be much dimmer with alkaline. It should run about 40 to 50 minutes on 4 lithiums and weigh about 1/4 as much. Hummmmmm....

 

[Lux Luthor]

Brock,

I think the 40-50 min. runtime might be low. I was getting this with 4 NiMH, although it is subjective as to when the light really peters out. Lithiums should have a much larger charge capacity (although they will drive the light harder), but I still think you could get well over an hour.

I have a working prototype of the 4 cell Surge with the Tec 40 handle, but it's held together with "bubble gum". It's that wretched bi-pin to Pr base conversion that's holding me up. I finally got the guy at Carley lamps to waive the $50 minimum order, but then I find out they have onlt T2 1/2 sockets and no T1 3/4 for the Surge bulb.

 

[Brock]

Your completly right, I was thinking of the 1300mA in 123's instead of the 2700mA in the regular AA lithiums. So it should run about 90 to 120 min on 4 AA lithiums. I have often wished we could get a P60 in a 4 AA cell body and run it off lithiums...

 

[lemlux]

Lux:

Carley has PR bi-pin receiver bases that fit into PR sockets for the T 1 1/2 and T 2 1/2 sizes, but they caution not to use a bulb drawing more than 1.0 Amp. This would seem to limit the attractiveness of going this way.

Does anyone have an higher amperage alternative way of putting a T-1 3/4 Surge bulb, Scorpion bulb, Stinger bulb, Ultra Stinger bulb into a PR base?

Does anyone have a clever way to get one of the above Bi-Pin bulbs to fit the Energizer Double Barelled T-2 1/4 base?

 

[Bushman]

what about running 4 lithiums and 4 alkalines in a surge? almost 1/2 the weight and still get the long run time and the better brightness?!?
Any concern with mixing alkalines and lithiums?

 

[Lux Luthor]

lemlux,

I know about the Carley sockets, but I haven't gotten a hold of any yet. In fact, I was just thinking about this again. I was going to check some dimensions on the Carley site first, and then see if Tim carries these also. I'd rather use a bi-pin than a PR, since there's less chance of singing the reflector on the Tec 40. It's also easier to carry spare bulbs.

Bushman,

I think if you mix battery types like that, the Lithiums might try to charge the alkalines. Could create a nuclear explosion.

In fact, this is exactly how I planned to split the San Andreas fault a few years ago. Unfortunately, that plan was foiled.

 

[snake]

TEC40 OVER IMPACT,

wonder if...
Tec40 is PR base and Impact run LED, then should be bi-pin. Question is did impact allow a change in the LED (eg change color)? or the module is fixed ?
Anyone have a impact pls reply! or any suggestion for any 4AA using bi-pin will be welcome!
as I also want a SL scorpion bulb power by 4AA.
Many Thanks