ARC-AA with 8mm white led

[djpark]

This posting is related to my previous posting "ARC-AAA with 8mm white led".

I didn't realize that my ARC-AAA-8mm was first, so I didn't mind being the first again with ARC-AA-8mm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif So here is my experience to bring ARC-AA with 8mm white led from ISP.

First, I started with preparing the heads.

The first ARC-AAA-8mm at left is put to rest by taking the heart (Micro Converter) out of it and now it is in ARC-AA-8mm.

The crimp of ARC-AA is really short and tight compared to AAA and I had to virtually break it off. Pulling the led and circuit assembly from AA head was not that difficult. I read a thread recommending the oven, LMASAP mentioned liquified nitrogen. But I put it in the boiling water through indirect heat transfer via water. When the epoxy was a little softer, lift the board from behind through two holes a little, then push the led from the front. Anybody can guess if it is still working?

I used 7mm (the biggest I had) drill bit to make the main hole, but the widening another 1mm was really painful process. It would be better to start with 8mm drill bit.

AA head is a lot deeper than AAA head and led can hide within the reflector without jutting out like AAA. Also I had luxury to adjust the height of led since there were more room within the head (same diameter but deeper). Now I get to see some light bounced back from the reflector.

AA head in the pic above is already completed set together with other blank AAA-8mm heads, below is bottom view with Micro Converter in it. MC is attached with a 1/4 round wire along the edge to make it a tight fit and also to be ground connection.

I didn't crimp it since I know that I will never be satisfied with what I have and later try to improve the circuit. The original battery retainer ring in the pic is not fiting well, I find that AAA retainer fits better.

Blow and suck test reveals that it is not waterproof (due to irregular round of the hole, try 8mm drill bit to get better fit). But when put into the casing with o-ring, I can hardly suck air from it. So can I say "water-resistant"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Put it into the tube with the battery and behold, "Thy light hast come!".

Beamshot at 1m from the wall. Left is a standard ARC-AAA-P, right is ARC-AA-8mm.

Beamshot at 2m from the wall. Left is a standard ARC-AAA-P, right is ARC-AA-8mm. I may have accidently touch the AAA-P to point towards right, so the beam could have been swallowed by AA-8mm.

This time, I am using a new led but I didn't measure the current flow to led, even I did, the value wouldn't be accurate. The current draw from a fresh AA is 0.36A (tested with 5 batteries with the same result).

Now I have a lux meter and this is the meter reading at the brightest spot.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Model / Distance 0.5m 1m 2m 3m
---------------- ---- -- -- --
ARC-AA-8mm/ISP 116 32 9 5
ARC-AAA-P 49 13 4 2
ARC-AAA-S 64 20 5 3
ARC-AAA-5mm/ISP 85 24 7 4
</pre><hr />

Yes, my AAA-S is a lot brighter than AAA-P, even other AAA-S in my possession are also brighter. But the real gem is 5mm white from ISP.

-- DJP

 

[Badbeams3]

To me the 8mm makes more sense in the AA. Very nice!

Ken

 

[Mattman]

I agree, that seems like the next logical step in the AA line and looks to be a better fit than in the AAA.

That 5mm ISP looks like a keeper. Is the runtime comparable to the nichia? If so, that's a heck of a nice trade-up.

 

[jtice]

Very nice, that must be really nice.
I was impressed with my Stock Arc AA.

You need to get ahold of an Arc AA head auction, and make 100 of these. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Moat]

Excellent, DJP!! Proof of concept for Mr. Gransee! Man, I sure like the looks of that beam... whiter, broader, evenly illuminated, brighter - ideal for the AA, IMO (or any pocket light, for that matter).

Nice job! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

I am definitely geeked about the 8mm's potential.

Are you running the ISP 5mm Arc AAA with the Arc's original circuit? Those lux readings sure look impressive... maybe the ISP 5mm's have a lower Vf, and it's quite a bit overdriven (compared to the Arc's original Nichia)?

Bob

 

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]
Moat5606 said:
Excellent, DJP!! Proof of concept for Mr. Gransee! Man, I sure like the looks of that beam... whiter, broader, evenly illuminated, brighter - ideal for the AA, IMO (or any pocket light, for that matter).

Nice job! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

I am definitely geeked about the 8mm's potential.

Are you running the ISP 5mm Arc AAA with the Arc's original circuit? Those lux readings sure look impressive... maybe the ISP 5mm's have a lower Vf, and it's quite a bit overdriven (compared to the Arc's original Nichia)?

Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

The 5mm white from ISP is running on the ARC-AAA board from dpr. Its data sheet says Vf=3.6V, If=20mA, 8000mcd and 20 degree viewing angle. So when overdriven in AAA, ???mcd?

I like the even warm tint of the 5mm, slightly looking greenish compared to super white 8mm. I believe that the narrow angle is the key to the farther throw than Nichia 5mm.

-- DJP

 

[BentHeadTX]

I hope Peter is reading this thread, the 8mm AA would be a must have. For current Arc AA owners, it would be great to have a brighter version. For the AAA fans, moving to an Arc AA would make a lot of sense.
Awesome mod, wish I could get one!

 

[Mattman]

I know that everyone's needs are different, but I think that an 8mm AA model would be a perfect step up from the AAA and it would actually give me a reason to pick up my AA instead of my AAA. As it is, I just grab the tiny AAA instead. It's OK by me if the run time drops down to AAA levels as long as the 8mm performs like a champ. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[stockwiz]

This is sweet. If arc used the 8 mm LED it would set itself above and beyond the competition. I'd buy one.

 

[dtlent]

Where did you get the 5 mm ISP from?

When you took your ARC AAA head apart, could you still reuse the board?

And ARC AAA board are available from who?

 

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]
dtlent said:
Where did you get the 5 mm ISP from?

When you took your ARC AAA head apart, could you still reuse the board?

And ARC AAA board are available from who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I got the 5mm leds from ISP, Korea (manufacturer) together with 8mm. You can contach them at their web or email to [email protected].

But if you are thinking of getting a small qty, it would be easier to get from hchhon on b/s/t.

I have not mastered the skill to remove the board from the head. I throw it into the near boiling water to soften the epoxy. I see the storage temperature of the most semiconductors are over 100 degree celcious (even 150), so I presume it would be ok. If you remove the board carefully (by pushing the led from the top, not pulling the board from the bottom) it may work.

Test the board after cool down, and carefully start grinding the top portion to expose the complete led and the leads, so it can be replaced. There is an o-ring embedded on the top of the epoxy and you may want to use it back.

ISP 5mm is slightly thicker than those used in Arc-AAA, so you will also need to enlarge the whole slightly.

CPFer Performance_Plus used to sell the board, but I think he has run out by now. You can check here.

-- DJP

 

[bigmikey]

Sorry to butt in, but what is the difference between the 5 MM and the 8 MM?, is it just size difference?, anyway, that looks awesome. How much would it cost to have someone do that mod?, on my Arc AAA?..

 

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]
bigmikey said:
Sorry to butt in, but what is the difference between the 5 MM and the 8 MM?, is it just size difference?, anyway, that looks awesome. How much would it cost to have someone do that mod?, on my Arc AAA?..

[/ QUOTE ]

8mm has 4 dies in it, so naturally brighter and whiter than 5mm. To really need to shine out, you need to drive it at 100mA.

To mod Arc-AA or AAA, you don't need a special tool, you can use 7.5mm drill bit and enlarge a bit further after pooling out the led assembly. But there isn't many booster board which will drive 100mA or more to the led which can fit within the AA/AAA head size other than MJ Micro Converter which cost $27 at Sandwich Shoppe.

Someone may be able to make a tiny board using Zetex or other regulator chip.

-- DJP

 

[paulr]

The CMG Ultra and the more recent CMG Infinities use a Zetec-based converter capable of driving a Luxeon. So they might be a good candidate to use the 8mm led.

 

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]
paulr said:
The CMG Ultra and the more recent CMG Infinities use a Zetec-based converter capable of driving a Luxeon. So they might be a good candidate to use the 8mm led.

[/ QUOTE ]

The key point is "to get the converter/led assembly out of the head in a working condition" and "remove the epoxy" to modify it without damaging it.

Perhaps, I will try it some time later though personally I don't quite like the shape.

-- DJP

 

[VidPro]

i will toss in some quick info here.
at 100 the 8mm 4x parellel is likely to fail.
been testing them at that, and have lost 2 of 15 so far.
testing them for many hours.

just thought i would point out that running it at 80 is probably perfect.
when it failed , for some reason moving the legs or tapping on it makes it work again, also cooling it works for a while, but dead is dead.
in my opinion the 8mm is a great tool, much easier assebly of a group than a bunch of 5s.

i have only been testing them for days, but i thought i would just toss that in, because you have done well, and knowing that overclocking is gonna suck, it might help your satisfaction level

 

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]
VidPro said:
i will toss in some quick info here.
at 100 the 8mm 4x parellel is likely to fail.
been testing them at that, and have lost 2 of 15 so far.
testing them for many hours.

just thought i would point out that running it at 80 is probably perfect.
when it failed , for some reason moving the legs or tapping on it makes it work again, also cooling it works for a while, but dead is dead.
in my opinion the 8mm is a great tool, much easier assebly of a group than a bunch of 5s.

i have only been testing them for days, but i thought i would just toss that in, because you have done well, and knowing that overclocking is gonna suck, it might help your satisfaction level

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info, but I have a different idea.

8mm ISP led won't die at 100mA, over 200mA may kill, though. 100mA is the spec current drive and when it is driven 150mA, it gives very nice bright light. In fact my new AAA mod is running on 160mA and I use it everyday without a problem, it blows away the 80mA AA-8mm.

Your problem is most likely caused by the weakened positive led lead due to the excessive force, the moving leg helping sometimes suggest so. Most 8mm I killed died in this manner.

I am no fan of overclocking, but I tend to overdrive the small leds, 80mA for 5mm and 150mA for 8mm and 600mA for Luxeon-1W.

Another thing to note about this 8mm is that the current to led shoots up sharply near rated Vf. If you are not careful enough, you can easily fry it. If the led gets very bright and then getting dimmer, you know you cooked one.

Wish you a good luck with 8mm.

-- dj

 

[VidPro]

finally i get back here.
you were right, it was broken.

also after torturing some of them, some of them lost some of thier parellels,
because i group at 10.6 and 14.4 this made a total disaster.
some of them were 1 parellel still running, some 2 some 3, and some 4. (some elements in them were fried)
i had to group them by MW at a voltage, and series parellel them to match the power they were then using.

whatda ya expect from a geek like me

 

[djpark]

I tortured them, too. Most of them died at the current above 300mA in a few seconds.

I am testing a new mod Arc-AA-8mm running at 200mA with fresh battery meant for H&M contest. Still trying to make some enhancement before submitting.

Have a nice day!

 

[Glenn]

Mattman said:

"I know that everyone's needs are different, but I think that an 8mm AA model would be a perfect step up from the AAA and it would actually give me a reason to pick up my AA instead of my AAA. As it is, I just grab the tiny AAA instead. It's OK by me if the run time drops down to AAA levels as long as the 8mm performs like a champ."

I AGREE !!
At this point I do not see any reason to get an ARC AA when my smaller AAA is just as bright

Glenn