Any of you had a "nerve block?"

[StevieRay]

Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

I had one yesterday for a pinched nerve. One of my discs (cervical) was pushing on a nerve and causing pain in my shoulder and arm.

I can tell some difference. they say it may take up to 2 weeks to feel the full affect. any of you expereinced this?

Steve

 

[Malpaso]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

I haven't, but would be interested in how it works for you. I have two bad disks L5 and S1. I'd be nervous (no pun intended) that the nerve block would take away enough pain that I'd be able to do something stupid, like play hockey again, and cause more damage. What did they tell you about it?

 

[LightChucker]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Yes, I had one in the lower back. It seemed to help, but does not cure the problem. You have to have it done indefinitely.

I have a prolotherapy treatment scheduled for next month. (Look it up through Google or go to www.getprolo.com .) Prolotherapy is actually supposed to cause your body to cure the source of the problem which is called ligament-laxity.

The good thing is that they virtually put you out during the treatment, so you don't feel any pain like you do with an epidural. The bad thing is that you have to pay for it out of pocket; about $250-500 depending on how much you want them to do.

Chuck

 

[StevieRay]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

[ QUOTE ]
Malpaso said:
I haven't, but would be interested in how it works for you. I have two bad disks L5 and S1. I'd be nervous (no pun intended) that the nerve block would take away enough pain that I'd be able to do something stupid, like play hockey again, and cause more damage. What did they tell you about it? [/
quote]

I will be able to tell how successful it was in a couple of weeks. My anethisologist who performed the proceedure says that there is about a 70% chance that it will work. also he will reccommend a physiotherapist that specializes in strengthening the back and spine. these exercises will bring more fluid into the discs and relieve the pressure on the discs.

The proceedure itself wasn't too bad . Your awake the whole time but they give you a drug called Versed to kind of put you in a twiight. proceedure took less than 5 minutes. From the time I got to the surgery center to the time I left was a total of about 3 hours. I am a little sore and still experience some pain. they do give you pain pills.

 

[StevieRay]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

[ QUOTE ]
LightChucker said:
Yes, I had one in the lower back. It seemed to help, but does not cure the problem. You have to have it done indefinitely.

I have a prolotherapy treatment scheduled for next month. (Look it up through Google or go to <a href="www.getprolo.com" target="_blank">www.getprolo.com</a> .) Prolotherapy is actually supposed to cause your body to cure the source of the problem which is called ligament-laxity.

The good thing is that they virtually put you out during the treatment, so you don't feel any pain like you do with an epidural. The bad thing is that you have to pay for it out of pocket; about $250-500 depending on how much you want them to do.

Chuck

[/ QUOTE ]


Chuck,

That sounds interesting and I will inquire about that when I speak to my DR.

Thanks

 

[gadget_lover]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

May I throw a note of caution in here? The prolotherapy web site says that the treatments cause local inflamation to provoke the body's healing repsonse. They also calim that insufficient blood flow to the ligaments and tendons is what causes them to heal slowly or not at all.

Prolotherapy uses a dextrose (sugar water) solution, which is injected into the ligament or tendon where it attaches to the bone. This causes a localized inflammation in these weak areas which then increases the blood supply and flow of nutrients and stimulates the tissue to repair itself.( www.prolotherapy.com )


In my case, it's chronic inflamation that is causing the problem (sciatica in my case). It's clearly not for me.

I think it's strange that for a torn tendon the orthopedist injects cortizone to reduce the inflamation so the tendon can heal.

Daniel

 

[LightChucker]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Daniel,

That is absolutely true about the inflammation. Furthermore, the prolotherapy doctor will counsel you to not take anti-inflammatory drugs (like Advil, etc.) in order to prolong the inflammation. The point is that if you turn off the inflammation the joint stops healing. So, prolotherapy gets it started again. Some think that acupuncture works in the same way. (I haven't tried that.) However, I have noticed that when my back gets worse, that a few days of inflaming the area with a heating pad will get me going again. I guess that the heat acts like inflammation, which attracts my body's healing system to the area.

My doctor uses a mix of dextrose and Lidocane, but other doctors use other agents; some even use pumice (volcanic rock). From what I read, it doesn't matter much which agent they use; the point is to get the healing process going again. That's where the inflammation comes in.

Before you ask your doctor about prolo, be sure you have done your homework. That way you will know if he knows much about it. If you detect that you know more about it than he does, talk to someone else. After all, it's a lot easier and cheaper for a doctor to jab a single nerve than it is to give prolotherapy. Prolo takes a lot longer to administer.

I studied all the material, and asked all the questions of all my doctors. It was like other health problems I have, like restless legs syndrome, they either know about it or they don't. You can tell the difference by listening to them.

Just like Daniel, in the end you will eventually find what's right for you.

Good luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Chuck

 

[Wylie]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Honestly I am not a big fan of conventional medicine.
I do have nerves that spit out between L1 and L2 that at one point had me in fear of loosing use of my legs or at least any up right movement at all. This goes straight to the syatic and the legs buckle and do not do what I wanted them to do.
The best thing I did for myself was pay for my own treatments at a very old oversea trained acupuntureist ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif spelling). He trained for decades before he practiced and did more for me then the stupid phisical theropy did. They gave me a hernia when they shocked me with the stupid elctromassage thing.

The treatments hurt like &*^% for the rest of the day but the next mornings were great and got better as time went on. Stange thing that acupunture!

 

[kitelights]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

I had two treatments, about 2 weeks apart. Mine was, in part, very successful. As long as I had little activity, I had no pain - big improvement over before the epideral. Mine was L4, 5 and S1. That was about 4 years ago. Since then, I have no insurance and will probably never be able to get it again.

I have good days and bad days. Last July during a particularly bad day while out of town, I was having a very difficult time walking back to my room after a movie and a chiro from out of town saw me and pulled into a parking lot. He performed Korean accupuncture (pressure points on my hand) and I've had less problems since that time than any in the last 5 years.

I sent him an ARC AAA along with a note as a thank you.

I've had several people in different facets of the medical communtity explain to me that in some cases, the nerves "adapt" to changes. After awhile conditions such as stenosis and compressed vertebrae that normally cause pain and nerve impairment become immune to pressure on the nerves. I envision it as the shape of the nerve changing, such as going from round to oval or oblong, but that's just my take on it.

BTW, I had no pain while getting my epidural, but I was more frightened than any other procedure that I've ever had because I knew what could go wrong.

 

[StevieRay]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

[ QUOTE ]
kitelights said:
BTW, I had no pain while getting my epidural, but I was more frightened than any other procedure that I've ever had because I knew what could go wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah,

the Dr. kind of scared me also when he advised me that there was a chance of paralysis and/or death! I couldn't afford to live with the pain, so i was willing to take the chance.

 

[NewBie]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Well, I can say get it treated, and a back is a big deal, so get more than one opinion.

I actually crushed and damaged a nerve, and had I had it treated, the chances are very high my left hand wouldn't be mostly numb. As it stood, they went in and carved a bunch of stuff out to make room, and that helped alot to reduce the constant pain I felt, but the nerve never recovered. Before that, there were days I'd go several days not moving, even to go to the restroom, unable to sleep, or even to think straight, it hurt so bad. Percocet/vicidin and various other pills didn't do much at all. In my case, I held off for two years, which was really dumb, looking back.

Of course, they wanted to fuse things and all that, I said no, as it is common for the disks and stuff above those points to go bad later on. I did give the okay to go rotorooter the nerve canals through the bone and by the disk, and it worked much better than they expected.

 

[dimwatt]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Hmm, it's hard to tell where to begin. It seems like this affects some people in different ways than it does others. Of course the severity of the problem has a lot to do with it.

I injured my low back in mid '96 and was mis diagnosed as having a low back "strain". I was put through the gamut of just about every treatment possible. I had physical therapy numerous times even though I told both the doctors and therapist that it was doing more harm than good. Their reply was. you have to push through the barrier before it will get better. In other words, no pain, no gain. MRI's showed nothing even though I could hardly walk! I had accupuncture, trigger point injections, epidural injections, a tens unit, electrical stimulation, more physical therapy, and steroid injections all with little or no result.

As a last resort, I asked to be refered to a neuro surgeon. After reading my history and looking at the films he was surprised that the other doctors (including another neuro surgeon) didn't order what is known as a thin cut ct scan. Certain parts of your spine are blocked from view in all other films except this ct.(computed tomography)

After having this done and at the next visit, he didn't even get the films up to the light board before exclaiming, "there it is"! He then showed me the area and said he didn't know how I was still walking, much less worked as long as I did!
On one vertebrae, the pars were snapped completely in two and floating around in the muscle. There was nothing except muscle and tendons holding my back somewhat in alignment.

For those not familier with the pars, they are the bony protrusions on each vertebrae that interlock with the set above and the set below keeping your spine from slipping all around. At the end of each one is a facet or almost like a ball and socket that they ride in to keep you stable.

My spine was slipping front to back and side to side and grinding on the nerves 24/7. I worked on my feet for 10 hours or more each day like this for over a year and a half!
Yes, I know what pain is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

After the surgery, I felt much better for about 5 or 6 months. The pain was much more bearable but slowly started to return. Since the surgery I have pretty much repeated everything from before the surgery. One year ago this month, my doctor asked for a rhizotomy. (this is a work comp injury)
Comp approved it and it was scheduled for about three weeks away. The next week is when our famous movie star Governor signed new comp laws into effect. The very next day comp called my doctor and withdrew the approval!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I have been fighting all this time to get something done as the pain has reached a point that it consumes me. Of course depression set in after the surgery failed and this complicates matters even more. I am allergic to morphine so I am on Actiq lollypops that contain Fentanyl. These are what are given to cancer patients near the end when the pain is so great. A 30 day supply is $2,000.00

Comp will pay that much for the meds but will not pay $3,000.00 for a proceedure that will stop the pain for a year or more!!??

Sorry for the life story, but for those of you suffering back problems, get another opinion! If I were to have the therapy that Lightchucker talked about I think it would be more than my back could take as it stays so inflamed and swollen anyway. It might be alright for strained muscles and such but if there is nerve damage or pinched nerves involved I think I would choose another route. The rhizotomy seems to be my best alternative. This is where they do a laproscopic proceedure to burn the end of the nerve so that it can't transmit the pain as it usually does. This is not without risk as pain is the body's natural warning system, without it,one could easily do something that would otherwise hurt and make you stop. In my case, I am so disabled at this point that I don't worry much about that. On an active person that has backaches, I don't think this be recommended.

Once again, sorry for the life story but perhaps someone can see the successes and failures of different things and make any decisions to discuss these different things with their doctor.

If anyone has similar problems and has a question about a certain proceedure, feel free to PM or e mail me. There have been many, many more things done and other dissapointments that I will spare all of you. It's been a long, hard road and there is still a very steep and rough section ahead. I hope I have enough strength (and hope) left to make it to the top.

Arlen....dimwatt

 

[Beamhead]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

dimwatt, I'm with ya man!

Hang in there and "trust your gut"
I have embarked on a 20 year 3 surgery.. Severed nerve... steel rods... scar tissue dislodging state of shock...squashed nerve root...irreversible nerve damage...umpteen procedures misadventure.

And I am still here. Not fun but hey not boring either.
Keep the faith! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[dimwatt]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Thanks Beamhead. My rods and screws are pure Titanium! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

I was told that by working so long I did permanent damage to the nerves. Well, DUH! If I would have had a doctor who knew his stethascope from a hole in the ground I wouldn't have been working! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif This is where the "muscle strain" and "you just have to work through the pain to get better" BS comes in. If I had been properly diagnosed corrective surgery could have taken place before long term damage was done. I honestly think part of it has to do with the horrible work comp system we have in
California! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I think the lesson to be learned from my screwed up case is: GET A SECOND OPINION! OF COURSE IF YOU ARE INJURED IN CALIFORNIA NOW, YOUR SCREWED! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

California now does not pay for or cover pain for which an obvious cause can not be located! That means if you have a broken back as I did and it isn't found because of an incompetant doctor like I had, YOUR'E SCREWED!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

Our movie star Governor who changed the comp laws now wants to change the constitution of the United States to allow citizens who are foreign born to be president! God help us if he succeeds! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon8.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

dimwatt

 

[dimwatt]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

While I'm on a roll here, I neglected to mention the problems from two other on the job injuries. I also ruptured a disc in my neck and had to have a fusion. I now have very little range of motion and nonstop headaches.

Then comes the injury to my shoulders and arms from repetitive motion and lifting. Had carpal tunell surgery on both hands which it is now back as bad or worse than ever.

Torn rotator cuffs with impingement in both shoulders. Surgery done on the right of which it is as bad as ever.

Because of all the upper body trauma I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgea!

Putting these together, I think one can see why a couple of months ago the comp doctor rated me as 100% disabled.

All of this sounds like too much to happen to one individuall and/or is being stretched or fabricated. I assure you that is not the case! If the doctors for the insurance companies say you are 100% it must be so. They make their living (and a good one!) by saving insurance companies money by being conservative in their ratings.

Again, sorry for the life story but thought I would fill in the rest of the picture. I don't quite know why I spilled all of this as I never complained about anything like this all of my life! Doctors have even told me I am dificult to treat because I don't complain enough.

Enough whining already!

Just take a lesson from me and take care of your body!

dimwatt

 

[Beamhead]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

dimwatt,
It is fine for you to vent.
Believe you me I could write a book of what I have endured.
(at this point in my life I try to forget it all)
Constant pain is something that can destroy your perspective, and unless someone has experienced it first hand they have no idea what you are going through. I can relate big time.
I wish there was something I could do for ya... but I am affraid that all I can do is to say keep fighting the good fight and there will be a light(no pun intended)at the end of the tunnel.

And as hard as it may be, try to look at the good things in your life. Lastly don't lose your sense of humor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif

 

[DarkLight]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

I just got a cortisone shot in my AC joint dimwatt, my first excursion into orthopedics.

I am amazed at how much it has helped with red hot briquet I had on my shoulder for the last 4 months.
(Silly me, I thought it would go away.)

 

[pedalinbob]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Blocks can be very helpful, but make sure te MD is experienced--we have seen people that instead of blocking the nerve, they ablated it, or others in the vicinity.

I can tell you, the #1 pain issue in our hospital is chronic back pain, and I hope I never have to go through that.
I always recommend conservative therapy, because when surgical interventions are implemented (hopefully as a last resort), you may find yourself on a downward spiral of pain and disability.

Of course, some do rather well with surgery, so weigh your options carefully.

dimwatt: I am sorry to hear about your plight.
One thing that concerns me is the use of Actiq pops. Fentanyl is an excellent med, but it has a couple of drawbacks: it is expensive, and people acclimate rapidly to it, often requiring frequent dose increases. This is why it is preferred when a person is at end-of-life.

My clinic would probably consider methadone for you (as long as there is no contraindication).
It is fairly inexpensive, much longer acting that fentanyl, and often does a better job of helping with nerve pain than other opioids (most opioids do little for nerve pain, but methadone appears to have some positive effect).

Realize that many docs do not know how to properly utilize methadone, so it isn't used as much as (IMHO) it should be.
Instead, people are placed on bizarre combinations of long and short-acting opioids which is just crazy.

A patient should be on 1 long acting (methadone, oxycontin, fentanyl patch-considered "long acting" because it is a short-acting med given in sustained-release fashion) med scheduled at regular intervals for baseline control, with short acting meds (oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc) taken as needed for breakthrough pain.

Add non-narcotic of choice (Tylenol, Motrin, Naprosyn, etc).

Tricyclics (Elavil) and anticonvulsants (Neurontin) might be helpful if your pain is truly neuropathic.

Anyway, take care!

Bob

 

[dimwatt]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Thanks pedalinbob.

I, too am concerned with the use of Aqtiq as It is addictive and can need to be increased. My doctor and I discuss many issues at least monthly. I have been on everything you can think of. Some effective for a short period and others not effective at all or have bizarre side effects. None completly control the pain. The best I can hope for is something to take the edge off so I can function at a low level as activity escalates the pain to sometimes unendurable levels. I can count on several days out of the month where I am reduced to nothing more than a pain wracked, quivering lump of nerves and flesh. I was raised on a farm to old fashioned parents so seldom even saw a doctor unless something was pretty severe. I have stiched up my own wounds and soaked them in hot salt water so I am capable of dealing with pain and never before let it overcome me!

That pain always subsided as I healed. These injuries do not heal and the pain has slowly escalated to this point. It is still increasing as it seems that each successive month is a little worse than last.

I have been put on Methadone twice and even at higher doses gives me little or no pain relief. As for the Fentanyl patch, they are effective pain controll but cause extreme swelling in my lower extremities, once which was severe enough to require hospitalization for a week.

I am sure that you recall I mentioned being allergic to Morphine, at least in tablet form. We have discussed the pain pump or Rhizotomy but the biggest holdup in my treatment is work comp and their refusal to authorize other options that might be effective. The other meds you mentioned, I graduated through while I was still working.

I recieve phsyciatric counseling on a weekly basis for pain control techniques and severe depression.

Please don't feel that I am cutting you off at every avenue as you have made some very good suggestions and are obviously experienced in the field of pain treatment. I would welcome more input from you. Perhaps it would be best if we were to communicate by PM or e mail as I am somewhat uncomfortable airing my complaints in a public forum. It has been very difficult for me to learn how to open up and discuss my problems with others as I have always kept things inside. Even though it is difficult to do, discussing it openly is beneficial. (To Dr.V. You can say, "I told you so"!)LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks to all who have been there for me. You are the sunshine breaking through the clouds! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif

dimwatt

 

[pedalinbob]

Re: Any of you had a \"nerve block?\"

Hang in there, Dimwatt!

Man, the only thing that really drives me nuts about my job is that sometimes, I just run out of options, and have nothing more to offer a patient in pain.
It is never easy to see someone suffer.

The insurance issues are plain FRUSTRATING!!!

Oh, and don't worry about airing your frustrations, we don't mind!

Take care,
Bob