Apple's "new" battery technology??

[tino_ale]

Hi all,

Apple claims to have developped a "new" battery technology for their notebook. In a promotion video, they say they are li-poly technology, which for start, is not even close to being a new technology.

Anyway. Does anyone know if there actually is anything innovative in Apple's battery design and how this technology is called?? Would be interresting to feed our flashlights with electrons

My opinion? I guess it's pure marketing BS. I've used li-poly in RC models for years and there's nothing new in that. Still I'm wondering if they have come up with something specific, since they claim 5 years lifespan and 1000 cycles.

My best guess to achieve these numbers would be a very conservative charging/discharging strategy like remaining in a rather narrow voltage range. But still, that's not enough to garantee this kind of longevity...

Any info, please share

 

[cryhavok]

I think what they mean is the use of flat LiPo batteries instead of round 18650 type batteries. These flat cells allow you to have more battery per a given volume.

 

[tino_ale]

Yes that is one point, but they actually claim more than just this.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

- 5 years lifespan
- 1000 cycles
- new innovative technology (do they mean lipo? I hope not!)

 

[Bones]

Apple really is claiming 'breakthroughs' in both battery chemistry and charging technology though.

What little detail they're willing to provide seems to be set out on this webpage:

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/

It includes the following (the italics were inserted by me):

The lifespan of a battery is measured in recharges. One recharge is a complete charge and discharge of a battery's energy. A recharge doesn't necessarily occur every time you plug in your notebook; many partial charges can add up to a single full recharge. The typical battery delivers about 200 to 300 recharges before its capacity declines to approximately 80 percent. At that point the battery still works, but its performance is diminished. Thanks to the breakthroughs of advanced chemistry and Adaptive Charging, the battery in the 13-, 15-, and 17-inch MacBook Pro can go through up to 1000 recharges before it reaches 80 percent of its original capacity — nearly three times the lifespan of typical notebook batteries.

It's notable that in conjunction with utilizing lithium-polymer instead of cylindrical cells, they have also 'embedded' the battery, which means it's no longer removable, and will probably have to be serviced by Apple ...

 

[vali]

I think this link is the correct one : http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/

If I understand correctly they did propietary square size lipo batteries that CANNOT be removed unless you send it to an Apple Service Provider. Yes, a great leap forwad... for apple.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Not having a removeable battery is just lame. Besides needing to send it back for service, people on long trips have to resort to another plugin power source to augment. I see no good consumer oriented reason for them to have this policy. Users cannot be without their computer while it gets sent in for battery swap.

 

[csshih]

they've had that information up ever since they first announced the first macbook pro... more junk from the marketing department..
well.. the general public falls for it..

ironic, considering that apple has been using LiPos in their pmps for a pretty long time.

 

[h2xblive]

Not having a removeable battery is just lame. Besides needing to send it back for service, people on long trips have to resort to another plugin power source to augment. I see no good consumer oriented reason for them to have this policy. Users cannot be without their computer while it gets sent in for battery swap.

That's true, but I don't think Apple expects most users to be still using their MacBook Pros by the time their built in battery needs replacement. By then, most would have bought a new laptop.

 

[N467RX]

The battery is actually removable, it's not supposed to, but you can remove it. It's already been proven.

Apple is very childish when it comes to maintenance. When I had a liquid spill on my 1 month old MBP Unibody I drove to the Apple Store (2 hours away) and the manager simply told me that they couldn't do anything about spills, I should just go home and wait for the computer to die (yeah sure, and pay another $2500 for a new one). I came home and cleaned it by myself. The only issue was that the battery wasn't recognized, but I just found out that the charge indicator was damaged and that was preventing the system from recognizing it. Fixed it and now it works, and I have 2 batteries now.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Apple is taking liberties with their scope of the "the battery". To us, it means everything inside the cell body, up to and including protection circuits. To them, it means the entire pack, up to and including the complete battery management system. There are two innovations here, neither of which are chemistry (the first thing we think of as "battery technology"):

Shape: Removable battery packs in laptops used to be essential, especially for business travelers. Flights were coast to coast and you'd only get 1-2 hours per pack. These days, a Mac laptop running such a (new) pack starts at 4 hours, itself more than a typical leg between hub/stop overs. Even so, the limit of 4 hours comes from the limited arrangements and packaging required by cylindrical cells (unlike flashlights, computers tend to be square). So borrowing a page from iPod design, they've changed to square cells, increasing available space to boost pack life to 7 hours.

Charging: Going back to what we know of charge/discharge C (others here can explain this better than I), the rate of energy transfer effects how stressed a cells gets. And more stress = more wear & tear. Soften the process to be more gentle with the cell and it will last longer.

Its been 10 years since I bought a second battery for a Mac laptop, this will be major boost. And as with iPods, it won't be impossible to change the battery, just not something you'll want to do mid flight.

 

[tino_ale]

Guys I agree with you about the non-swappable battery choice, I find it sucks big time, but it's a choice that can always be debated and my post is more about did they really developped a new battery type.

If all they did is go with lipo chemistry (not even close to being "new"), use square cells (AFAIK all lipo cells are square), and discover that individual cell monitorig exist, well I'm disappointed.

I can see how you can improve lipo cycles life. Do not charge up to 4.2V (stop before, maybe at 4.1V), take a good margin in max discharge (not below 80% of total capacity), then you have a reduced capacity but a much larger number of cycles.

Still, 1000 cycles does sound too high even with such a charging strategy.

At last, no matter what charge/discharge strategy is implemented, I do not see how they can claim a 5 years lifespan with lipo chemistry. They wear no matter if you use them or not, and they wear as fast as they spend time fully charge and/or at warm temperature. Which are both true on a laptop.

I hoped they had made a real breakthrough in chemistry, and offer both the advantages of A123 system technology (very rugged, super long cycle and time lifespan) and lipo chemistry (high energy dentisy)...

Not having a removeable battery is just lame. Besides needing to send it back for service, people on long trips have to resort to another plugin power source to augment. I see no good consumer oriented reason for them to have this policy. Users cannot be without their computer while it gets sent in for battery swap.

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

I remember seeing a scatter plot or some other sort of graph at some point. It graphed the amount of money spent on advertising/propaganda/public relations and how consumers saw them. Guess who the top two were?

..........






If you guessed Bose and Apple, you were right! In the business world, perception is key. If you tell millions of people you developed a "brand new" battery technology, 95% of them will never question you. The other 5% are at CPF.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

I think this link is the correct one : http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/

If I understand correctly they did propietary square size lipo batteries that CANNOT be removed unless you send it to an Apple Service Provider. Yes, a great leap forwad... for apple.

I don't have a new MBP to play with (mine is from December 2008), but my experience with Apple's "non-removable" batteries is that removal requires a screwdriver or other common tool instead of simply manipulating a latch. The benefit is that volume need not be wasted providing redundant protection for the battery, the protection is provided by the external case of the gadget (e.g. laptop, iPod, etc.) itself.

A lot of Apple products that supposedly cannot be upgraded by the user are actually easily upgraded without any special skills, only readily available instructions.

 

[divine]

They've been using user replaceable lipo cells in cell phones for years. I find it hard to believe that it isn't removable.

 

[vali]

According to the link I posted the battery is inside the case and they removed the battery enclosure and the bay to attach the battery. It can be I am wrong and the text is misleading, but if they are no designed to be removable you will probably cant find where to buy a replacement, thus you need to send them the notebook. If you are OOW the bill can be a bit (user loose, apple win).

 

[csshih]

hmm, i wonder if giant replacement LiPo packs are going to come out.. like those ipod replacement batts you can get everywhere online.

sounds dangerous with giant packs..

 

[wildstar87]

Meh.. Typical Apple, make it look really "cool" and have lots of marchitecture, charge through the nose for it, then screw the customer when it needs replacing.

I don't feel sorry for people who buy their stuff, then complain how pricey it is, and how much they have to pay to replace batteries. Why it's become such a pheonomenon in the last few years, I will never know.

There must be ALOT of shallow people out there, style over substance seems to be the trend.

 

[jar3ds]

thats why verizon wireless didn't take the iphone... they require a removable battery...

apple makes some good stuff... but some of their choices make me question :thinking:

 

[tino_ale]

I still wonder : if it's just a "regular" lipo battery, how can they claim this kind of cycle numbers and durability (5 years of normal use) ???

Lipo do NOT last this long and making such claim is like asking for a huge slap

No doubt Apple likes doubtous marketing claims but this one would be a big mistake if there is nothing real behind

 

[wildstar87]

Why not, they have BLATANTLY lied before, like the completely doctored G5 benchmarks a few years back. As long as no one holds their feet to the fire they can get away with it. Problem is, people buying Apple will let them get away with it, because they are "cool", and people who know better, well... They know better..